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Xantippe
Guest
I’ve told my husband that I think he should remarry in the case of my untimely demise, but that I’d like a 1-year mourning. One doesn’t want to feel easily replaceable.
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Bookcat
Guest
A person is free to marry another when ones spouse dies.
*Certainly *-- normally one ought not start dating say the funeral director at the funeral…or some guy one met at the funeral…going out for drinks that night!
I can understand that 2 months is rather short time…the family should not accuse her of anything unseemly - but I can understand that 2 months can seem rather short.
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Bookcat
Guest
The need to grieve is certainly important and the good of the family - his family etc ought to be taken into consideration. Time is important.
But having said that:
St. (Sir) Thomas More - lost his young wife (married only 6 years) - and with four very young children to care for -what did he do? He married the best woman available - a widower (she was older than he who was 33 -she was 40). He obtained the needed dispensation for a speedy marriage - he was known of course for his holiness so there was nothing unseemly here - and was married quickly and the children had a new mother to care for them —
What was the time frame? (contrary to advice of friends and custom):
Within 30 days.
See “A Portrait of Courage” scepterpublishers.org/product/index.php?FULL=139
But having said that:
St. (Sir) Thomas More - lost his young wife (married only 6 years) - and with four very young children to care for -what did he do? He married the best woman available - a widower (she was older than he who was 33 -she was 40). He obtained the needed dispensation for a speedy marriage - he was known of course for his holiness so there was nothing unseemly here - and was married quickly and the children had a new mother to care for them —
What was the time frame? (contrary to advice of friends and custom):
Within 30 days.
See “A Portrait of Courage” scepterpublishers.org/product/index.php?FULL=139
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Bookcat
Guest
(My wife will follow the course set by many early Christians …not entering into a second marriage).
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Bookcat
Guest
The need to grieve is certainly important and the good of the family - his family etc ought to be taken into consideration. Time is important.
But having said that:
St. (Sir) Thomas More - lost his young wife (married only 6 years) - and with four very young children to care for -what could he do? What did he do in fact to meet this need? He married the best woman available - a widower (she was older than he who was 33 -she was 40) (he knew Alice well from working with her late husband). He obtained the needed dispensation for a speedy marriage - he was known of course for his holiness so there was nothing unseemly here - and was married quickly and the children had a new mother to care for them —
What was the time frame? --that that new marriage took place that is --(contrary to advice of friends and custom):
Within 30 days.
See “A Portrait of Courage” scepterpublishers.org/product/index.php?FULL=139
But having said that:
St. (Sir) Thomas More - lost his young wife (married only 6 years) - and with four very young children to care for -what could he do? What did he do in fact to meet this need? He married the best woman available - a widower (she was older than he who was 33 -she was 40) (he knew Alice well from working with her late husband). He obtained the needed dispensation for a speedy marriage - he was known of course for his holiness so there was nothing unseemly here - and was married quickly and the children had a new mother to care for them —
What was the time frame? --that that new marriage took place that is --(contrary to advice of friends and custom):
Within 30 days.
See “A Portrait of Courage” scepterpublishers.org/product/index.php?FULL=139
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mommamaree
Guest
This is likely the only viable path for myself should I become widowed, too. I cannot imagine even attempting to search for a faithful Catholic man who would consider marrying a widow with five children to raise. That sounds like an impossibility.
The young widow in the OP’s question is extremely vulnerable right now. I am concerned that the gentleman who would consent to date her so soon after her loss might have ulterior motives and might be taking advantage of her loneliness and grief. The Bible tells us of God’s special concern for widows and orphans. I would think that those who take advantage of such vulnerable “least of these” will have some serious consequences in the next life. I am pretty sure that is one of the sins that cry out to heaven. I sincerely hope that such is not occurring in this situation.
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Xantippe
Guest
I think a lot of women find the idea of remarrying distasteful. I certainly do, but I suppose one’s mind might change as circumstances changed.
mommamaree said:
“I cannot imagine even attempting to search for a faithful Catholic man who would consider marrying a widow with five children to raise. That sounds like an impossibility.”
Not for an older widow with children raised, or mostly raised.
“The young widow in the OP’s question is extremely vulnerable right now. I am concerned that the gentleman who would consent to date her so soon after her loss might have ulterior motives and might be taking advantage of her loneliness and grief.”
Yes! Where there is a widow, there is often a nice fat life insurance policy.
I know from listening to Dave Ramsey that widows are often immediately surrounded by “helpful” financial advisers.
It might do a lot of good to find a reputable, conservative financial counselor to give her advice about the financial side of her situation.
mommamaree said:
“I cannot imagine even attempting to search for a faithful Catholic man who would consider marrying a widow with five children to raise. That sounds like an impossibility.”
Not for an older widow with children raised, or mostly raised.
“The young widow in the OP’s question is extremely vulnerable right now. I am concerned that the gentleman who would consent to date her so soon after her loss might have ulterior motives and might be taking advantage of her loneliness and grief.”
