How to bring someone back to the faith

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Anglewannabe

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I was talking to a woman at work. I asked her if she was religious (our relationship is such that it was safe to ask this question). It was the classic story that she was brought up Catholic, was educated by nuns (that she was quick to point out were mean but come to think of it, I think she is from the generation where all teachers probably were mean because of the time but that is a different post) and then said 'and after all the sex scandals came out, it was the last straw and she left the church.

It is a common story and I know that most of the classic arguments such as ‘what they did was wrong and you should forgive them’ would be a waste of words. So it got me thinking, what should one say to them that would not make them roll their eyes?

Thoughts ?

Angie
 
I usually say that my faith is in Christ and His church, not people.
 
You could say that, even though the priests held positions in the Church, they disobeyed Her teaching and committed sins against the innocent, thereby making themselves false representations of Mother Church. The Church condemns their behavior and they have excommunicated themselves from Her through mortal sin. The Church shouldn’t be condemned for the few of its priests that have committed atrocious crimes of their own accord through the abuse of their power because She abhors their sin as a scandalous offense before Almighty God.

For a true representation of the Church, look at the countless holy priests & saints that shine forth the example of what it means to live according to Her teaching. These are replete in the Church, but the media will only cover the wicked members because it is juicy & scandalous, and the devil is quick to jump at any opportunity to deter souls from the only source of salvation. Even if sin has permeated some of the Church, it doesn’t negate the fact that extra Ecclesiam nulla salus. The Church teaches the truth and is the only true way to God whether Her members are on their way to God or not.
 
Don’t try to force conversion. Just let the truth out and try to let God work through your actions.

Ask her to judge belief systems by those who follow them, not those who claim to but break the rules of said systems.
 
Some sisters may have been harsh but did so because back then, strict discipline was thought to be the best way to teach. Plus nuns like many groups of people had wide ranges of personalities, some were short tempered. Luckily many of the nuns I had were very kind and mild mannered…

One of the nuns I originally thought was harse probably was irritable because she was not eating very much. One day we found out that the only thing she had for lunch was an apple.
Being hungry most of the time can do a number of ones disposition. Plus she ran a tight ship and discipline was high on her list of priorities. Her philosophy was spare the rod ruin the child…

Most folks now think that is outdated, but I also see a lot of spoiled kids now a days, and a few raps across the knuckles would probably do them a world of good. (And land the teacher in jail)… Nuns discipline because they cared about developing good kids… Teachers who don’t give a rats behind look the other way and do nothing…

As for the child abuse, nothing can excuse that evil behavior… But it is not Catholicism that promotes that evil and the vast majority of priests are not involved in such things.

Getting rid of the abusers is important but that is no excuse to leave Gods church. Our faith dose not condone such behavior and is taking steps to eliminate it.
 
Ask her how her life has been without the Holy Eucharist…Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ? I certainly wouldn’t want to try?

God Bless You.
 
pianistclare said:
I usually say that my faith is in Christ and His church, not people.
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Anglewannabe said:
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I would probably ask them, “why turn away from the very thing that gives those people the greatest rebuke for what they are/were doing?”

“Never judge a philosophy by it’s abuse.”
  • St Augustine
I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
Even the devil goes to church to distract the faithfuls. Why then would you leave the church risking losing the grace of God that protects us from all evil?
 
You could maybe say something like, “You don’t have to judge Christ’s teachings by the people who claim to follow them.”
 
The only objective reason to reject a teaching is if the teaching is false.
 
If you want to bring someone back to the Church the first thing you need to do is take her objections seriously. If you say something like “lots of teachers were mean” or “you have to just ignore the sex abuse scandal and focus on the good things” what you’re saying in essence, “your objections are meaningless.” (And that usually comes across as “you are meaningless.”)

If I have a strong objection to something, I don’t want someone to dismiss my concern and tell me it simply doesn’t matter. That’s not the way to change my mind or my heart.

You might try being honest and accepting of what she says. How do YOU feel about the sex abuse scandal? Has it shaken your faith at all? Have you ever considered leaving because of the evil taking place?

If I were talking with this woman I would agree with her that these priests never should have done what they did and the bishops shouldn’t have covered it up. Even though I know that priests are human and sin like everyone else, honestly I hold them to a higher standard. And, unfortunately, some of them failed miserably, hurting their victims, the victims’ families and friends, their parishes, and the Church as a whole.

And then I would talk about why I stay in the Church despite these things. I have never – to my knowledge – met an abusive priest. I have, however, met priests who have been examples of Christian love. More than that, I believe the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus and is the best way for me to have a deeper, richer relationship with God. I could go elsewhere, or nowhere at all, but without the sacraments, the prayer support, and the community, I would be lost.

I don’t think you convert someone with one liners. I think it takes a conversation based on love, respect, honesty, and probably some vulnerability on your part.
 
SuscipeMeDomine said:
If you want to bring someone back to the Church the first thing you need to do is take her objections seriously. If you say something like “lots of teachers were mean” or “you have to just ignore the sex abuse scandal and focus on the good things” what you’re saying in essence, “your objections are meaningless.” (And that usually comes across as “you are meaningless.”)

If I have a strong objection to something, I don’t want someone to dismiss my concern and tell me it simply doesn’t matter. That’s not the way to change my mind or my heart.

You might try being honest and accepting of what she says. How do YOU feel about the sex abuse scandal? Has it shaken your faith at all? Have you ever considered leaving because of the evil taking place?

If I were talking with this woman I would agree with her that these priests never should have done what they did and the bishops shouldn’t have covered it up. Even though I know that priests are human and sin like everyone else, honestly I hold them to a higher standard. And, unfortunately, some of them failed miserably, hurting their victims, the victims’ families and friends, their parishes, and the Church as a whole.

