How To Be A Traditional Catholic In A Liberal Parish?

[estesbob]

I guess I take it seriously because Michael Davies took it seriously when he said he had serious questions whether the Mass as said in English in the United States was, indeed, a valid Mass…this faux liturgy is replete with disrespect for the host, the celebrant and filled with heresy. (universal salvation among them)…the American version was never authorized other than by a run-away monsinor by the name of Bugnini who was ultimately exiled as the Vatican ambassador to Iran after it was discovered that he was a thirty second degree mason …if you want to see who has denied the magesterium, the Pope, etc, check out the Council of Trent’s anathemae concerning the form of the Mass and you’ll see that it’s not I who bear the fault…there were some in the Church (nuns and priests) who saw this modernist evil coming back int fifties…they cautioned those of us in Catholic grammer schools and high schools at the time that what they were teaching us was timeless and as long as we did what they were teaching us we would be fine in the eyes of God, even if we were the last person in the world practicing the religion that way…you are the one with the weaker arguement - history stands squarely against you

If you find yourself more spiritually fulfilled with the Tridentine Mass that’s great . But the idea that anyone who does not agree with you is sinning and their souls are in danger because they prefer the English Mass Is absolutely specious. It is elitism and legalism at its worst . It is exactly what St. Paul was railing againt in his letter to the Galatians. I have the full force of the Pope and the magisterium behind me-you have only your personal interpretation of history.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I travel a lot, and for a few weeks or months every year I am forced to go to Mass in California. It is a true test of my faith! Since it is not my parish, I can’t really do anything about the liturgical abuses I see, but I am still in control of my own behavior and I exercise that right at every Mass:

I kneel (alone) at the consecration, I bow and say “Amen” to receive the Holy Eucharist, I kneel and pray after Communion instead of using the time to strike up a conversation with my neighbor. I wear appropriate attire, I refuse to sing silly songs, I don’t chew gum, leave early, or arrive late. It isn’t much, but it’s all I can do under the circumstances. It’s my little battle cry to Jesus from the front lines.

About a year ago, I was talking to a woman in the parking lot of that church and she said, “Oh, you’re the woman who kneels! Why do you do that?” And I said, “Because I know where I am.”

After that, we had a long conversation and we’ve had many since then. She’s not quite ready for the Latin Mass, but she’s starting to see the value of reverence at Mass. So if you can’t feasibly change parishes, you can at least set a good example in the one you’re in. You never know who might be watching.

I am with you. i too refuse to sing those worldly songs. then they complain why no one wants to be part of the choir. no wonder, i wouldnt eitheir.

:nun1:

 

[wisdomseeker]

All this flurry of advice is very interesting…I find it difficult for traditional Catholics to blind themselves to the idea that the Novus Ordo as practiced in English is nothing more than a protestant memorial service…it it sinful to assist at such a service and the more the militant support it the more souls will be lost because of it…the Latin Mass is the future of the Church and if you think otherwise, look at the comparative ages of the relevant celebrants…these N O guys are a bunch of aging modernists who will be gone relatively soon

i hope you are right because it seems to me things are getting worse. all the churches in my area Florida one is worse than the others. i tried to attend the early Mass. it is a better one.

 

[wisdomseeker]

If you find yourself more spiritually fulfilled with the Tridentine Mass that’s great . But the idea that anyone who does not agree with you is sinning and their souls are in danger because they prefer the English Mass Is absolutely specious. It is elitism and legalism at its worst . It is exactly what St. Paul was railing againt in his letter to the Galatians. I have the full force of the Pope and the magisterium behind me-you have only your personal interpretation of history.

we must respect one another when discussing this subject. i think that many dont realize the changes in the Mass and just continue to accept changes. yesterday i went to a woman’s meeting, it was a charismatic movement in the Church and can tell you although these women are good people, i dont think they realize what they are doing. the service was just like a protestant service. the words, the music they used were all from protestant services. i dont think they realize that.

