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Raxus
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The Mormon church is a cult. They don’t get the pass that valid religions do. (I speak for myself when saying this.) No conflict here, not for me.
How the Mormon Church Now Explains the Translation of the Book of Mormon
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Raxus
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I’m surprised they would, seeing as how they consider the Church to be the Whore of Babylon and all that nonsense.
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Lemuel
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Missionaries are generally ignorant and clueless. They are teenagers for the most part. What do you expect? I remember being a missionary and attending an Easter Vigil at a Catholic church. We didn’t kneel or stand when everyone else did. When they sprinkled holy water on everyone we were trying to dodge it as if it were poison. When everyone offered each other a sign of peace we just sat there and ignored everyone. I’m so embarrassed at how I acted as a missionary. But yeah, it was the Whore of Babylon. What was I supposed to do?
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Raxus
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Why do Mormon missionaries attend Easter Vigil services at all?
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Lemuel
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I don’t know. I really don’t. For me, that was over 40 years ago. I don’t know why we went.
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Raxus
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I mean, I’m glad you did. It wasn’t ordered by higher-ups in the Mormon church, then? Y’all just decided to go?
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Lemuel
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I’m sure it was not ordered by anyone. Perhaps we had someone invite us and we accepted.
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Lemuel
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For what it’s worth, I think I would be even more uncomfortable attending a Mormon church today than I was attending the Catholic church back then.
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BoomerangToo
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Do you envision a day when the LDS authorities just 'fess up and admit it was all made up? I’m thinking they will eventually ditch the peculiar Mormon beliefs and gradually adopt basic Christian beliefs and become a regular Christian denomination. My understanding is that they can do that due to the leader being a prophet who gets messages from God. What do you think?
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BoomerangToo
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I think a lot about the committed Mormons who fervently believe, the ones who have professed a “burning in my heart”, who just know it’s true. They have asked God and He told them it was true! It amazes me, the human mind. It kind of makes me wonder about my own beliefs. I know my religion is true, too but we can’t all be right! 
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Chris-Wa1
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If they fessed up and admitted it was all made up, that would be the end of Mormonism. Without their ‘restoration’ and the Book of Mormon, there is no reason for their church to exist. So no, they will not do that.
Right now, in my view, the church leadership is between a rock and a hard place. The availability of information about church history on the internet is making it very hard for them to stick with the foundational stories of the church as they have been taught for so long. This narrative goes right to the very truth claims of the church. As more and more members learn the real truth about church history, the leadership has to come to terms with it in some way. So far what they are doing isn’t working too well.
Right now, in my view, the church leadership is between a rock and a hard place. The availability of information about church history on the internet is making it very hard for them to stick with the foundational stories of the church as they have been taught for so long. This narrative goes right to the very truth claims of the church. As more and more members learn the real truth about church history, the leadership has to come to terms with it in some way. So far what they are doing isn’t working too well.
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BoomerangToo
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I have to say it’s really interesting watching this slow-motion implosion. I’m dying to know how it turns out.
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Chris-Wa1
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Yes the “burning in the bosom” is the trump card they play when confronted with a question they cannot answer. It’s when feelings take over for facts. The Mormon testimony is based on emotional appeal. All members are trained to seek it as a confirmation of their beliefs. If you don’t get the burning in the bosom then the problem is with YOU…meaning you were not faithful enough or prayerful enough or good enough.
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BoomerangToo
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Interesting. It reminds me of the “bible believing Christians” and their “spirit-filled” worship services, which some of them claim Catholics do not possess (Holy Spirit, I mean). I figured out what they call “spirit-filled” worship is really just the endorphins released due to lively music and fiery preaching. It’s all emotion, like what we used to get at a Doobie Brothers concert. 
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Lemuel
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I love the burning in the bosom conversations with Mormons. I remember getting the burning in the bosom when Elder Paul H. Dunn used to speak. Turned out that most of his stories were lies.
You can get a burning in the bosom when you watch a movie that moves you or listen to good music. Burning in the bosom means nothing.
When a Mormon tells me that I can read the Book of Mormon and the Spirit will confirm the truthfulness of it, I reply that I have and he has and I know it’s not true. They usually can’t say much to that unless it’s to tell me that I must be listening to the wrong Spirit. What else can they say?
Mormons often talk about “Moroni’s promise” in the BOM. They say that Moroni says that if you read and pray and ask if the BOM is true, the Spirit will confirm it. But that’s not what Moroni says. He says, “And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost”. So I make it a point to say that you’re supposed to ask if the BOM is NOT true, which I have done and which has been confirmed.
I love Mormons . . .
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BoomerangToo
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Isn’t that the truth? People conflate entertainment and self-hypnosis with the action of the Holy Spirit all the time. I experienced that once at Mass. For once, and I really mean ONCE, we had an amazing band. They were rockin’ the house down. They were so good, I felt my soul was transported to another place, but in no way was I attributing this feeling to the Holy Spirit. But that is exactly what stimulating entertainment will do to you and your “burning bosom.”
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RebeccaJ
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It was Bruce McConkie…wrong guy, sorry about that.
“In imitation of the true order of heaven where seers receive revelation from God through the Urim and Thummim, the devil gives revelations to some of his followers through peepstones or crystal balls.” Bruce R. McConkie, “Mormon Doctrine”
This goes along with D&C 28:11, where Hiram Page was claiming he received revelation via a peep stone. McConkie here, is making a difference between peep stones and the U&T. Not addressing Smith’s usage of peep stones. In McConkie’s time peep stones being used by JS was viewed as follows.
Joseph Fielding Smith did write: “While the statement has been made by some writers that the Prophet Joseph Smith used a seer stone part of the time in his translating of the record, and information points to the fact that he did have in his possession such a stone, yet there is no authentic statement in the history of the Church which states that the use of such a stone was made in that translation. The information is all hearsay, and personally, I do not believe that this stone was used for this purpose.” Joseph Fielding Smith, “Doctrines of Salvation”
“In imitation of the true order of heaven where seers receive revelation from God through the Urim and Thummim, the devil gives revelations to some of his followers through peepstones or crystal balls.” Bruce R. McConkie, “Mormon Doctrine”
This goes along with D&C 28:11, where Hiram Page was claiming he received revelation via a peep stone. McConkie here, is making a difference between peep stones and the U&T. Not addressing Smith’s usage of peep stones. In McConkie’s time peep stones being used by JS was viewed as follows.
Joseph Fielding Smith did write: “While the statement has been made by some writers that the Prophet Joseph Smith used a seer stone part of the time in his translating of the record, and information points to the fact that he did have in his possession such a stone, yet there is no authentic statement in the history of the Church which states that the use of such a stone was made in that translation. The information is all hearsay, and personally, I do not believe that this stone was used for this purpose.” Joseph Fielding Smith, “Doctrines of Salvation”
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Lemuel
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None of the BOM was translated using the Urim and Thummim. Even Mormon history says that.
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ColorMomma
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We are glad you’ve come home to the Catholic church. You belong now and always.
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gazelam
Guest
A very good redo. Thanks for sharing…
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