How to Avoid Marrying a Jerk

[Bruised_Reed]

This goes to the heart of it all: How effective are these programs? Do the people who attend fair better after going through P.I.C.K a Partner? What’s the success rate I wonder. I think praying and discernement should be the first step and something like this a “tool” to used in discernment. You know?

Something like this looks good at first glance but is it truely effective?

That is why I asked if anyone had any working knowledge of this specific program. I’m not really looking for other resources.

While I appreciate the advice or suggestions offered I was/am looking for thoughts, opinions, experiences regarding the program mentioned and linked in the first post.

Not alternatives.

Thanks though.

long time and still waiting?
I have the disc on my desk. Could someone enlighten me before I spend the time on viewing ‘How to Avoid Marrying a Jerk or Jerkette’?

Yes still waiting

Most of the posts are off topic. Oh, well.

 

[jmcrae]

If he doesn’t regard your body as a sex object, he’s hardly going to have that attitude to his own.

Being properly groomed is hardly the same thing as making oneself into a sex object.

People are saying use deodorant, get a hair cut, and wear clean clothes that fit - they’re not asking you to put on leathers, or a tight white t-shirt.

 

[jmcrae]

Yes, that is Romans 8:28, and I agree totally.

I’m not really going through anything, “right now,” though, as I have been single for quite some time.

I do find it very disturbing, though, that whenever I happen to see ANY single(unaccompanied by anyone) attractive woman of appropriate age at Mass(which may happen at an average of maybe 6 times a year, if even), she tends to leave after receiving Communion, yet before “the Mass has ended.” This seems to be an epidemic behavior among attractive women who attend Mass alone. Thus, that takes away my opportunity to start a conversation, unless I was to follow her out, like a psycho stalker. Also, I do believe that it may be a VENIAL sin to leave Mass early like that, and I am not going to let some woman lead me into sin.

Okay, this sets off alarm bells for me - the women you want to date are women you’ve never even met before?

No, no, no - date from among your friends. Friendship is the starting place. Women that you already know, that you speak to on a regular basis already - you have their phone numbers in your book - not your little black book, of course, but these are women that you interact with at work, or through your Church volunteer project, or she’s someone who attends get-togethers at your home quite frequently.

Yes, you would definitely send out the wrong signals if you chased someone out of Mass that you had never met before, to ask for a date.

The person you marry will not be someone who has been a complete stranger to you right up until the time you start dating.

 

[unworthy]

Deb1…:

Changingheart,
I admit, it’s hard for the guys because they’re the ones, most of the time, who have to do the pursuing. But, with the Creator of the Universe on your side, he can do all the work for you, if it’s what you want. A prayer that I prayed two years ago when I was really really feeling sorrowful with singledom: “Lord, if I am called to marriage, let me be pursued!”
And I have been pursued ever since. Though, it wasn’t until this year that those pursuing me were the ones with whom I shared their attraction. Well, in God’s time it happened right?

Just keep continuing to seek righteousness as you seem to be doing, and keep attached to a daily prayer life.
This year I made a prayer to God in frustration: “Lord, you know what, I give up with men! This is your realm. I give you the job of bringing a potential spouse to me.” Then I just focused on being faithful. And, you know, in his time (which wasn’t too long after) he took care of it. Certain men just “happened” to be where I was, in the same univ. classes as mine, who “happened” to be very orthodox and very attractive, and attracted to me. And who I happened to bump into several times at random spots on campus. And now we form a group of good friends and I am discerning my spouse among these. Though as I mentioned earlier, there are certain red flags for me even among these guys. But, in God’s time I suppose it will happen.

In God’s time, you will have certain women who “happen” to be where you are, that “happen” to be ones whom you befriend. In fact it could be happening to you in your workplace, school life, I do not know. I really think that when these “happen” they are God-incidences.
This is ringing true for me, hope it gives you hope.

 

[whatevergirl]

Yes, that is Romans 8:28, and I agree totally.

I’m not really going through anything, “right now,” though, as I have been single for quite some time.

I do find it very disturbing, though, that whenever I happen to see ANY single(unaccompanied by anyone) attractive woman of appropriate age at Mass(which may happen at an average of maybe 6 times a year, if even), she tends to leave after receiving Communion, yet before “the Mass has ended.” This seems to be an epidemic behavior among attractive women who attend Mass alone. Thus, that takes away my opportunity to start a conversation, unless I was to follow her out, like a psycho stalker. Also, I do believe that it may be a VENIAL sin to leave Mass early like that, and I am not going to let some woman lead me into sin.

6 times per year is epidemic behavior?

