How should we address people who identify as transgender?

[PRmerger]

I will add that this appears more like role playing and acting out - then an actual gender issue

What does? A man who thinks he’s a woman?

Men who think they’re women are actually role playing?

I suspect you don’t mean that, but you actually only mean a man who thinks he’s a woman and a 6 yr old…

but see how it works for my point as well?

 

[Lynxdk]

Actually I know where my confusion here is coming from.
A refusal to address questions with any more then a claim to authority I neither acknowledge or recognize.

“God told me” is not going to cut it when I have God telling me through his church something different.

You are Catholic? Then Obey Papa Francis, and don’t make up your own rules. I was speaking to the Elder with what you quoted, so that cup was not yours to pick up.

Apologies for any misunderstandings.

I’m still trying to understand the forum rules, so please bear with me. I should have a computer to use in a couple of hours.

 

[on_the_hill]

Right.

But it’s curious that you didn’t have that attitude with the man who thinks he’s a woman and a 6 yr old. You said he had psychosis.

And you presumably didn’t need to be a psychiatrist to determine that.

I think the question is bigger than what we call them.

My question is: if that is how they identify, do we embrace this identification?

A 52 year old man who thinks he’s a 6 year old girl is more mentally ill than most.

What do we call them? To their faces we call them whatever they want to be called. When they’re not around we raise an eyebrow and say, “That guy’s nuts.”

What else can we say?

 

[PRmerger]

A 52 year old man who thinks he’s a 6 year old girl is more mentally ill than most.

So we can call this person mentally ill, but not a man who thinks he’s a woman?

What do we call them? To their faces we call them whatever they want to be called. When they’re not around we raise an eyebrow and say, “That guy’s nuts.”

What else can we say?

Is it the right thing to do for a man who thinks he’s a woman, too (but identifies with his own actual age?)?

 

[PRmerger]

You are Catholic? Then Obey Papa Francis, and don’t make up your own rules. I was speaking to the Elder with what you quoted, so that cup was not yours to pick up.

Apologies for any misunderstandings.

I’m still trying to understand the forum rules, so please bear with me. I should have a computer to use in a couple of hours.

Yeah–one of the forum rules you should get to know really quickly is that this is a FORUM, which means that ALL MEMBERS can respond to ALL POSTS, even if it’s not specifically addressed to them.

There is no such thing here as “that cup was not yours to pick up”.

 

[Lynxdk]

Yeah–one of the forum rules you should get to know really quickly is that this is a FORUM, which means that ALL MEMBERS can respond to ALL POSTS, even if it’s not specifically addressed to them.

There is no such thing here as “that cup was not yours to pick up”.

I just would like People to consider treating others as they would like to be treated, instead of how it seems, in my experience, being treated as others have been treating Them, without respecting that God leads us to God.

Thank you for correcting me. I have read the rules now, and am exiting this thread.

Peace =)

 

[on_the_hill]

So we can call this person mentally ill, but not a man who thinks he’s a woman?

Is it the right thing to do for a man who thinks he’s a woman, too (but identifies with his own actual age?)?

In my opinion, people who believe themselves to be the opposite sex are searching for ways to resolve emotional/psychological irregularities. Or maybe it’s something they truly enjoy doing.

I mean, it’s not a big deal if someone gets a tattoo. It’s not a big deal if someone gets two or three tattoos. But when someone covers himself or herself from head to toe with tattoos, that person’s got a problem.

Humanity exists on spectrums. Intelligence is on a spectrum. Body weight is on a spectrum. Mental health is on a spectrum. Sexual attractions are on a spectrum. “Gender identity” is on a spectrum. Mechanical aptitude is on a spectrum. Artistic ability is on a spectrum.

The closer we get to a “tipping point” the fuzzier it gets. A 52 year old man who thinks he’s a 6 year old girl is at a far end of the spectrum. John Wayne would be at the opposite side of the spectrum.

There’s no way to p(name removed by moderator)oint the inflection point other than to basically poll the people who are most knowledgeable about that particular spectrum.

 

[PRmerger]

In my opinion, people who believe themselves to be the opposite sex are searching for ways to resolve emotional/psychological irregularities. Or maybe it’s something they truly enjoy doing.

I mean, it’s not a big deal if someone gets a tattoo. It’s not a big deal if someone gets two or three tattoos. But when someone covers himself or herself from head to toe with tattoos, that person’s got a problem.

Humanity exists on spectrums. Intelligence is on a spectrum. Body weight is on a spectrum. Mental health is on a spectrum. Sexual attractions are on a spectrum. “Gender identity” is on a spectrum. Mechanical aptitude is on a spectrum. Artistic ability is on a spectrum.

The closer we get to a “tipping point” the fuzzier it gets. A 52 year old man who thinks he’s a 6 year old girl is at a far end of the spectrum. John Wayne would be at the opposite side of the spectrum.

There’s no way to p(name removed by moderator)oint the inflection point other than to basically poll the people who are most knowledgeable about that particular spectrum.

