How to choose a parish? Or does the parish choose you?

[Horton]

Hi all, I’m new to the faith, went through RCIA through the parish that was closest to my home, and I’m curious if most people stay at the parish they join, or move on to other parishes. It seems there’s not really a wrong answer, but I’ve heard a lot of members of the one I’ve attended mention that they shopped around for a parish.

So really, I guess this isn’t necessarily just a question for people who joined through RCIA, you could also kidna shop around if you move to an area that has many parishes, as it seems larger cities do. If you shopped around and didn’t just go to the parish down the street from you, what did you look for in a new Catholic home?

Yes, I have loads more questions about the faith in general, ha ha, this isn’t the most important probably, but it what’s on my mind today. Thank you in advance!

When I moved a couple of years ago I had a choice between two parishes, one in the town I lived in and another in a town about 10 miles away. I was inclined to choose the parish in the other town mainly because they have a beautiful old church and are more traditional. The parish in my town is a more modern building and style as well as more contemporary. I went to the one in my town to see what it was like before making the choice. I came from a very traditional parish and it is one of the things I love in the Catholic Church.

It ended up the parish in my town choosing me. While I still consider myself traditional, I love my parish. It is vibrant, alive, active, multi cultural, and filled with people who live their faith. Some of the things that annoy me I can live with but I can’t live without my faith family.

 

[oldrover]

We attend a church that is less than a block away. Many in our neighborhood attend here. I’ve never lived that close to my church before (converted in 2010)… it really feels like part of my home.

 

[Casilda]

That is not true.

You are making false assumption about how diocese in the US treat canon law, and without any basis for your assumptions.

How many bishops have you interviewed? How many have you asked “do you ignore canon law with regard to parish boundaries?” Do you have any facts, any actual evidence that supports what you claim? How many vicars judicial have you interviewed? How many vicars general have you interviewed?

Your claim is that it is typical for diocese in the US to disregard canon law. If you are going to make that claim, it is your responsibility to be able to support that claim with facts.

Where are your facts?

That is a little harsh as I find the exact same situation in the Roman diocese I live in as Elizium’s. The parish whose boundary I live in had no priest and an incompetent staff had no idea how to help me. I called, I left messages, I showed up in person. No one ever got back to me. Ever.

It may not be the Bishop that is lax but the priest or the staff. One rarely has the opportunity to speak with a priest, never mind a Bishop. And I did have the opportunity to speak with a judicial vicar, but it was on matters of marriage irregularities.

Church laity rarely are granted time to speak with a priest or Bishop. There are simply too many of us badly educated souls and not enough priests to shepherd us.

So, we go where we find a shepherd. Even if its in another diocese.

 

[FrDavid96]

That is a little harsh as I find the exact same situation in the Roman diocese I live in as Elizium’s. The parish whose boundary I live in had no priest and an incompetent staff had no idea how to help me. I called, I left messages, I showed up in person. No one ever got back to me. Ever.

It may not be the Bishop that is lax but the priest or the staff. One rarely has the opportunity to speak with a priest, never mind a Bishop. And I did have the opportunity to speak with a judicial vicar, but it was on matters of marriage irregularities.

Church laity rarely are granted time to speak with a priest or Bishop. There are simply too many of us badly educated souls and not enough priests to shepherd us.

So, we go where we find a shepherd. Even if its in another diocese.

You mean they did not have any Sunday Masses?

If they did not have a priest, then that necessarily means they did not have Sunday Masses.

Were they doing the Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest instead?

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

I think every member of a parish is important, even if they are just sitting in the pew each Sunday, even if they don’t contribute financially. We need diversity in life, as well as in our parishes.
…

I’ve done my share of parish-hopping for some of the above reasons, and I’m grateful for the ability to choose, but I strongly disagree with your assumption that just because somebody isn’t involved beyond attending Mass and donating money that they are not an important part of a parish.

It is different for each situation. For some, it is better to leave than to stay. For us, we found it in our best interest to leave the modernist parish that we were attending for the sake of our spiritual formation, especially that of my younger brother. Leaving the parish actually got a member of my family to start going to Mass & Confession again.

