How to deal with boyfriend's porn addiction

[EasterJoy]

I was referring to saying that a marriage was regrettable when it was known to be an invalid attempt or had to end in a separation with the bond remaining. Sometimes, two spouses who had to divorce or separate can wistfully say to each other, with no recrimination meant on either side: “We are both OK people, but it was a mistake to think we could live under the same roof in anything like peace. Our differences are too great, and we only became a near occasion of sin for each other.”

Yes, for as long as you are living under the same roof, you bite your tongue and keep your negative comments to yourself. You turn your negative thoughts about your spouse toward positive consideration about how to cope with your differences. If you destroy your affection for someone, it is hard to exert yourself to sacrifice for them in the way that spouses must do. Today’s troubles, today’s mistakes, and today’s challenges are enough work to address. You cannot hope to ask someone to start lifting when you lay the mistakes of a lifetime, yours and theirs, on their head.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Prodigal, there’s a saying I use to describe myself: God didn’t make no junk, and neither did my Mom & Dad.

The problem I have with your last post is that sometimes it’s absolutely factually accurate to ascribe sins exactly as they are.

There’s a moral equivalency at issue. Are the actions of a person who glances at his older brother’s Playboy a few times equivalent to those of pimp; a purveyor/seller of child pornography, etc.? If a person is making a genuine effort to lead a clean life and avoid temptation, I can nonetheless see a value in understanding that they are flawed; that they sin, etc., if for humility more than anything else. However, being humble and knowing I;m sinful is very different from telling myself “woe is me, I’m an awful sinner, and I therefore should only date awful sinners,” nor should my humility blind me into concluding that I belong with awful people.

Look, this board contains members who won’t even associate with non-Catholics. There was a thread on that a while back. IMHO, that’s crazy. Having said that, if I have a positive enough view of myself that I say “I don’t want to hang around with porn addicts because I think they’re losers, and I certainly won’t date them,” I’m not going to lose any sleep over that, nor would I tell my daughter she had done anything wrong if that is/was her attitude. * Heck, I want it to be her attitude,* and porn addicts better stay away from her, that I can assure you.

I think there’s a value in humility and in seeing ourselves as the flawed sinners we are, but I also think your post, taken to its logical conclusion, makes people into doormats who decide they can’t do better than to date people who fall into sin repeatedly.

**My **post?

It was St. Paul’s advice, bro. Not mine. St. Paul says that we should consider ourselves the chief of sinners.

His point is NOT that we are, objectively, the worst – obviously, we can’t ALL be the worst! But his point is that this attitude of being the worst is the most healthy attitude for us to have. Please, pray about that.

Does this mean I can’t tell my daughter not to marry a porn addict? No! Of course I will tell her that. But it’s not because she’s better, or more holy, than the addict. It’s because I don’t think the marriage will benefit her OR him. I don’t judge the soul of the porn addict, who has probably had to endure more suffering in life than me, and probably has much more excuse for his sin than I have for mine.

Objectively worse sins have objectively worse temporal consequences. It’s stupid to court those consequences. But that is a far cry from pronouncing oneself to be “pure” and others to be “unclean”.

 

[PolarGuy]

I knew you’d quote the same thing you did, Prodigal…

…so I’ll counter with 2 Corinthians, about Christ having no partnership with Beliar…

And we can be like Protestants and fight over the Bible!

If you want to think yourself among the worst of the worst…OK, be my guest. I can’t stop you.

But it’s probably not true.

By comparison, I’ll just…see things as they are: That I’m not the best; not the worst either (because I’m not a criminal; a terrorist; a thug; a loser, or lots of other bad things!); and I’ll try to be the best I can possibly be; and I’ll raise my kids accordingly.