:byzsoc:

 

[estesbob]

we must respect one another when discussing this subject. i think that many dont realize the changes in the Mass and just continue to accept changes. yesterday i went to a woman’s meeting, it was a charismatic movement in the Church and can tell you although these women are good people, i dont think they realize what they are doing. the service was just like a protestant service. the words, the music they used were all from protestant services. i dont think they realize that.

:byzsoc:

So you show respect for each other by claiming those who disagree with you are going to hell because they don’t attend the Tridentine mass? You applauded a post that said that-so much for respect

 

[LeroyCRHP]

I agree this whole “My mass is better than your Mass” (remember that dog food commercial?) mentality is damaging. This thread is as silly as a thread “How To Practice NO At The TLM” where we could talk about standing with our hands out waiting for communion and such.

BOTH masses are beautiful and there is room for each in the church. They are both competely valid.

YBIC
Leroy

If you find yourself more spiritually fulfilled with the Tridentine Mass that’s great . But the idea that anyone who does not agree with you is sinning and their souls are in danger because they prefer the English Mass Is absolutely specious. It is elitism and legalism at its worst . It is exactly what St. Paul was railing againt in his letter to the Galatians. I have the full force of the Pope and the magisterium behind me-you have only your personal interpretation of history.

 

[wisdomseeker]

So you show respect for each other by claiming those who disagree with you are going to hell because they don’t attend the Tridentine mass? You applauded a post that said that-so much for respect

i think you misunderstood me. yes, i am against the modernization in the Mass. but i never said that anybody is going to hell. that is up to God.

all i am saying is that we dont need to be angry with one another. you must understand that many are upset with the changes in the Mass and so am i. that is all.

we need to encourage one another.

Peace of Christ be upon us.

 

[estesbob]

I agree this whole “My mass is better than your Mass” (remember that dog food commercial?) mentality is damaging. This thread is as silly as a thread “How To Practice NO At The TLM” where we could talk about standing with our hands out waiting for communion and such.

BOTH masses are beautiful and there is room for each in the church. They are both competely valid.

YBIC
Leroy

Could not agree more. It is funny but it is only in this area that I am accused of being a liberal. Usually people are complaining that I too conservative. Having been raised on the Tridentine mass and having been told that there were never abuses all I cansay is they never served 6 AM mass with pastor of the church I attended then.!

 

[estesbob]

i think you misunderstood me. yes, i am against the modernization in the Mass. but i never said that anybody is going to hell. that is up to God.

all i am saying is that we dont need to be angry with one another. you must understand that many are upset with the changes in the Mass and so am i. that is all.

we need to encourage one another.

Peace of Christ be upon us.

Then why did you post a big amen to a post that said:

it it sinful to assist at such a service and the more the militant support it the more souls will be lost because of it

 

[wisdomseeker]

Then why did you post a big amen to a post that said:

because he is right to speak against the changes in the Mass. and i can that many dont realize what is going. because they dont read about what is going. we do. many do not want to bother. some just dont say anything.

Jesus once said: the Pharisees did not go Heaven and would not let others go either.

in my parish i see many who adhere easily to the protestants songs, the clapping and the jokes. i dont.

i get upset when the priest thinks that jokes are ok during Mass. clapping and be joyfull people everything is good, when we hear no mention of priests and laity people being beheaded and killed in other parts of World. no mention of prayers for these people.

Let us call upon the Lord, cry out to God.

 

[estesbob]

because he is right to speak against the changes in the Mass. and i can that many dont realize what is going. because they dont read about what is going. we do. many do not want to bother. some just dont say anything.

There is a huge difference between criticizing some of the abuses that might happen and claimimg that all those who participate in the Modern Mass are sinning and putting their souls in danger . By that logic both the Pope and the some 50,000 people who attended the Mass he celebrated at Yankee Stadium are all in danger of going to hell merely by the fact they attended this Mass. I went to Mass.last night and hdeld Our Lord and Savior in my hand and yet have been told in this thread that I have inned merely by attending that Mass.