Some parishioners have it within their power to bring change to the parish and to make it better, but most parishioners can’t do this. If they can, then maybe they should stay, but if they can’t then they should be able to leave for the sake of their souls. I have always been the parishioner that sits in the pews each week and never talks to anyone or is even noticed; the parish will not be affected by my absence and I think they are glad I left.

 

[twf]

For those who say that only registration / envelopes matter and that pastors disregard territorial boundaries, this misleading. Father is of course 100% right. Yes, you are free to attend mass at any parish, to go to confession at any parish, even to register, donate to, and become involved in ministry in any parish… but you always remain a canonical member of your geographical parish and this does matter. It definitely matters when it comes to matters such as marriage. It is the province of your canonical pastor to witness your marriage or to at least grant permission for your marriage to be witnessed outside of the parish by another priest. When I got married, I obtained a dispensation from canonical form which was requested on my behalf by my canonical pastor.

Of course you can have more than one canonical parish if you maintain more than one home. For some time I was under the jurisdiction of two bishops and two pastors. As the two domiciles were also in two countries (and hence different episcopal conferences), the holy days of obligation varied, so my obligations depended on which home I happened to be residing at on any given day.

 

[signit]

For those who say that only registration / envelopes matter and that pastors disregard territorial boundaries, this misleading. Father is of course 100% right. Yes, you are free to attend mass at any parish, to go to confession at any parish, even to register, donate to, and become involved in ministry in any parish… but you always remain a canonical member of your geographical parish and this does matter. It definitely matters when it comes to matters such as marriage. It is the province of your canonical pastor to witness your marriage or to at least grant permission for your marriage to be witnessed outside of the parish by another priest. When I got married, I obtained a dispensation from canonical form which was requested on my behalf by my canonical pastor.

Father is obviously right about what the rule is, and this has come up before.

I think, though, what the other poster is trying to say is that it might not always be enforced.

When the question came up before it was said that the importance of “membership” is related to the provision of services (wedding, funeral, etc.) and a parish is not required to provide services to someone who is not a member.

In my town there are three Catholic parishes, and it’s possible that one parish might agree to provide services to anyone in the town. I’ve never heard of parish boundaries being a real issue in my town.

I know that my grandfather always went to St. A (where his family went) instead of St. B (closer to where he lived). His funeral was at St. A; his daughter’s wedding was at St. A; and I never heard of any controversy about it.

 

[babochka]

It is different for each situation. For some, it is better to leave than to stay. For us, we found it in our best interest to leave the modernist parish that we were attending for the sake of our spiritual formation, especially that of my younger brother. Leaving the parish actually got a member of my family to start going to Mass & Confession again.

Some parishioners have it within their power to bring change to the parish and to make it better, but most parishioners can’t do this. If they can, then maybe they should stay, but if they can’t then they should be able to leave for the sake of their souls. I have always been the parishioner that sits in the pews each week and never talks to anyone or is even noticed; the parish will not be affected by my absence and I think they are glad I left.

Oh, I sympathize. I’ve been there, and I’ve ultimately made the decision to switch parishes. I speak in theory and from the comfortable point of view of someone in a parish that I love.

 

[Casilda]

Some parishioners have it within their power to bring change to the parish and to make it better, but most parishioners can’t do this. If they can, then maybe they should stay, but if they can’t then they should be able to leave for the sake of their souls.

 

[FrDavid96]

I can assure you, there has been plenty of controversy in the U.S. in recent decades about this very issue.

Many diocese (especially in areas that have historically had a large Catholic presence) have gone through parish re-structuring in the last 20 years or so. Parishes have been closed, merged, clustered, re-drawn, etc. etc.

Imagine someone from one of those diocese who (for whatever reason) is less-than-pleased with the new parish boundaries. Now imagine that person turning to the internet and looking for more information. How likely is it that such a person might (just might) find his way to a thread like this one on CAF? Does this scenario seem unrealistic?