Yes! Where there is a widow, there is often a nice fat life insurance policy.
I know from listening to Dave Ramsey that widows are often immediately surrounded by “helpful” financial advisers.
It might do a lot of good to find a reputable, conservative financial counselor to give her advice about the financial side of her situation.
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Bookcat
Guest
Correction - my wife may be open to another marriage (will have to make sure I do not go first! --darn exercise
) but noted should does not think she would seek such . Especially since we have small children. But she would also be concerned how the person would be with the children…As to your note of concern -yes such is a very vulnerable time. Caution and good counsel is needful!
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Joie_de_Vivre
Guest
St. More seems to have remarried for very practical reasons; there is no way St. Thomas More could raise his children and fulfill his job as undersheriff by himself.
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sscott
Guest
I’m sorry if I offended anyone in this thread. My take on the situation was that as an acquaintance, her term, it is not her place to seek Catholic Church’s take on the woman’s behavior. In addition, I’m sure the widow didn’t ask for an update on church doctrine. I have also read enough of Michelle Arnold’s posts to know that when someone complains that a person is receiving the Eucharist unworthily, she tells the writer to pay more attention to their own sins and less to the other person’s.
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EasterJoy
Guest
In the early Church, a widow was either remarried, supported by her surviving family, or “enrolled” as a widow because she had been left alone in the world. All things considered, St. Paul thought remarriage the best route for young widows: “I would like younger widows to marry, have children, and manage a home, so as to give the adversary no pretext for maligning us.” 1 Tim. 5:14
Obviously, there was a time when widows did not have the luxury of waiting a year to marry for the sake of “decency,” because they and their children would have incurred so much hardship. The poor did not have the luxury to mourn.
This woman may have her own private modern-day reasons why she does not have the luxury to mourn alone. In any event, she is not only free to allow herself to be courted, but free to marry. If she acts rashly and marries too much in haste, she will be the one who gets to repent at her leisure. As it is, she has not announced an engagement, let alone set a date.
Why is it someone else’s business to decide she has to be lonely for some proscribed period of time before she accepts male companionship? She ought to be left alone about it until the time when she asks for an outside opinion. The freedom to choose who we will or will not consult about our choices is only as much as any of us want for ourselves, is it not? Until she sins, she ought to be left to ask for advice and admonishment.
Obviously, there was a time when widows did not have the luxury of waiting a year to marry for the sake of “decency,” because they and their children would have incurred so much hardship. The poor did not have the luxury to mourn.
This woman may have her own private modern-day reasons why she does not have the luxury to mourn alone. In any event, she is not only free to allow herself to be courted, but free to marry. If she acts rashly and marries too much in haste, she will be the one who gets to repent at her leisure. As it is, she has not announced an engagement, let alone set a date.
Why is it someone else’s business to decide she has to be lonely for some proscribed period of time before she accepts male companionship? She ought to be left alone about it until the time when she asks for an outside opinion. The freedom to choose who we will or will not consult about our choices is only as much as any of us want for ourselves, is it not? Until she sins, she ought to be left to ask for advice and admonishment.
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tafan
Guest
To those who are critical of two months and dating, I doubt they have experienced the extreme loneliness which follows the death of a very-much loved spouse. As a wise person told me, the desire for renewed companionship and a second marriage is not the sign if lack if love for a deceased spouse, or a weak first marriage; it’s just the opposite. It’s a sign that one had a true live for their deceased spouse and a great marriage and hence realizes it can happen again.
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Skye_Ariel
Guest
I didn’t mean to sound cruel or judgmental, it’s just that I can’t wrap my brain around someone moving on so soon. It seems unnatural. He husband just died, how can she just move on so soon? Do you realize how short 2 months is? How can the children even grieve or come to terms with what has happened if daddy has been replaced so soon. Won’t that confuse them and do more harm than good?
I’m trying to say it in the nicest way possible, not trying to be mean.
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Xantippe
Guest
Skye_Ariel said:
“I didn’t mean to sound cruel or judgmental, it’s just that I can’t wrap my brain around someone moving on so soon. It seems unnatural. He husband just died, how can she just move on so soon? Do you realize how short 2 months is? How can the children even grieve or come to terms with what has happened if daddy has been replaced so soon. Won’t that confuse them and do more harm than good?”
There are some really weird and counterproductive reactions to grief.
One I’ve heard of is widows or widowers suddenly going on reckless spending sprees.
nbcnews.com/id/8288634/ns/msnbc-morning_joe/t/widow-defends-spending-spree/#.U1mIo6hX-uY
That’s why it’s so important to slow down and have good counsel after a loss.
“I didn’t mean to sound cruel or judgmental, it’s just that I can’t wrap my brain around someone moving on so soon. It seems unnatural. He husband just died, how can she just move on so soon? Do you realize how short 2 months is? How can the children even grieve or come to terms with what has happened if daddy has been replaced so soon. Won’t that confuse them and do more harm than good?”