Jesus once said: the Pharisees did not go Heaven and would not let others go either.

And the reason he said this was an objection to their legalistic ways. Sound familiar?

in my parish i see many who adhere easily to the protestants songs, the clapping and the jokes. i dont.

i get upset when the priest thinks that jokes are ok during Mass. clapping and be joyfull people everything is good, when we hear no mention of priests and laity people being beheaded and killed in other parts of World. no mention of prayers for these people.

I have the same problem. I cringe when the priest tells a joke and refuse to clap hands no matter how worthy the cause may be. Fortunately at our Mass last night my pastor made a comparison between the lepers who had to present themselves to the priests to prove themselves clean and the need for Joe Biden Nancy Pelosi and othe pro-abortion Catholic Democrats to reconcile themselves with the Church. I left that Mass feeling very spiritually uplifted, little did I know that I had greviously sinned merely by being there.

\

 

[wisdomseeker]

There is a huge difference between criticizing some of the abuses that might happen and claimimg that all those who participate in the Modern Mass are sinning and putting their souls in danger . By that logic both the Pope and the some 50,000 people who attended the Mass he celebrated at Yankee Stadium are all in danger of going to hell merely by the fact they attended this Mass. I went to Mass.last night and hdeld Our Lord and Savior in my hand and yet have been told in this thread that I have inned merely by attending that Mass.

And the reason he said this was an objection to their legalistic ways. Sound familiar?

I have the same problem. I cringe when the priest tells a joke and refuse to clap hands no matter how worthy the cause may be. Fortunately at our Mass last night my pastor made a comparison between the lepers who had to present themselves to the priests to prove themselves clean and the need for Joe Biden Nancy Pelosi and othe pro-abortion Catholic Democrats to reconcile themselves with the Church. I left that Mass feeling very spiritually uplifted, little did I know that I had greviously sinned merely by being there.

\

i dont criticise the people but those in charge. we are just followers. they are the ones who will account for our souls.

even so, we must remain hopefull that the Lord will get us out of this. today, i went to an Orthodox church, it just fell right their service and it also reminded me of how we used to be.
we cannot deny the infiltration of protestantism into the CC. and that is very sad.

Peace.

 

[asnlady]

I’m in a similar situation living in the Los Angeles area. We have a lot of parishes, so I just chose the least liberal to attend. Our priest does everything but openly endorse Pro Choicers like Obama. Lots of mass attendees show up dressed not unlike strippers and soccer players. Even the older crowd love to just chit chat until the mass begins. They obviously dont believe in the real presense. But I guess that makes sense since they were of the generation that dumped Latin. I’ve learned that you won’t win any friends nor affect any change by complaining. You (and me) are just parish members. I guess if you are on the governing board or something, that might be different. The best thing you can do is continue to wear your suit, genuflect, and the like. Become an example to follow, not a sour apple.

 

[LeroyCRHP]

Sounds like people around me and especially my kids! I consider myself open, but others describe me as hard right

I attend daily mass at 8AM on the way to work and that church uses a glass chalice and thought of this thread…

Could not agree more. It is funny but it is only in this area that I am accused of being a liberal. Usually people are complaining that I too conservative. Having been raised on the Tridentine mass and having been told that there were never abuses all I cansay is they never served 6 AM mass with pastor of the church I attended then.!

 

[william_menke]

holy moley !!! Looks like a few agree with me and it’s clear we hit a sensitive note…since 1965 you and your modernist friends have driven 80% of the Catholic faithful out of the Church, caused cnurches and schools to be shut down, emptied out the convents and seminaries and left them with the continuing stench of putrid homosexuality…the only thing left for you to destroy the faith was to destroy the liturgy and thank God this Pope has stopped you from doing that…maybe prayer warrior is really code for Granmer

 

[tnbella7]

I tried to read all the posts regarding the original question, but it seemed to get sidetracked. So sorry if I am repeating a suggestion.