Changingheart…maybe you are not yet ready for who God has in mind. I read a long time ago, when one of my single friends was struggling with some of the same questions and issues you are struggling with…that things are done in God’s time…and that He is preparing you for the right person, and preparing the other person for you. Should you be called to marriage…perhaps, God is working on your heart, and another’s heart–to prepare you for one another. Although I understand your frustration, women can sense that, too. Women can sense if a man is cynical, and it’s not attract-ing to generalize women into a this or that category. Not all attractive, single women leave right after Communion. And if they do, do you just write them off because of that? Be careful–the measuring stick that you use on others, will always be used on you. So, although it’s important to look for Godly qualities in a woman, I don’t know if I’d jump to any conclusions over six women per year leaving mass after Communion.

Be still, and know that He is God. He will lead you…just be OPEN MINDED to new possibilities. There are lots of great Catholic women out there…and you may just find one if you let go of some pre-conceived notions. Something to ponder…if you want to meet a wonderful, loving, kind and compassionate woman…would you be that in return to her, right now, in your life?Are you ready to be that for another? There’s an old saying…be what you want to attract.
God bless you, CH.

 

[chevalier]

Now, that being said, the American media glamourizes sexually promiscuous MEN (which women view as popular, and dating them as a key to popularity.) This is why women are drawn to jerks.

Brilliant.

The media glamourizes jerks, and women, like jobs, require references before they will even talk to a man. In other words, women generally won’t have anything to do with any man who they don’t know that other women desired, too.

They might use a man to improve their own popularity so that their rating grows. Some kind of growing socially.

Yes, they know that he cheated on his girfriend with seven other girls, but rather than thinking, “What a jerk,” the female mindset will say, “Wow, eight other women desired this guy within the last year. I want to experience whatever it is that is so great about him.”

Tunes Chopin’s Funeral March So many times have I witnessed that. Sometimes I have prevented it, sometimes not.

Or perhaps women pridefully think that there is something so great about them that a man who has never been faithful to anyone else is suddenly going to be faithful to them.

Men have a knack for that kind of faith too.

Well, that’s my theory. I may be wrong, but if I am, the only way I will be convinced that I’m wrong is for a woman to fall in love with ME. Women can talk talk talk and tell me I’m wrong wrong wrong, but actions speak louder than words. So, yes, I’m Man A(Although it’s been much longer than a year).) I will not accept any arguments that disagree with what I’ve said, so don’t waste your fingers typing them out. I’ll only accept the one action of dating me, to prove me wrong.

Well, looks like we’re playing chess tonight, hehe. By the way, popularity itself doesn’t cut and there’s a bit more to it - I have yet to discover what, although the clue is right. Sometimes you have the popularity to win any election in the local community without trying and yet you don’t have the “thing”. At other times, you have what it takes to sweep a girl off her feet, but you don’t have what it takes for her to want to keep you. At times your popularity will make her fall for you, but something will prevent her from acting on it - it may be the sexy roster that you spoke about, i.e. how many women have desired him that way and so on.

You may have the natural charm to turn heads and the learnt ability to keep a crowd listening to your words and you will still not beat the animal magnetism of a jerk. This is to say you will accomplish feats like he can’t dream about, but in the end he will always get the girl. It’s a bit like charging an elite cavalry unit on an enemy who will never run out of infantry. You can keep doing wonders and you can rout wave by wave, but how long can you put up?

What I have discovered, however, is that it’s no loss most of the time. Someone who goes for jerks is obviously not ready yet, unless badly misguided. Would you be happy if a girl picked you rather than a specific jerk? No, you wouldn’t. You would only be happy if she were to stop being attracted to jerks. The girls who wants jerks are most of the time not the girls you want.

By the way, someone in some other thread said women appreciated more what they had to fight for and that’s true. It holds some weight here in this issue. To keep a jerk, a woman has to fight. I’ve always wondered what made women flock to jerks and actually want to compete for their attention, a sight which saddens me. Perhaps they want some conquering. Or perhaps if they have to make effort - and if someone obviously doesn’t care, they do - the prize seems more worthy. Same if more women want it, which is what you describe as popularity here.

Before I get flamed, men have their own problems like this too. At least in my own case it took some effort to get over some ideas leading me to be attracted to the wrong type of girl all the time.

 

[chevalier]

I disagree. I’m a woman, and I would never think that a man is popular or desireable because he was cheating on me with several other women. Typically, the woman who is allowing this to go on, has insecurities of her own, not because she wants to be with a “desirable” (cheating) guy. Sure, there might be some women, but trust me…women, by and large, are not attracted to men who are cheaters. They make excuses for ‘their’ men, because they have things to work out within themselves, and therefore they *tolerate *the cheating.

