How the Mormon Church Now Explains the Translation of the Book of Mormon

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chris-Wa1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Chris-Wa1 said:
Most people are born into it. When you’re taught all of your life that your church is the only true church and that the only way you can be happy is to live by only its precepts, it’s easy to understand why people believe. For the average member it’s ultimately based on emotion. Feelings trump logic and facts. When you want something to be true badly enough you are willing to put the blinders on.
Click to expand...
It seems that Mormonism has become very fluid and flexible. I’ve even heard Mormons, who believe in the Mormonism that I remember, referring to themselves as “McConkie Mormons.” So Mormonism seems to allow much variation in personal beliefs, and fluidity in church teaching.
I’m not sure they need blinders to feel good. They just invent the Mormonism that makes them feel good. And if you are proselytizing, make up a Mormonism that makes your audience feel good.
 
It’s a fair question/observation. I served a two-year mission from 1976-1978. Never did we teach anything but Joseph translating the plates while they sat there right in front of him on a table with a cloth or towel draped in between him and Oliver (or whoever was the scribe at the time). The picture we had in our old “flip chart” showed Joe running his finger over the inscriptions while carefully translating, character by character. It was also mentioned that he used the urim and thummim as well, but NEVER a seer stone. I’m convinced that the Church would never have taught anything contrary to that were it not for the Internet. I remember back then, one vague suggestion from a knowledgeable member that Joseph might have also used a seer stone that he had found in a well, while his face was buried in a hat. But that was not broadly taught anywhere.

None of that really matters, anyway. All that matters is the truth and I know beyond any shred of doubt that the BOM is a fraud. Those who choose to believe in Joseph Smith and unicorns can do so. Everyone needs something to believe in.

On a lighter note, I’m getting baptized this weekend. It’s been a wonderful journey. I have never felt such joy in my life.
 
littlebird said:
Smith also promoted polygamy, but not many seem to care.
Click to expand...
Yeah just read the sad writings of the polygamous wives who were coerced into the lairs of adultery and neglect and you’ll find that some cared.
 
lilypadrees said:
If Joseph Smith had been a true prophet, he wouldn’t have need seer stones or anything else to translate these alleged golden plates since they were supposedly given to him by the “angel” Moroni.
Click to expand...
They were allegedly given to him by the angel Nephi but they later decided his name was really Moroni.
 
Totally irreverent…but I admit this episode has been running through my mind while reading this thread. ☺️
 
From my understanding, they were very accurate in their portrayal.
 
It doesn’t surprise me that they can’t even make up their minds about the “angel’s” name! Wonder what they’ll come up with next?
 
JanSobieskiIII said:
40.png
Lemuel:
On a lighter note, I’m getting baptized this weekend. It’s been a wonderful journey. I have never felt such joy in my life.
Click to expand...
Congratulations! I’m getting confirmed myself.
Click to expand...
Thanks be to God! Keeping you in prayers as well!
 
I don’t like this type of argument so I agree with your premise however, Joseph Aaron nor the Apostles were prophets. What bothers me is that LDS does not seem to be concerned that Joseph Smith used the same methods to translate and to commit fraud. The method used does seem to be one of what we would call a con man.
 
lilypadrees said:
It doesn’t surprise me that they can’t even make up their minds about the “angel’s” name! Wonder what they’ll come up with next?
Click to expand...
Well they did finally make up their mind. They over ruled Joseph after he died. And he’s the one who supposedly saw Nephi. But the graven image that they place atop most of their temples is named Moroni.
 
TOmNossor said:
I think the biggest change today is that many folks with a casual interest stumble upon things they never considered during an Internet search. These are not folks with extraordinary commitment nor a taste for weighing these questions carefully over a period of time.
Click to expand...
Tom, what a load of bunk. You just trivialized the thousands of LDS who have already left or are in the process of leaving the church because they stumbled upon things they never considered during an Internet search. You dismiss them as though they haven’t made the effort to dive deeply into the problem issues. Nothing could be further from the truth. Those people you so callously dismiss know more about Mormonism than the vast majority of LDS, including probably many of the leadership. Try reading their stories or watching videos of their personal testimonies sometime and see just how agonizing the process was for them as they dove deeper into church history and doctrine only to find heartbreak in how badly they had been deceived by the church their whole lives. So many didn’t want to leave. They tried to make it work, and begged their leaders for answers that would somehow make continuing to be a Mormon plausible. But the answers never came and finally they had to make the break for the sake of truth. They could live the lie no longer.
 
Last edited:
TOmNossor said:
That being said, what in your opinion is the difference between the BOM coming from a seer stone or a pair of stones set in a bow that LDS often envisioned as some type of glasses? Does looking through miraculously provided glasses or looking through a stone really change the extraordinary nature of the story?

Again, I was a very new member as I learned about seer stones. My best recollection was that the BOM was no more or less miraculous because it through a seer stone as compared to “the Urim and Thummim.”
Click to expand...
I would say that both are silly fictions made up by Joseph Smith. But the seer stone is especially ridiculous given that Joseph used the same seer stone to con people out of their money to find buried treasure. We all know that was a lie, so when he uses the exact same process to translate the Book of Mormon you must concede how ludicrous that sounds. Which is why the church greatly de-emphasized/ignored the seer stone story for most of its history. Only now that significant numbers of questioning LDS are finding out about this (and many other troubling historical issues) has the church come out and tried to deal with it.
 
Last edited:
Spyridon said:
The way they describe things makes me think of ancient gnostic heresy combined with 19th century con’s.
Click to expand...
In fairness, mormonism (and mohamedism, too, for that matter) is more Arian than gnostic . . .

hawk
 
littlebird said:
Smith also promoted polygamy, but not many seem to care.
Click to expand...
The large number of widows predates Mormon polygamy.

Mormons were shot quite often . . . in the 1980s, Massachusetts discovered that it still had an order on the books for the able-bodied citizenry to shoot them on sight! (about the same time as another state found it still had a law holding a “master” harmless for the “lawful beating” of a servant . . .)

hawk
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top