Or…one could be consistent and say: when you identify as something you clearly are NOT, it is a mercy and a charity not to confirm you in this charade.

Whether it’s a man thinking he’s a woman.
Or a 52 year old man thinking he’s 6.
Or a woman who’s perfectly able to walk thinking she can’t walk.
Or a woman who can see who thinks she should have been born blind.

All the same.

 

[Thorolfr]

Or…one could be consistent and say: when you identify as something you clearly are NOT, it is a mercy and a charity not to confirm you in this charade.

Whether it’s a man thinking he’s a woman.
Or a 52 year old man thinking he’s 6.
Or a woman who’s perfectly able to walk thinking she can’t walk.
Or a woman who can see who thinks she should have been born blind.

All the same.

How do you know that they’re all the same? There is evidence for a biological basis for gender identity. We don’t know that that is true in these other cases.

According to a review article in* Endocrine Practice*, there is increasing evidence of a biological basis for gender identity that may change physicians’ perspective on transgender medicine and improve health care for these patients.

sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150213112317.htm

 

[PRmerger]

How do you know that they’re all the same? There is evidence for a biological basis for gender identity. We don’t know that that that is true in these other cases.

Why should that matter?

Perhaps in a few years there may be some evidence for a biological basis for transablism, and transagism.

And even if there isn’t, there’s clearly a psychological basis for gender identity, transablism and transagism.

 

[Thorolfr]

And even if there isn’t, there’s clearly a psychological basis for gender identity, transablism and transagism.

I don’t have a very high opinion of psychology and don’t consider it to be a real science. It’s kind of a cliche, but I’ve been to a psychologist before, and after you tell them what is bothering you, they really do say mostly useless things like, “And how does that make you feel?”

 

[PRmerger]

I don’t have a very high opinion of psychology and don’t consider it to be a real science. It’s kind of a cliche, but I’ve been to a psychologist before, and after you tell them what is bothering you, they really do say mostly useless things like, “And how does that make you feel?”

Well! Then how would you respond to a person who says he doesn’t have a high opinion of the biological sciences?

 

[vz71]

I would respond that it is simply reality.
We don’t get to pick what is real. We simply have to live with it.

If one chooses to ignore reality, they have a psychological problem that must be dealt with.

 

[Thorolfr]

Well! Then how would you respond to a person who says he doesn’t have a high opinion of the biological sciences?

Such a person must not go to medical doctors, have benefited from or realized the benefits of medications such as aspirin for headaches or inhalers for asthma or antibiotics such as penicillin for bacterial infections or isoniazid for TB or vaccinations for other deadly diseases, etc. All of those are based on the biological sciences. But from psychologists we get some version of “And how did that make you feel?”

 

[PRmerger]

Such a person must not go to medical doctors, have benefited from or realized the benefits of medications such as aspirin for headaches or inhalers for asthma or antibiotics such as penicillin for bacterial infections or isoniazid for TB or vaccinations for other deadly diseases, etc. All of those are based on the biological sciences.

And you use psychology too, then, while dismissing psychology.

So why the double standard?

 

[Thorolfr]

And you use psychology too, then, while dismissing psychology.

So why the double standard?

Yes, I’ve gone a few times in my life to a psychologist but have never gone for more than one or two sessions before I realized what a waste of time it was (at least for me) and didn’t go back.

 

[PRmerger]

Yes, I’ve gone a few times in my life to a psychologist but have never gone for more than one or two sessions before I realized what a waste of time it was (at least for me) and didn’t go back.

No matter. You use psychology.

So it’s hypocritical to say you reject psychology as a science.

 

[Thorolfr]

No matter. You use psychology.

So it’s hypocritical to say you reject psychology as a science.

The two times I’ve gone briefly to a psychologist in more than 50 years, I got no useful help at all and ended up resolving the issue I went to him/her on my own. The last time I went, the psychologist was a former nun who wanted me to do an Enneagram. I suspect that she did Enneagrams on all her patients. I didn’t go back after I read about it since it sounds like a bunch of baloney:

The Enneagram of Personality, or simply the Enneagram (from the Greek words ἐννέα [ennea, meaning “nine”] and γράμμα [gramma, meaning something “written” or “drawn”[1]]), is a model of human personality which is principally understood and taught as a typology of nine interconnected personality types. Although the origins and history of many of the ideas and theories associated with the Enneagram of Personality are a matter of dispute, contemporary Enneagram understandings are principally derived from the teachings of Oscar Ichazo and Claudio Naranjo…

The Enneagram has been criticized as being pseudoscience and subject to interpretation, making it difficult to test or validate scientifically[5] and as “an assessment method of no demonstrated reliability or validity”.[6] The skeptic Robert Todd Carroll has characterized the Enneagram as an example of a pseudoscientific theory that “can’t be tested because they are so vague and malleable that anything relevant can be shoehorned to fit the theory”.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enneagram_of_Personality

 

[PRmerger]

I suspect that she did Enneagrams on all her patients.

You see what you did there?

You just used psychology.

So it’s curious to see you use psychology in making discernments about reality while also claiming it’s not a legitimate epistemology.