My one suggestion would be try to find someone else at the parish who can perhaps be a spiritual mentor. Hopefully not everyone is of the “Lifeteen” variety - surely there is someone with a more conservative bend. And if you don’t find someone, remember you are answerable to God in the long run, so find your place, make your own place there and during the Mass. You may be a beacon to others who feel the same way but aren’t as brave and outspoken. God bless.

 

[polkadots]

I was baptized and confirmed on Easter 2007 after going through the RCIA program. I live in rural Tennessee. There are not that many Catholic parishes around here. The only one that is a viable option is an extremely “open” liberal parish. I drive to the Cathedral every once in a while and attend a latin novus ordo mass occasionally at another parish far away but neither option is practical.

I have tried to be as traditional and conservative as possible in my parish and I stick out like a sore thumb. I am one of a few people who wears a suit to all the masses. I am one of a few people that receive communion on tongue, etc. When I tried to receive communion kneeling it caused a scene and I have not attempted since. The priest has asked that we not do that, so I haven’t. I am trying to discern a vocation to the priesthood, so I naturally went to my priest for spiritual direction, I knew he was liberal but had no idea until I talked with him for this long. He is for a married priesthood, ordination of women, further liberalization of the mass, referred to the Vatican as a good 'ol boy’s club and explained that was the reason we did not have women priests. He thinks it is odd that I go to weekly confession and come to mass numerous times a week. He thinks its odder still that I want the tridentine mass and am drawn to numerous aspects of pre-Vatican II culture. He has bluntly stated that I cannot long for these things because I have never experienced them. I am now seeking another spiritual director who I hope is more conservative but it just isn’t practical to attend another parish. The masses are loud and distracting and people attend wearing soccer jerseys and swim wear. I will not even mention the lifeteen masses, but I think you can imagine. No one genuflects when passing the Blessed Sacrament. I have only heard three hymns that even sounded Catholic thus far. The rest of the hymns seem to be those “praise band” types. The crucifix is so small and the church design so modern that I can safely say that I have been to Methodist churches that looked more Catholic.

Perhaps I am over-sensitive to perceived “protestanization” because I have been around Protestants my entire life but perhaps not. All I have done since converting is study thelogy, philosophy, Church history, and latin. As I have studied I have become more and more conservative and more and more uncomfortable in my parish. Yet as a convert and teenager I am out of place to make any kind of open criticism of my parish, much less of my priest so I keep silent but is there anything I can do to be traditional in this very non-traditional parish?

pax vobiscum

I think that even if he has very different views from you, he should be happy about someone wanting to attend mass everyday and should try to encourage you in you faith. I’m not a traditionalist, I don’t even know why I read the posts on this forum (curiosity I guess), but I think his behavior was very hurtful. I’m sorry he said he thought it was odd. Shouldn’t everyone try to receive our Lord in Holy Communion as often as possible? If we really believe in the Real Presence, I sometimes wonder why we ignore Him in it so often? Jesus is in our tabernacles and I feel like a criminal when I go in to try and adore Him because of others’ judgement. Peace to you!

Have you read the diary of St. Faustina? I think you might really like it.

 

[narrowpath]

I’m in a similar situation living in the Los Angeles area. We have a lot of parishes, so I just chose the least liberal to attend. Our priest does everything but openly endorse Pro Choicers like Obama. Lots of mass attendees show up dressed not unlike strippers and soccer players. Even the older crowd love to just chit chat until the mass begins. They obviously dont believe in the real presense. But I guess that makes sense since they were of the generation that dumped Latin. I’ve learned that you won’t win any friends nor affect any change by complaining. You (and me) are just parish members. I guess if you are on the governing board or something, that might be different. The best thing you can do is continue to wear your suit, genuflect, and the like. Become an example to follow, not a sour apple.

Man, we are going to be spending the next century or so fixing that generations mistakes…seriously, what happened. It seems like in just a few years any and all tradition was regarded as idiotic, and morals went down the drain.