It’s healthy to think ourselves the worst? Really? Sorry, we’ll have to agree to disagree. But to teach your kids that they’re the worst? I’m sorry – that’s crazy, in part because kids have no understanding of the nuances of humility. If parents want to teach their kids how awful the kids are (particularly girls), they shouldn’t don’t be surprised when the kids grow up to truly view themselves as awful – and to have problems with drugs; loser guys; eating disorders, etc., in part because their parents told them how awful they were growing up. Teach your kids that they are awful? Parents who do that shouldn’t be shocked to find that they raised doormats (who will probably hate them too). What a way to screw up a kid…

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I knew you’d quote the same thing you did, Prodigal…

…so I’ll counter with 2 Corinthians, about Christ having no partnership with Beliar…

Except that I never said we should marry porn addicts, much less unbelievers. So the 2 Cor. verse is completely consistent with what I’ve said.

And we can be like Protestants and fight over the Bible!

Catholics need to be a lot more literate in the Bible, yes.

It’s healthy to think ourselves the worst? Really? Sorry, we’ll have to agree to disagree. But to teach your kids that they’re the worst? I’m sorry – that’s crazy, in part because kids have no understanding of the nuances of humility. If parents want to teach their kids how awful the kids are (particularly girls), they shouldn’t don’t be surprised when the kids grow up to truly view themselves as awful – and to have problems with drugs; loser guys; eating disorders, etc., in part because their parents told them how awful they were growing up. Teach your kids that they are awful? Parents who do that shouldn’t be shocked to find that they raised doormats (who will probably hate them too). What a way to screw up a kid…

You really don’t have any idea what I’m suggesting, my friend. To consider oneself the worst of sinners is to emphasize God’s grace, not my own power. Of course, I will gladly boast in God’s work in my life – when I have freedom from sin, I will shout it, because it is HIS ACTION.

But it is not my doing. On my own, I am selfish, I am spiteful, I am stupid, I am lustful, I am pathetic. Will I teach my kids that? Sure. I’ll teach them that they need God. I’ll teach them that they want the wrong things, and that that is bad. I’ll teach them that they have the opportunity to genuinely be sons and daughters of the living God, but that they can only take this opportunity by leaving behind what they want – be it riches, or food, or sex, or pride, or whatever. I won’t teach them cheap grace, as if you could simply obey and “do the right things” and be worthy to receive HEAVEN.

I will teach them that there are two kinds of people: (1) sinners, and (2) Jesus.

If you’re not Jesus, you’re a sinner, and you’d better get you butt in line and accept that you are incapable of doing any good on your own. Once you accept that, then it’s pretty much impossible to take any pride in being better than anyone else.

 

[Hans_W]

Wait…listen to what you just wrote: First, “filthy, degrading our bodies, insulting to woman, spiritually dangerous and it can become addictive,” and then “but there are other sins that are more threatening to a happy relationship and marriage.”

That is a head-scratcher. Sure, kidnapping isn’t genocide, but it is still kidnapping. There are worse things for a marriage than porn, but an ingrained porn habit is by far quite bad enough.

This was in reaction to my putting a ranking on sins against the Sixth Command.
(sorry to disrupt the current discussion, but I couldn’t respond earlier).

I put child molestation on top and pornography at the bottom. Let me elaborate. Sexually abusing powerless, innocent and trusting children must be one of the most heinous crimes. It will affect their entire lives and those of their partners and children. These people should be isolated from society (life-imprisonment).

I see adultery as less severe. Here you have two consenting adults. Jesus seems to have been more lenient and forgiving to prostitutes (“go and sin no more”) than to people doing harm to children.

Watching pornography at least doesn’t involve others directly. I know, indirectly it does. There must be different degrees: people watching occasionally, with serious addiction on the other end. I have never cheated on my wife and never watched pornography (except when it flashes across your screen, which seems to become more and more common), but I am a warm-blooded male and know what temptation is. I can only vaguely imagine what is described as child pornography. If somebody is into that, then he (she?) needs serious help, urgently. And again, people involved in producing this material should be jailed for life.

Back to the BF of our OP. I think that Jesus would have said something like: Go home and don’t do it again. And put a filter on that computer to minimise temptation.