Now, such a person is looking for answers. That person wants to know the truth. Is that person entitled to actually know the truth about what the Church’s canon law has to say on the subject? or is that person better served by getting anecdotal answers from people who have probably never even read the relevant canons, much less (much much less) understand what those canons say?

What kind of information better serves a person who has such questions?

I would really like people to answer that: what kind of answers best serve a Catholic who has questions about an issue that is clearly defined in canon law? Answers based on what the Code actually says, or answers based on a handful of examples where canon law has been ignored?

Another situation:
A person is unsure about how the Church defines a parish. That person comes to CAF with questions, or merely reads others’ questions and the responses. That person decides, based on what was read on CAF, to disregard parish territory. Here’s the kicker: years later, that person finds himself in a difficult situation because he followed the advice of people on CAF and disregarded parish territory. Does anyone here really think that such a person can go to his pastor & bishop and tell them that they are obligated to ignore canon law based on the fact that the individual was misinformed by comments on CAF?

I’d really like to know the answers to the 2 questions I’ve posted (bolded) above.

And finally, I must (yes must) make this comment: People who say that pastors and bishops in the US do not care about parish boundaries have no idea what they are talking about. Plain and simple. They are writing their comments from the perspective of complete ignorance of any facts. Some people seem to think that just because their weekly bulletins don’t include a map of the parish territory, that means that such a thing does not exist, or that the pastors and bishops do not care. That’s not the case at all.

There are always going to be a few examples of parish territories that are not exactly defined very clearly; maybe a rural parish that was founded 150 years ago, or a town with 2 parishes whose territories might overlap or otherwise be a bit vague. It’s never going to be 100% perfect. That does not mean that the matter is irrelevant nor does it mean that it’s ignored.

There are about 200 diocese in the US. People who claim that those diocese don’t care about parish territory have not contacted anywhere near that number, and are not basing their claim on any solid, reliable information. On the contrary, they are basing that claim on nothing more than a few anecdotal examples, and their own personal lack of awareness of what happens between pastors, such as one pastor asking for permission or delegation from another pastor. The mere fact that someone might be able to show a handful of examples where exceptions to the law were made, is not (not by a long shot) an indication that the majority of bishops and pastors nationwide are all disregarding canon law.

 

[Casilda]

Imagine someone from one of those diocese who (for whatever reason) is less-than-pleased with the new parish boundaries. Now imagine that person turning to the internet and looking for more information. How likely is it that such a person might (just might) find his way to a thread like this one on CAF? Does this scenario seem unrealistic?
In many ways, I was this hypothetical person, so no, the scenario is not unrealistic.
Now, such a person is looking for answers. That person wants to know the truth. Is that person entitled to actually know the truth about what the Church’s canon law has to say on the subject? Yes, of course, they are entitled to the truth. I was not able to find the answers to my questions via several parishes. Blank stares from church volunteers, etc. had me fleeing to sources online for answers. The Vatican website should be any Catholic’s or seeker’s first stop for true answers.
What kind of information better serves a person who has such questions?

I would really like people to answer that: what kind of answers best serve a Catholic who has questions about an issue that is clearly defined in canon law? Answers based on what the Code actually says, or answers based on a handful of examples where canon law has been ignored? We are entitled here to share what our own experiences are regarding the local diocese’s practices. I am not the one disregarding canon law, I went to ‘my’ parish, ‘my’ parish could not help me. I sought help elsewhere.
Another situation:
A person is unsure about how the Church defines a parish. That person comes to CAF with questions, or merely reads others’ questions and the responses. That person decides, based on what was read on CAF, to disregard parish territory. Here’s the kicker: years later, that person finds himself in a difficult situation because he followed the advice of people on CAF and disregarded parish territory. Does anyone here really think that such a person can go to his pastor & bishop and tell them that they are obligated to ignore canon law based on the fact that the individual was misinformed by comments on CAF?

I’d really like to know the answers to the 2 questions I’ve posted (bolded) above.

