How the Mormon Church Now Explains the Translation of the Book of Mormon

[gazelam]

Joseph Fielding Smith, when asked if the LDS Church had Smith’s seer stone said no, and further that the idea Smith ever used one was a devil’s lie.

Please provide a reference for the “devil’s lie” quote. Thanks.

 

[Vonsalza]

Good grief man. Show me a seer stone or an ancient submarine or pre-Columbian American horses silk or steel…

 

[Raxus]

Joseph found with the gold plates “a curious instrument which the ancients called Urim and Thummim, which consisted of two transparent stones set in a rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate.”

oseph also used an egg-shaped, brown rock for translating called a seer stone. The translating was done at Peter Whitmer’s home, a friend of the Prophet’s where Oliver Cowdery, Emma Smith (Joseph’s wife), one of the Whitmers, or Martin Harris wrote down the words spoken by the Prophet as soon as they were made known to him.

Martin Harris said that on the seer stone “sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by [the one writing them down] and when finished [that person] would say ‘written;’ and if correctly written, the sentence would disappear and another take its place; but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates.”

This is some next-level Harry Potter fanfiction, right here, except that the “Seer Stone” sounds more like Sauron’s One Ring. Seems appropriate, that.

 

[Vonsalza]

Treasure huntin’ Joe Smith said we all have seer stones.

If someone send me mine, I’ll go Mormon and be the most devout example you’ve ever seen.

 

[Raxus]

Treasure huntin’ Joe Smith said we all have seer stones.

If someone send me mine, I’ll go Mormon and be the most devout example you’ve ever seen.

Forget that, I want some gold plates, and my own planet. Except I’d name it something a lot cooler than “Kolob”.

(Ever notice that “Kolob” spelled backwards is “Bolok?” )

 

[Vonsalza]

Its just so, so brutally obvious that he was just making it all up…

All the errors in the BoM because he didn’t know better…
Many of the early rituals looking suspiciously like Masonic Rituals…
Only having “spiritual witnesses” of all this stuff he claimed existed…
And ALL the contradictions between him and the early leadership…

And these people DEFEND it, man. It kinda makes me sad…

 

[Lemuel]

This is some next-level Harry Potter fanfiction, right here, except that the “Seer Stone” sounds more like Sauron’s One Ring. Seems appropriate, that.

Totally fiction. What’s funny is that he said, "but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates.” So if it remained until it was corrected then why did the church have to make thousands of additional corrections?

I guess the correct corrections weren’t so correct after all, correct?

 

[Raxus]

I guess the correct corrections weren’t so correct after all, correct?

They’re correct until they suddenly get the Mormon church in hot water, at which point they were never actually correct at all, because what a prophet says after they’re not around anymore doesn’t really matter or something. It’s all a little convoluted, but very convenient for being able to say whatever you want and not get called out for it later.

 

[dochawk]

Many of the early rituals looking suspiciously like Masonic Rituals…

Not just early ritual.

A friend of mine who is a mason had at one point converted to Mormonism. Eventually he was taken into to be told special secrets by the bishop–and they were all stolen from freemasonry.

He didn’t last much longer, and they “revoked” his baptism . . .

hawk

 

[Lemuel]

I don’t know what it means to revoke a baptism. In all the years I was Mormon I never heard of such a thing. The only thing I can think of is that he was possibly excommunicated for apostasy.

While the evidence is quite damming, I also tend to give a pass to the Mormons regarding the similarities with Masonry. It’s possible that they both came from the same root and not that one was copied. And that’s not to say that I don’t think it was copied. It likely was.

I have had Mormon friends who were Masons and the signs, handshakes and much of the conversation is strikingly similar to the Mormon endowment.

 

[Gertabelle]

Please forgive me if this is derailing the thread (or did that train go off days ago?), but I’ve heard scuttlebutt that the Mormons have secret ceremonies, the content of which is only for full-fledged members or something.

Is there truth to that?

 

[BoomerangToo]

They used to be secret. But thanks to the miracle of hidden cameras:

There are videos all over YouTube for your enjoyment.

 

[Gertabelle]

They used to be secret. But thanks to the miracle of hidden cameras:

There are videos all over YouTube for your enjoyment.

I think their beliefs are anything but true, but it doesn’t feel right to watch what they want to keep private.

Does making these things public help draw people closer to God? Makes me wonder…

 

[dochawk]

I don’t know what it means to revoke a baptism. In all the years I was Mormon I never heard of such a thing. The only thing I can think of is that he was possibly excommunicated for apostasy.

he had certainly left them by then.

While the evidence is quite damming, I also tend to give a pass to the Mormons regarding the similarities with Masonry. It’s possible that they both came from the same root and not that one was copied. And that’s not to say that I don’t think it was copied. It likely was.

Smith was a freemason . . .

hawk

 

[BoomerangToo]

It doesn’t make them draw closer to God. It should make them run for the hills. One of the criteria that marks a cult is secret ceremonies. Why all the secrecy? Jesus did nothing in secret.

 

[Gertabelle]

It doesn’t make them draw closer to God. It should make them run for the hills. One of the criteria that marks a cult is secret ceremonies. Why all the secrecy? Jesus did nothing in secret.

Seems to me “running for the hills” would bring them closer to God.

 

[Lemuel]

Smith was a freemason . . .

I know that, as does anyone who has ever been a Mormon. That’s no secret. It’s also not a secret that the endowment ceremony came into being shortly after Joseph became a Mason, so the coincidences are indeed, suspicious. All I am saying is that I hold out the POSSIBILITY that both the Mormon endowment ceremony and the Masonic ceremony, whatever you call it, may have come from the same source. Not likely, but possible.

 

[Lemuel]

IMHO, it’s not appropriate to put this on the Internet. People have the right to their privacy. The Mormons, no matter how far astray they are, have the right to keep what is theirs to themselves. I’m not a fan of videos like these. I’ve done the endowment hundreds of times and officiated them many times as well.

 

[Lemuel]

Please forgive me if this is derailing the thread (or did that train go off days ago?), but I’ve heard scuttlebutt that the Mormons have secret ceremonies, the content of which is only for full-fledged members or something.

Is there truth to that?

Mormons have a number of secret ceremonies in the Mormon temples–as opposed to the Mormon church houses. They perform baptisms for the dead, washings and anointings, the endowment which contains things like secret signs and tokens, covenants, and the true order of prayer, marriages and sealings, second anointings, and in addition, the Salt Lake Temple has a room called the Holy of Holies where the president spends a bit of time and invites others to visit on occasion. Other, even more secret ordinances go on there, and it is believed that the Holy of Holies is where the president meets and talks with God.

 

[Vonsalza]

Please forgive me if this is derailing the thread (or did that train go off days ago?), but I’ve heard scuttlebutt that the Mormons have secret ceremonies, the content of which is only for full-fledged members or something.

Is there truth to that?

There is. And there’s been a bit of fuss about the tax-exempt nature of some of those properties where these things take place since they’re effectively open to members only rather than the general public.