St. Michael, Archangel, defend us in battle against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray, and do thou, oh Prince of the Heavenly Host, by the power of God, thrust into Hell, Satan, and all the evil spirits who wonder throughout the world, seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

I’m in a similar situation living in the Los Angeles area. We have a lot of parishes, so I just chose the least liberal to attend. Our priest does everything but openly endorse Pro Choicers like Obama. Lots of mass attendees show up dressed not unlike strippers and soccer players. Even the older crowd love to just chit chat until the mass begins. They obviously dont believe in the real presense. But I guess that makes sense since they were of the generation that dumped Latin. I’ve learned that you won’t win any friends nor affect any change by complaining. You (and me) are just parish members. I guess if you are on the governing board or something, that might be different. The best thing you can do is continue to wear your suit, genuflect, and the like. Become an example to follow, not a sour apple.

Asnlady,

The teaching of the Church is clear on this issue. Like you I live in a liberal parish…I am labled as a conservative. However I’m not going to sit around smiling and twiddling my thumbs while my parish priest introduces scandelous liturgical practices, distorts the clear teachings of the Church, turns his head while our DRE waters down religious training, the book club prefers to read heretical books rather than Catholic ones, etc.

I’ve chosen to speak out in a strong, clear…but respectful voice. I have crosses swords with the pastor on a number of issues verbally and in writing and asked him to stop certain practices. He doesn’t like it but he cannot argue that the points I respectfully raise reflect Church dogma, Apostolic Tradition or the Universal and Ordinary Teachings of the Church. I have crossed swords with the RCIA Director and stopped his teaching of certain heresies dealing with forming a Catholic conscience.

As I said in previous posts in this thread…and I’ve given numerous citations to support my comments…a person risks becoming an accomplice to the sin if they sit by while someone spreads scandal by taking communion while publically persevering in manifest grave sin…that is Church teaching.

Do the liberal elements of the parish like it…no. Does the priest like it…no. Does the DRE like it…no. Do most of these people avoid me like I have the plague…yes. Am I excluded from participating in some of the ministries…yes. Does it stop me from commenting or getting involved anyway…no.

The key is to ground your complaints in Catholic doctrine, be respectful in manner and language, be persistant and show a little backbone. You can make a difference.

I’m not going to participate further in this thread because too many of the arguments are specious in nature and the teaching of the Church on this matter is clear.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[wisdomseeker]

Asnlady,

The teaching of the Church is clear on this issue. Like you I live in a liberal parish…I am labled as a conservative. However I’m not going to sit around smiling and twiddling my thumbs while my parish priest introduces scandelous liturgical practices, distorts the clear teachings of the Church, turns his head while our DRE waters down religious training, the book club prefers to read heretical books rather than Catholic ones, etc.

I’ve chosen to speak out in a strong, clear…but respectful voice. I have crosses swords with the pastor on a number of issues verbally and in writing and asked him to stop certain practices. He doesn’t like it but he cannot argue that the points I respectfully raise reflect Church dogma, Apostolic Tradition or the Universal and Ordinary Teachings of the Church. I have crossed swords with the RCIA Director and stopped his teaching of certain heresies dealing with forming a Catholic conscience.

As I said in previous posts in this thread…and I’ve given numerous citations to support my comments…a person risks becoming an accomplice to the sin if they sit by while someone spreads scandal by taking communion while publically persevering in manifest grave sin…that is Church teaching.

Do the liberal elements of the parish like it…no. Does the priest like it…no. Does the DRE like it…no. Do most of these people avoid me like I have the plague…yes. Am I excluded from participating in some of the ministries…yes. Does it stop me from commenting or getting involved anyway…no.

The key is to ground your complaints in Catholic doctrine, be respectful in manner and language, be persistant and show a little backbone. You can make a difference.

I’m not going to participate further in this thread because too many of the arguments are specious in nature and the teaching of the Church on this matter is clear.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

i agree with you. if we think about it priests also need support. they need to be told they are out of line. he needs to know they have our support if he is carry on the Traditions of the Church. i think some of them are even afraid of the liberals and cant do what is right.

God bless.