And finally, I must (yes must) make this comment: People who say that pastors and bishops in the US do not care about parish boundaries have no idea what they are talking about. Plain and simple. They are writing their comments from the perspective of complete ignorance of any facts. Some people seem to think that just because their weekly bulletins don’t include a map of the parish territory, that means that such a thing does not exist, or that the pastors and bishops do not care. That’s not the case at all.
If it helps, I did learn about parish boundaries here at CAF
There are always going to be a few examples of parish territories that are not exactly defined very clearly; maybe a rural parish that was founded 150 years ago, or a town with 2 parishes whose territories might overlap or otherwise be a bit vague. It’s never going to be 100% perfect. That does not mean that the matter is irrelevant nor does it mean that it’s ignored.

There are about 200 diocese in the US. People who claim that those diocese don’t care about parish territory have not contacted anywhere near that number, and are not basing their claim on any solid, reliable information. On the contrary, they are basing that claim on nothing more than a few anecdotal examples, and their own personal lack of awareness of what happens between pastors, such as one pastor asking for permission or delegation from another pastor. The mere fact that someone might be able to show a handful of examples where exceptions to the law were made, is not (not by a long shot) an indication that the majority of bishops and pastors nationwide are all disregarding canon law.

You are encouraging me to go back to ‘my’ parish and interview the priest that is there now regarding this issue. I wonder if he enforces the boundary? How is it enforced? Does it split families? What if they want to attend Mass together? I would like to interview all the priests in the diocese, then copy the bishop my findings.

 

[Phemie]

I was in my 40s before I discovered that a priest from outslde your parish was supposed to get your Pastor’s permission before baptizing your child. I discovered that when I was the parish secretary and came across a notation in the Register of Baptism to the effect that the child had been baptized at St. Anne-de-Beaupré without permission. Why it was recorded in our Register of Baptism is a question for another day.

That came as a surprise to me since my first two children were baptized not only outside the parishes where I lived at the time but outside my diocese. We were a military family thus members of the Military Ordinariate for Canada. It never occurred to me to ask either of the two Padres if I could have the babies baptized elsewhere and the priest who baptized them (the Pastor of the parish where I was baptized and the priest who officiated at our wedding) never asked if I had permission from my Pastor.

Since I became aware of it I have made sure that there is a letter of permission from the Pastor provided to any parents who are planning to take their child “back home” to be baptized. And I make sure we get same from any family from outside seeking Baptism in our parish.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I can assure you, there has been plenty of controversy in the U.S. in recent decades about this very issue.

Many diocese (especially in areas that have historically had a large Catholic presence) have gone through parish re-structuring in the last 20 years or so. Parishes have been closed, merged, clustered, re-drawn, etc. etc.

Imagine someone from one of those diocese who (for whatever reason) is less-than-pleased with the new parish boundaries. Now imagine that person turning to the internet and looking for more information. How likely is it that such a person might (just might) find his way to a thread like this one on CAF? Does this scenario seem unrealistic?

Now, such a person is looking for answers. That person wants to know the truth. Is that person entitled to actually know the truth about what the Church’s canon law has to say on the subject? or is that person better served by getting anecdotal answers from people who have probably never even read the relevant canons, much less (much much less) understand what those canons say?

What kind of information better serves a person who has such questions?

I would really like people to answer that: what kind of answers best serve a Catholic who has questions about an issue that is clearly defined in canon law? Answers based on what the Code actually says, or answers based on a handful of examples where canon law has been ignored?

Another situation:
A person is unsure about how the Church defines a parish. That person comes to CAF with questions, or merely reads others’ questions and the responses. That person decides, based on what was read on CAF, to disregard parish territory. Here’s the kicker: years later, that person finds himself in a difficult situation because he followed the advice of people on CAF and disregarded parish territory. Does anyone here really think that such a person can go to his pastor & bishop and tell them that they are obligated to ignore canon law based on the fact that the individual was misinformed by comments on CAF?

I’d really like to know the answers to the 2 questions I’ve posted (bolded) above.

