How the Mormon Church Now Explains the Translation of the Book of Mormon

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Chris-Wa1

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Up until very recently, the LDS Church taught that Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon from golden plates using ancient divine tools called the urim and thummim. It’s how the missionaries teach it, it’s depicted in their art on the walls of their chapels, and it’s what has always been taught in their Sunday school classes.

But historical documents from those who were actually there with Joseph when it happened tell a much different story. They say that Joseph Smith put his personal seer stone (the same seer stone he used to find buried treasure) into a hat where he would read the translated words of the BoM that miraculously appeared in the darkness. His scribes then wrote down what he read. The golden plates (which they were never allowed to actually see) were often not even in the same room. Now you will not find this version of the story depicted in LDS art or taught by the missionaries or in Sunday school.

Joseph was a money digger, which means people paid him to find buried treasure on their property. He claimed the ability to find treasure with his magical seer stone. (Hint: he never actually found any treasure at all–it was a con which court trial records show he was accused of fraud.)

This information has become much more accessible in recent times due to the internet, and the Mormon church has noticed because a lot more LDS are asking about this and many other historical issues. More and more LDS are leaving the church because of them. Needless to say, these issues are causing many problems for the truth claims of the Mormon church. In an effort to counter these problems, the church has recently published essays about the more controverisal issues and even made some videos. Unfortunately for the church, the essays are full of circular logic, denial, or just plain nonsense that any scholar with integrity would cringe at. Check out this recent video from the church about the translation of the BoM and seer stones. It doesn’t even seem like the guys in the video believe what they are saying.

 
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Chris-Wa1 said:
Up until very recently, the LDS Church taught that Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon from golden plates using ancient divine tools called the urim and thummim. It’s how the missionaries teach it, it’s depicted in their art on the walls of their chapels, and it’s what has always been taught in their Sunday school classes.
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Define “until very recently”. In 1992 President Nelson speaking to new LDS mission presidents referenced both the Urim and Thummim and the seer stone. The article was published in the Ensign and sent to all subscribing LDS. See A Treasured Testament

In 1974 this article appeared in The Friend (LDS magazine for children): A Peaceful Heart And again, it was sent to all subscribing families.

Part of the article states the following:

To help him with the translation, Joseph found with the gold plates “a curious instrument which the ancients called Urim and Thummim, which consisted of two transparent stones set in a rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate.”

Joseph also used an egg-shaped, brown rock for translating called a seer stone. The translating was done at Peter Whitmer’s home, a friend of the Prophet’s where Oliver Cowdery, Emma Smith (Joseph’s wife), one of the Whitmers, or Martin Harris wrote down the words spoken by the Prophet as soon as they were made known to him.

Martin Harris said that on the seer stone “sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by [the one writing them down] and when finished [that person] would say ‘written;’ and if correctly written, the sentence would disappear and another take its place; but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates.”

Even with the help of the Urim and Thummim and the seer stone, it wasn’t easy to translate the sacred record. It required the Prophet’s greatest concentration and spiritual strength.

The Encyclopedia of Mormonism entry on seer stones here: http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Seer_Stones that references the Urim and Thummim and “other seer stones” used by Joseph Smith.

So, I’m not exactly sure why this is an issue…
 
It’s an issue for the reasons I already stated. Most LDS have very little idea of the real story behind the BoM translation, plus the multitude of other church history issues. It’s only in recent years that they are finding out about them. The church for decades denied much of this information. Some members have been excommunicated for teaching things the church denied before but now admits to be correct.

The point is also the video itself, the content of which is laughable. Joseph uses the same method to translate the BoM that he used to find fake buried treasure and defraud people out of their money. Just unbelievable.
 
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Chris-Wa1 said:
Up until very recently
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Again, please define “until very recently”. Which specific years are you referring to? Clearly the LDS Church was referring to the Seer Stone in 1974 in a magazine for children. 1974 was long before the internet was around…
 
ooops…sorry… havent been keeping up with LDS. I mentioned Smith’s practices 30 years ago and it didnt seem like many people cared. Or maybe they just didnt want to research his history.
 
Polygamy is a whole other can of worms that would take many threads to get through.
 