Whatevergirl, he was speaking from the point of view of a third woman. Not the one betrayed, not the one with whom the man betrayed the former, but a third woman, so far a beholder. Naturally, cheated women don’t normally take it too well.

 

[chevalier]

Thank you for proving my point. You made the assumption that women are turned off by me. Thus you assume, “If a man is single, it is NOT because he has standards, but because women are rejecting him.”

On the other hand, you assume you get rejected because you have standards. Don’t worry, I’ve done that too. But you need to do some empirical study and some reasoning rather than assuming. Assumptions are overrated.

Then, if you were still single, you would conclude, “if other women are rejecting him, then I must, too, because women are such great authorities on whether a man is worth it or not.”

Collective thinking and somewhat low self esteem. Not really an authority thing.

The problem with that logic(or lack thereof) is that if we were to accept your faulty premise

Looks like you’re single for the same reason that I am.

This works on men also. Sadly, I experimented also in this type of behavior. I am not really proud of that. The worst part was that I found that I couldn’t respect the guys that were interested in me when I played games with them. And I disliked myself too. Thank goodness such behavior on my part didn’t last long.

It creates a sick atmosphere, an addictive one. It’s hard to break out of it. Someone once said relationships were controlled by the one who cared less and that’s true about any relationship involving games or manipulation, conscious or not. At some points in my life I’ve been able to snap out of it quickly, at some others it has dragged on for months even. Depends probably on the initial condition when the relationship starts.

Girl, don’t you know that wives dress their husbands? Yes, I know every man here is saying that I am sexist, but come on its true. A well dressed hubby often has a wife whose taste he listens to because he respects her.

I’m single and I’m perfectly fine with my taste, which is my own and no one gets to tell me what to wear. Ladies come to me for advice, not to tell me what to wear myself.

But, above all…please be wary of making sweeping generalized statements about us women. You wouldn’t like it if we women did that about men…And you may just pass up a great woman, because of what your internal (cynical ) voice is telling you.

Very true. Cynicism is scary, especially to those who don’t have it.

Hilarious! And yes it is true. And some wives even match outfits for their husbands every morning.

I might consider not doing to it to my future one if she doesn’t do it to me.

 

[chevalier]

Yes, you would definitely send out the wrong signals if you chased someone out of Mass that you had never met before, to ask for a date.

I’ve done such things, except not with mass, but it feels awry. If you actually go as far as meeting someone, you don’t even know if the person is Catholic (here not talking about church), much less if believing the same about marriage, children, charity, life… Maybe I’m lazy, but without knowing those things, it doesn’t feel worthy of making the effort to me.

 

[whatevergirl]

Just as an aside…I have dated jerks in my college days, that were not promiscuous men. When I think of a jerk, I think of someone who is dominating, or puts women down…I don’t think that women look for men who sleep around, and say…‘yes, he is popular, where do I sign up to be with HIM!’ LOL

Really…that would be rather sadistic though…or is it masochistic? I always get those two mixed up.

 

[ChangingHeart]

Okay, this sets off alarm bells for me - the women you want to date are women you’ve never even met before?

That says alot for the women I HAVE met before, doesn’t it?

I didn’t say that I wanted to date such women, but merely get to know them, so that I can see whether I do want to, as I’ve concluded, that at least as of now, there aren’t any women who I know, that I would want to marry.

There are no women who I work with that catch my interest. In fact, the more women that I get to know, the more I want to become a priest.

 

[whatevergirl]

That says alot for the women I HAVE met before, doesn’t it?

I didn’t say that I wanted to date such women, but merely get to know them, so that I can see whether I do want to, as I’ve concluded, that at least as of now, there aren’t any women who I know, that I would want to marry.

There are no women who I work with that catch my interest. In fact, the more women that I get to know, the more I want to become a priest.

Aw…CH–do not lose hope. Do women ever approach you to do things, just as friends?

 

[ChangingHeart]

Looks like you’re single for the same reason that I am.

Hahahahaha In the words of Homer J. Simpson, “It’s funny, because it’s true.”

 

[ChangingHeart]

Aw…CH–do not lose hope. Do women ever approach you to do things, just as friends?

Perhaps, sometimes co-ed group things, but never to do things one on one, just as friends. I haven’t had a single female “just a friend” who would do that ever.

 

[whatevergirl]

Perhaps, sometimes co-ed group things, but never to do things one on one, just as friends. I haven’t had a single female “just a friend” who would do that ever.

when was the last time you were on a good date? (a good one now)

 

[chevalier]

Just as an aside…I have dated jerks in my college days, that were not promiscuous men. When I think of a jerk, I think of someone who is dominating, or puts women down…I don’t think that women look for men who sleep around, and say…‘yes, he is popular, where do I sign up to be with HIM!’ LOL

Really…that would be rather sadistic though…or is it masochistic? I always get those two mixed up.