And then I would talk about why I stay in the Church despite these things. I have never – to my knowledge – met an abusive priest. I have, however, met priests who have been examples of Christian love. More than that, I believe the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus and is the best way for me to have a deeper, richer relationship with God. I could go elsewhere, or nowhere at all, but without the sacraments, the prayer support, and the community, I would be lost.

I don’t think you convert someone with one liners. I think it takes a conversation based on love, respect, honesty, and probably some vulnerability on your part.
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Beautifully stated. I too, have never met a “mean” nun, and I went to Catholic schools as a youngster. They were all dear to me. But I have relatives that loathed these women. 🤷

There are all kinds of people on the planet. Same with the Church.
You don’t have to pass a test to enter.
But you do have a test to graduate to eternal life. 😉
 
What I am thinking is that what the woman told you may not be the real reasons that she left the church. As someone who was gone for about 30 years, I would not have responded well to anyone who would try to convince me to return during that time. And my “real” reason was not the mean nuns (yes, I had them) but because I just didn’t want to follow the rules, disagreed with some of the things like birth control and basically didn’t want anyone telling me what to do. So, I think if she is going to return she will do it as I did in her own time and in her own way.
 
SuscipeMeDomine said:
If you want to bring someone back to the Church the first thing you need to do is take her objections seriously. If you say something like “lots of teachers were mean” or “you have to just ignore the sex abuse scandal and focus on the good things” what you’re saying in essence, “your objections are meaningless.” (And that usually comes across as “you are meaningless.”)

If I have a strong objection to something, I don’t want someone to dismiss my concern and tell me it simply doesn’t matter. That’s not the way to change my mind or my heart.

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You must have read my mind. That is perhaps what I was really asking. How do I take her concerns seriously without hiding my opinion or watering down the faith.

Also, it was a quick conversation at the coffee pot so I really didn’t have time to go into detail. Perhaps next time I will make a statement such as ‘I am sorry the nuns did not treat you right’
 
Sunbreak said:
What I am thinking is that what the woman told you may not be the real reasons that she left the church. As someone who was gone for about 30 years, I would not have responded well to anyone who would try to convince me to return during that time. And my “real” reason was not the mean nuns (yes, I had them) but because I just didn’t want to follow the rules, disagreed with some of the things like birth control and basically didn’t want anyone telling me what to do. So, I think if she is going to return she will do it as I did in her own time and in her own way.
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Thank you for the insight. I think that is why a lot of people leave since I know some fallen away Catholics that never had a mean nun r priest
 
Anglewannabe said:
I was talking to a woman at work. I asked her if she was religious (our relationship is such that it was safe to ask this question). It was the classic story that she was brought up Catholic, was educated by nuns (that she was quick to point out were mean but come to think of it, I think she is from the generation where all teachers probably were mean because of the time but that is a different post) and then said 'and after all the sex scandals came out, it was the last straw and she left the church.

It is a common story and I know that most of the classic arguments such as ‘what they did was wrong and you should forgive them’ would be a waste of words. So it got me thinking, what should one say to them that would not make them roll their eyes?

Thoughts ?

Angie
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I agree with the approach of explaining that the bad actions of a small number of priests doesn’t discredit what the Church teaches. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there who can’t get past that. I have several friends who point to the abuse scandal as the defining episode of their faith life, that it hurt them terribly and left them an emotional wreck. Granted, they weren’t abused and don’t know anyone who was, but it’s still their scapegoat for leaving the Church.
 
Gordon_Sims said:
Granted, they weren’t abused and don’t know anyone who was, but it’s still their scapegoat for leaving the Church.
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This type of attitude, so prevalent on these boards, is a perfect example of how not to bring someone back to the faith. It’s almost comical.

To suggest that abuse scandal, and more importantly the cover up, that reached the upper echelons of the Catholic Hierarchy, lacks legitimacy as a serious stumbling block to faith is exactly why you will never bring your friends back to faith. Trying to minimize is the exact wrong approach. It makes me wonder sometimes. If knowing that Legionaire founder Maciel held a place of honor with the Pope, whispering in his ear…all the while allegations of almost unbelievable impropriety flying around while nothing was done…if that doesn’t make you wince and wonder even slightly that “my goodness, how far does this evil pervade our Church,” …if that can’t make you sympathize with those whose faith has been rocked, then I’m quite certain you will never be able to connect with them and bring them back. It would be far better to not engage those who have lost their faith…you will only reinforce their loss.
 
Rico_S said:
This type of attitude, so prevalent on these boards, is a perfect example of how not to bring someone back to the faith. It’s almost comical.

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I agree, we need to show sympathy to the victims. What I try to do is say 'The abuse that happened was horrible. Sadly, sometime the church is restricted by the times and often back then there was no protection for victims. Even parents got away with abusing kids because the laws were so different.

At least the Catholic church is finally giving their victims a voice
 
Priests and nuns are human too and not free from sin.

We should not turn away from Christ and His Church because of the actions of a small group of people. Their actions have been hurtful and damaging, but if we are part of the faithful we can try to make things better. As terrible as the sex scandals have been, it has caused new guidelines to be put in place, to try to prevent these men from entering the priesthood.
 
This always happens when people worship the Church (or any religion) itself and not God. They inevitably find that the Church is full of people doing bad things and rightly decide that it isn’t worth worshiping.

Of course, someone may say that if people who belong to a religion aren’t very good, then there must be something wrong with that religion. But it is much better to look at the people who live the teachings of the religion as well as possible to determine whether those teachings are good or not. It makes no sense to measure a medication’s effectiveness by looking at the health of people who aren’t taking it as prescribed. It’s better to judge based on those who follow the instructions on the label.
 
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