Most people are born into it. When you’re taught all of your life that your church is the only true church and that the only way you can be happy is to live by only its precepts, it’s easy to understand why people believe. For the average member it’s ultimately based on emotion. Feelings trump logic and facts. When you want something to be true badly enough you are willing to put the blinders on.
 
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Oh I see. You don’t hear a lot about the many who left very early on. The early LDS church was by no means a model of tranquility. There were many problems among the leadership from the very beginning that caused rifts and schisms. Polygamy was just one. Even Joseph’s own first wife Emma left. I say ‘first’ because he had as many as 50 wives, including a couple 14 year olds and also women who were already married to other men at the time.
 
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Also if you learn about the people of that time (1830) in that area (the American frontier), you will find them to be a particularly superstitious lot prone to belief in magic and whatever new religion came their way. Joseph wasn’t the only self-proclaimed prophet that made followers there.
 
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I’m amazed that this is what you’re hung up on, but I stand by it because though you can find a couple of articles that briefly mentioned seer stones, that subject is by no means what has been taught to the membership. The missionaries don’t teach it. It’s not taught in Sunday school, and there is certainly no LDS art depticting Joseph translating the Book of Mormon by sticking his head into a hat with a seer stone in it. No, the church has mostly ignored this information because it looks bad. Only in recent years has it garnered enough attention on the internet among enough members that the church has felt compelled to address it, though as usual their efforts at explaining only makes it look worse, as seen in the video I posted.
 
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Chris-Wa1 said:
I’m amazed that this is what you’re hung up on, but I stand by it because though you can find a couple of articles that briefly mentioned seer stones, that subject is by no means what has been taught to the membership.
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This is the LDS handbook & the section on church magazines is here: https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbo...selected-church-policies?lang=eng&_r=1#21.1.9

This specifically states:
The First Presidency has consistently encouraged members of the Church to read the Church magazines. Local Church leaders should encourage members to have the Church magazines in their homes. These magazines contain the Lord’s guidance given through latter-day prophets. Church magazines strengthen faith in the Savior and provide inspired direction for personal challenges.

If publishing a magazine and encouraging the membership to read it isn’t teaching the general membership, then I don’t know what is. Not all religious instruction has to occur in a chapel on Sundays.
 
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LOL, two obscure articles, the most recent from over 20 years ago. And one 20 years before that, so two articles in the span of 40+ years.

You know as well as any Mormon the main teaching was that Jospeh Smith translated the BoM directly from the golden plates, by the power of God.

You are also well aware I’m sure that the LDS Church published a series of articles “clarifying” subjects of whitewashed Mormon history, the seer stone being one of them. That particular article was published in 2015…which is fairly recently.
 
The seer stone in a hat, has gone from “anti-Mormon lie” to “it’s just a theory” to “I always knew that”. Gaslighting is an amazing thing.
 
RebeccaJ said:
LOL, two obscure articles, the most recent from over 20 years ago. And one 20 years before that, so two articles in the span of 40+ years.
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I’m still waiting for the definition of “until very recently”, but no one is forth coming…
RebeccaJ said:
You know as well as any Mormon the main teaching was that Jospeh Smith translated the BoM directly from the golden plates, by the power of God.
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Where does the LDS church teach that Joseph Smith did not use translation aids? Joseph Smith History in the Pearl of Great Price mentions the Urim and Thummim several times. See Joseph Smith—History 1. Even the OP acknowledges the Urim and Thummim.
RebeccaJ said:
You are also well aware I’m sure that the LDS Church published a series of articles “clarifying” subjects of whitewashed Mormon history, the seer stone being one of them. That particular article was published in 2015…which is fairly recently.
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So you now refer to a fourth instance of the seer stone being mentioned on an official LDS website.
 
‘Until very recently’ means within the last few years. It’s revealing to see that of all the things that were said, this is what you choose to focus on. You cite a couple of obscure articles written over the span of 40+ years as if that’s proof the church hasn’t been trying to ignore the the seer stone history. Until the last few years most LDS had no idea about the seer stone stories, unless they happened to read about it on the internet from outside sources. Now that enough of them have, the church has responded by putting out that ridiculous video, which only makes the church look even worse because the answers are so bad.
 
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