There are some really weird and counterproductive reactions to grief.
One I’ve heard of is widows or widowers suddenly going on reckless spending sprees.
nbcnews.com/id/8288634/ns/msnbc-morning_joe/t/widow-defends-spending-spree/#.U1mIo6hX-uY
That’s why it’s so important to slow down and have good counsel after a loss.
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EasterJoy
Guest
Yes. To answer the original question, the Church in her wisdom has left those who are widowed to discern for themselves how to handle their grief. They are free to marry, and so free to conduct a courtship, if they see fit.
Many who lose a spouse withdraw from any thought of allowing anyone to fall in love with them and are glad afterward that they did so, but that is only one way to go The prudent way to handle the grief of losing a spouse can take more than one form, without any one of them being wrong. Likewise, the family of the dead husband are also in their grief and shock, and are likely to be more sensitive than anyone else to any news about the family of their grieved brother/son. It is hard to be hard on them for their reaction, because they are in a lot of pain themselves.
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TheWarriorMonk
Guest
The living spouse is free to date at the moment of the deceased spouse’s death.
People grieve differently. Some people would never get over the death of a spouse. Others get over it almost immediately, understanding that their spouse has died and there is nothing they can do to change that.
People grieve differently. Some people would never get over the death of a spouse. Others get over it almost immediately, understanding that their spouse has died and there is nothing they can do to change that.
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MJJean
Guest
Exactly!
My dad started dating his wife a few months after my mom passed. He’s one of those guys who is hopeless without a woman to take care of him. He found a good woman. My siblings andI could see no reason to object. Mom was gone. Nothing could bring mom back. We didn’t want dad to be alone. So, he dated and married.
If my husband, who I love passionately beyond logic and reason, were to die I would be devastated. But after a few weeks I will have done all the crying I can do and I am one who understands there is nothing that could change death. So, yeah, I’d date within a month or two if I were asked by a suitable man. Life’s too short to pass up the opportunity for a good thing and no one knows that better than someone who recently suffered an unexpected loss.
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Luvz2travel
Guest
It’s never a good idea to date again that soon after such a long and commited relationship because as others have stated there’s a natural grieving processes that needs to take place. My dad for instance took 4 years to reach the dating point while I dated a guy that had been engaged and dumped only 3 months before (he lied and told me it had been longer) I came to find out fairly quickly in his case he was the type that couldn’t exist without someone it didn’t really matter who. Another guy I dated had been divorced a number of years and was going through the annulment process but was still extreemly bitter and not letting go of the past relationshion. Granted that death is different so I would imagine it would be harder to recover from such a loss and require a year if not more. Ususally a year seems to be the minimum in healthy recovery cases and even that pushing it.
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EasterJoy
Guest
Your experiences are what I would bring up if someone asked. They are well worth considering. They are not universally applicable, though. If someone else wants to do something else, they ought to be left alone.It’s never a good idea to date again that soon after such a long and commited relationship because as others have stated there’s a natural grieving processes that needs to take place. My dad for instance took 4 years to reach the dating point while I dated a guy that had been engaged and dumped only 3 months before (he lied and told me it had been longer) I came to find out fairly quickly in his case he was the type that couldn’t exist without someone it didn’t really matter who. Another guy I dated had been divorced a number of years and was going through the annulment process but was still extreemly bitter and not letting go of the past relationshion. Granted that death is different so I would imagine it would be harder to recover from such a loss and require a year if not more. Usually a year seems to be the minimum in healthy recovery cases and even that pushing it.
The woman in this situation was not “dumped” nor rejected. Her husband was torn away from her by no fault of hers and no fault of his. She has a male friend, he is not on intimate terms with her, and there is no sign of an impending marriage. Maybe she just does have any particular relative or woman friend to talk to whom she trusts to refrain from gossiping about her rollercoaster of emotions. She may know that she’s going through a lot of feelings that will come and go, and she wants someone she can trust to listen and then forget. If you find that, you may not get to choose whether this gold standard of discretion is male or female.
She let her husband’s family know it, so they wouldn’t find out from someone else. They took it badly, but these things happen. People sometimes lash out when they are grieving. If they were telling us how they reacted as if they were looking for validation, we could chime in about what we thought about their reaction, but they aren’t here asking for advice, either.
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Luna_Lovecraft
Guest
Everyone processes grief differently. Everyone responds to death and grief differently.
As far as I know, the Church does not proscribe a specific time period for mourning before a widow or widower can date and possibly re-marry. This is for good reason; for example, sometimes people need the financial and social security (not to be confused with the Social Security Administration in the United States) marriage affords. Teaching that one must not marry for specific time period could put both adults and children at economic risk.
My thoughts and prayers are with the children who’ve lost a father and are now distanced from their grandparents. I hope the adults in the OP’s situation have the perspicacity and maturity to put the children’s needs first.
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