How the specter of syncretism is being used to islamize the faith

[Deleted member]

There's a reasonable possibility to draw conclusions about. He may have matured in the direction of realizing the limitations of only being able to copy already-published work.

Sure, Marx was copying. The reason he invented Communism was he wasn't happy with his own skills and inspirations. That's exactly what it is about Communism. A poor dramatist wished he was better so he invented a system to keep spiritual barriers low so he could cheat and copy.

What you said is 100% compatible with designing a system which used pretexts to deprive the people of religion. Then, he could hope to form rapports of sin with people whose inspiration or intelligence he coveted. He could even hope to make himself personally powerful by seeing it implemented even though it didn't happen in his lifetime except on a small scale such as the Paris Commune and only in the first step away from Capitalism.

That is related to the point of the thread. Subversive elements may be trying to destroy prayer and the faith because they'd like to have what you have.

Please, consider that making arguments without proper backing is not fully honest. For example: "the reason he invented communism was that he was not happy with his own skills and inspirations"- how can you know what Marx felt? it is difficult to know even for people close to us.
Realizing why it is not honest behavior may not be easily apparent, it is not the focus of the thread, but it is a concern within the spirit of a Catholic forum.

Have you read a good biography on the man? A serious historian would read Marx's books his correspondence with close people, would look at school reports, letter from his university professors.
You seem interested on the topic- here is one example:
Karl Marx: A Biography by David McLellan is the standard university text. It's quite good, easy to digest, and comprehensive.

Karl Marx His Life And Thought : David McLellan : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

1 TRIER, BONN AND BERLINI Childhood 1 II Student Days 16 ill Journalism 40 2 PARISI Marriage and Hegel 62 II The Deutsch-franwsische...

archive.org

As Christians, we are exhorted to treat people properly, that includes not making judgements about them. You do not like Marx's ideas, that is no reason to launch a personal attack on him. I hope it is not something you frequently do with people in your life.

Statements with no base are irresponsible. As a society, we do very badly if people make decisions that have important effects on their lives and the lives of others without seeking proper knowledge or being accountable for their words and actions. That is terrifying- real harm can come out of it.

Please do not present me again with a statement that is not properly researched, and when you do, please include your source.

 

[vz71]

The system teaches people to regard the means of production as their right.

That would be a question of morality, not of spirituality.

It teaches that coveting their neighbors' goods is their right.

Again, morality. Not spirituality.

Does sin and spirituality go away if you never mention it in your official source documents?

I understand you wish the absence of a position to be a position.
But, in this case, it simply is not.
Marxism is atheistic in nature. It has nothing to do with spirituality.

 

[Deleted member]

That would be a question of morality, not of spirituality.

Again, morality. Not spirituality.

I understand you wish the absence of a position to be a position.
But, in this case, it simply is not.
Marxism is atheistic in nature. It has nothing to do with spirituality.

Adding to the argument: No big theory has ever been developed by just one person- ideas from previous thinkers are further developed. Marx was no exception- the modern concept of communism was first coined with the French Revolution, and Marx developed it into a criticism of industrial capitalism. Similarly, his views on religion and spirituality were strongly influenced by Ludwig Feuerbach, Hegel's philosophy student. To fully understand Marx's writing, it is necessary to read Feuerbach as well. In particular, "The essence of Christianity"

The Essence of Christianity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Marx's most famous writing on religion/spirituality is this introduction to "A Contribution to the Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right", which includes the famous quote- "Religion is the opium of the people". It also includes: "The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion."

​

Marx, A Contribution to the Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right 1844

 

[Dissenter]

That would be a question of morality, not of spirituality.

Again, morality. Not spirituality.

Would you say it's spiritually healthy to feel you are owed when you are not? Would you say a person can't covet spiritual communion with intelligence or ability so they could achieve their covets in life? Would you say being told you are entitled to the goods of the rich can't awaken covetousness?

I understand you wish the absence of a position to be a position.
But, in this case, it simply is not.
Marxism is atheistic in nature. It has nothing to do with spirituality.

No, it actively subverts and persecutes religion. Suppressing the light of God is enough to live in a continual state of sin.

The point, despite the quasi-academic smokescreen you possible closet Marxists are throwing up, is so religion could not serve as a protection against the spirituality of being taught your abler neighbors must help you through the very rapport you create by burning with envy and hatred for their abilities.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

the spirituality of being taught your abler neighbors must help you through the very rapport you create by burning with envy and hatred for their abilities.

This is actually a very interesting and original take on the concept of the haves and the have-nots. Good observation.

 

[vz71]

You will forgive the delay in replying back. The replies here are over two months old, and I had to re-read the thread to get the context.

Would you say it's spiritually healthy to feel you are owed when you are not?

I would say it is not healthy, period.

Would you say a person can't covet spiritual communion with intelligence or ability so they could achieve their covets in life?

You may need to rephrase this question. I have no idea what you are asking.

Would you say being told you are entitled to the goods of the rich can't awaken covetousness?

I would consider that a form of incitement to class warfare. Not healthy.

No, it actively subverts and persecutes religion. Suppressing the light of God is enough to live in a continual state of sin.

OK, I am not certain this point says anything different then my initial position towards Marxism.

The point, despite the quasi-academic smokescreen you possible closet Marxists are throwing up,...

"possible closet Marxist"?
I have been accused of being many things in my life. This is new.
I would have to ask, what exactly is your definition of Marxism. If I am to be considered a possible closet Marxist, the definition here should be clarified.

...is so religion could not serve as a protection against the spirituality of being taught your abler neighbors must help you through the very rapport you create by burning with envy and hatred for their abilities.

I do not believe Marxism has any designs towards spirituality at all. It is Atheistic in nature, materialist as well.

I guess the big takeaway here is that you may not be operating with the same definition of Marxism that I do.
It wouldn't hurt to post a definition so we can further the discussion in a meaningful way.

 

[Dissenter]

I do not believe Marxism has any designs towards spirituality at all. It is Atheistic in nature, materialist as well.

Persecuting, taming, or controlling spirituality is a design.

 

[vz71]

Persecuting, taming, or controlling spirituality is a design.

Unless you wish to claim the destruction of spirituality is, in fact, a spiritual quality.

I am not so certain it is the case.

Still, you have a valid point. And you do seem insistent that you be right.

So congratulations. You're right!

Of course, that is a very qualified justification. Marxism is atheistic in nature. It is not a type of spirituality at all.
Seeking the destruction of spirituality does not actually make Marxism spiritual.