And finally, I must (yes must) make this comment: People who say that pastors and bishops in the US do not care about parish boundaries have no idea what they are talking about. Plain and simple. They are writing their comments from the perspective of complete ignorance of any facts. Some people seem to think that just because their weekly bulletins don’t include a map of the parish territory, that means that such a thing does not exist, or that the pastors and bishops do not care. That’s not the case at all.

There are always going to be a few examples of parish territories that are not exactly defined very clearly; maybe a rural parish that was founded 150 years ago, or a town with 2 parishes whose territories might overlap or otherwise be a bit vague. It’s never going to be 100% perfect. That does not mean that the matter is irrelevant nor does it mean that it’s ignored.

There are about 200 diocese in the US. People who claim that those diocese don’t care about parish territory have not contacted anywhere near that number, and are not basing their claim on any solid, reliable information. On the contrary, they are basing that claim on nothing more than a few anecdotal examples, and their own personal lack of awareness of what happens between pastors, such as one pastor asking for permission or delegation from another pastor. The mere fact that someone might be able to show a handful of examples where exceptions to the law were made, is not (not by a long shot) an indication that the majority of bishops and pastors nationwide are all disregarding canon law.

I just want to commend Father David for his answer. Not simply the correctness of the facts and the reality that these issues are of fundamental importance to Catholic life – but also the various consequences he so well indicates when people are blithe to dismiss the canons and their importance. It is most especially true that one should not, by a dismissive attitude, be encouraging others to violate the norms of canon law.

I must confess that I am interested now in reading the answers of those who respond to Father David’s questions.

 

[adawgj]

Geographically speaking there is only one Catholic parish where I live so my options are rather limited when choosing a parish. If you live by parishes that are closer to each other I would go mass at some of them and meet people and see which one fits the spiritual and community needs you desire.

 

[zab]

I must confess that I am interested now in reading the answers of those who respond to Father David’s questions.

Yes, that could be a matter to confess. Our human frailty sometimes causes us to anticipate what another or others will say next.

 

[Wesrock]

My wife and I moved early last year, and we church shopped for a few months before finding a place where we were comfortable. When my wife was going through RCIA, we were reminded that priests come and go, and a church is more than just the priest. The advice was that once we settled to stick it out as members of that community, even if we get a mediocre priest somewhere down the road.

I think I agree. Within reason.

Edit: Are there any resources to help with finding parish boundaries?

 

[rondirect]

Parish should be geographic.

That said, there a reasons to be active in a different local parish.

But, “I don’t like the music,” or “The homilies stink,” or “They hold hands during the Our Father,” or similar objections are not valid reasons.

My wife and my best friends suggested we should attend a parish with extraordinary form mass with them regularly. And we have attended with them before on occasion for special reasons. It was tempting, because of our friendship but I refused.

That said, my infirm mother in law lives with us, and often my wife attends our parish, and I attend another later Mass. We prefer to go to Mass together at our small parish, but it takes special arrangements.

But don’t shop around. That’s poison.

Why is “shopping around poison?” And I believe that music, homilies, pastors, etc. are valid reasons to do so. Why should you go to your local church and be miserable? For some one parish fits their needs, while for others it may not.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Originally Posted by Don Ruggero
I must confess that I am interested now in reading the answers of those who respond to Father David’s questions.

Yes, that could be a matter to confess. Our human frailty sometimes causes us to anticipate what another or others will say next.

I seem to have been misunderstood. I was expressing my interest in how people will answer Father David’s questions. I am not anticipating what anyone is going to say but I am genuinely interested, as a priest, in how they will answer.

 

[zab]

Originally Posted by Don Ruggero
I must confess that I am interested now in reading the answers of those who respond to Father David’s questions.

I seem to have been misunderstood. I was expressing my interest in how people will answer Father David’s questions. I am not anticipating what anyone is going to say but I am genuinely interested, as a priest, in how they will answer.

Then, why must you confess?

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

Then, why must you confess?

I don’t think Father is saying that he must go to Confession for this, rather he is confessing to us that he is interested in the answers to Fr. David’s questions, not as a sin but as a statement of fact.