Masochistic. And that’s what young girls tend to do, although not in such extreme patterns. However, the more girls like a boy, the more girls will like him yet, because it’s attractive to a girl that a boy is attractive to other girls. Even adult women rarely completely get over that.

Perhaps, sometimes co-ed group things, but never to do things one on one, just as friends. I haven’t had a single female “just a friend” who would do that ever.

Maybe you’re intimidating. Girls will not come to guys who are intimidating. Okay, abusive sods excepted. You seem to be a fierce debater, opinionated and with a strong head. That’s not something everyone likes. A merry-go-lucky without much pretence will likely do better in the women field.

 

[whatevergirl]

Masochistic. And that’s what young girls tend to do, although not in such extreme patterns. However, the more girls like a boy, the more girls will like him yet, because it’s attractive to a girl that a boy is attractive to other girls. Even adult women rarely completely get over that.

Maybe you’re intimidating. Girls will not come to guys who are intimidating. Okay, abusive sods excepted. You seem to be a fierce debater, opinionated and with a strong head. That’s not something everyone likes. A merry-go-lucky without much pretence will likely do better in the women field.

Speaking from experience, I did not like men who slept around with other women…if anything, it was the polar opposite of what I was looking for, especially since I was a virgin, up until marrying my husband. Now, my husband was not a virgin when we met, but he was not sleeping around. He made a conscious effort in his late 20’s to not sleep with anyone else, until married. Thought that was very admirable quality, and one that drew me to him. But, we were friends first.

I think there are girls who like guys who are ‘wanted’ by others, and there are other girls who just want a nice guy. Why are we women being generalized on here like this? Are all men chauvinists because I have met several in my life who were? No.

Not all women are looking for a guy who has a lot of women–nor do they want a hermit. Somewhere in between, is where many women fall.

 

[strngrnrth]

It’s rarely women who are attracted to whomever looks popular; it’s mainly girls. I remember that age. Of course, back then I wasn’t that interested in being serious with anyone. I just wanted to be seen with them. I count the start of growth from girl to woman as the day I stopped seeing men as someone to be seen with and started considering what they wanted from me and what I really wanted.
As to the starting-as-friends strategy, well, I have to disagree. No, you don’t hit on a stranger, but you certainly don’t try to change a friendship into a romance, either. Timing matters. That’s something else manipulators have mastered, both sexes. Women are the bigger keepers of taboos. There is a taboo against incest that in the average woman extends to her friends. But every woman knows it is extremely dangerous to date a stranger. Thus we have the careful waltz of meeting.
Make frends, not with her, but with a friend of hers. Ask to be introduced. Act attracted by the simple means of, first, looking at her as you would look at a flower in a garden: pleased, but not obsessed. Next, have a relaxed conversation, focusing more on your mutual acquaintance. Now she makes her move. Allow your good qualities to show throughout this process. Pretend you are having lunch with your boss’s sona nd daughter; act relaxed but try not to put them off.
After two to five such conversations you may ask her out. Act as if it is a casual date (it should be) but be clear that it is a date. If she says no, don’t ask why. If it were for any reason besides lack of interest she would have volunteered the reason herself, usually.
There. Now everyone knows the secret, not just the ones who cheat.

 

[Just_wondering]

I feel that the reason you’re not getting as many women interested in you as you’d like is the same one someone else mentioned: the women you are interacting with aren’t ready for someone like you yet. They aren’t at that stage in their lives.

I dated several immature men before. Even before I went on a first date, I found out whether the man was interested in marriage in the near future. If he was, I wouldn’t go out with him. I didn’t want to lead anybody on when I wasn’t ready to think about marriage yet.

Somehow, in the last year, suddenly marriage became not only possible, but desireable. And suddenly all the guys that were good enough to consider before were totally unacceptable. I was looking for a different type of man.

Don’t give up hope. You’re the marrying type. The average woman dates several men, and only marries one. Therefore, the “date and don’t marry him” type of man will have many more opportunities to date than the “date him for the purpose of discerning marriage” type of man. It’s better to keep your standards high and hold out for the right girl than to lower your standards and let a woman lead you on and let you think she’s interested in marriage when she’s not.

 

[ChangingHeart]

when was the last time you were on a good date? (a good one now)

Well, how do you define “good?” One time, I was out on a date that I thought went well, but I later found out that a lot of what she told me on that date was dishonest, and she was just being agreeable so that I wouldn’t be turned off. So, would that qualify as a “good” date, just because it seemed so at the time, or would that not, since in retrospect, she misrepresented herself just to try to get me to like her?