 

[Sugabee43]

Watching pornography at least doesn’t involve others directly. I know, indirectly it does. There must be different degrees: people watching occasionally, with serious addiction on the other end. I have never cheated on my wife and never watched pornography (except when it flashes across your screen, which seems to become more and more common), but I am a warm-blooded male and know what temptation is. I can only vaguely imagine what is described as child pornography. If somebody is into that, then he (she?) needs serious help, urgently. And again, people involved in producing this material should be jailed for life.

Back to the BF of our OP. I think that Jesus would have said something like: Go home and don’t do it again. And put a filter on that computer to minimise temptation.

Hans, watching pornography and then acting on it by masturbating is a grave sin in the eyes of the Church because it IS adultery - one is having sex with someone other than their spouse, and while watching other naked people, to boot. It disrupts the unitive, spiritual covenant of the Sacrament of Marriage. It HURTS the spouse deeply because it’s like saying, “You aren’t good enough to satisfy me, and my promise to you and to God to be faithful is worthless”. Not to mention, the patronizing of an industry that is rife with broken men and women who do that for money is in itself a reason to never put an eye on it. Speaking as a wife married to someone with this addiction, I can tell you that if I had known before we were married of his problem, I would not have married him. Or, at least not until I was CERTAIN he was sober. I pray for his healing; we’ve been to many counselors, retreats, etc., but he does not maintain sobriety. We are on the brink of divorce- of HIS choosing, not mine. And I’m sad. But the OP needs to step away unless and until her BF sobers up.

 

[Hans_W]

Hans, watching pornography and then acting on it by masturbating is a grave sin in the eyes of the Church because it IS adultery - one is having sex with someone other than their spouse, and while watching other naked people, to boot. It disrupts the unitive, spiritual covenant of the Sacrament of Marriage. It HURTS the spouse deeply because it’s like saying, “You aren’t good enough to satisfy me, and my promise to you and to God to be faithful is worthless”. Not to mention, the patronizing of an industry that is rife with broken men and women who do that for money is in itself a reason to never put an eye on it. Speaking as a wife married to someone with this addiction, I can tell you that if I had known before we were married of his problem, I would not have married him. Or, at least not until I was CERTAIN he was sober. I pray for his healing; we’ve been to many counselors, retreats, etc., but he does not maintain sobriety. We are on the brink of divorce- of HIS choosing, not mine. And I’m sad. But the OP needs to step away unless and until her BF sobers up.

Sorry to hear this, Sugabee43. I can imagine that many men cannot get of this habit, but there are also many men you can get off and they manage to put the past behind them. No idea what the ratio cured/relapse is.

The OP’s question was what we would recommend in her specific situation. I agree with you (and the OP will agree as well) that she needs to wait and see. In the meantime she can help and support. His attitude of being open and honest and his Christian foundation can get him out of this, and he could become a great husband and father. My opposition was to the outright objection of any possibility of him getting out of the habit. It makes the person untouchable for the rest of his life.

To the people who asked me how I would react if that was my daughter: (If I had one) I want her to marry a guy who has never looked at a woman with lust, who never had an impure thought, and will never do so for the rest of his life. But then I’d never become a grandfather either.

 

[EasterJoy]

This was in reaction to my putting a ranking on sins against the Sixth Command.
(sorry to disrupt the current discussion, but I couldn’t respond earlier).

I put child molestation on top and pornography at the bottom. Let me elaborate. Sexually abusing powerless, innocent and trusting children must be one of the most heinous crimes. It will affect their entire lives and those of their partners and children. These people should be isolated from society (life-imprisonment).

I see adultery as less severe. Here you have two consenting adults. Jesus seems to have been more lenient and forgiving to prostitutes (“go and sin no more”) than to people doing harm to children.

Watching pornography at least doesn’t involve others directly. I know, indirectly it does. There must be different degrees: people watching occasionally, with serious addiction on the other end. I have never cheated on my wife and never watched pornography (except when it flashes across your screen, which seems to become more and more common), but I am a warm-blooded male and know what temptation is. I can only vaguely imagine what is described as child pornography. If somebody is into that, then he (she?) needs serious help, urgently. And again, people involved in producing this material should be jailed for life.

Back to the BF of our OP. I think that Jesus would have said something like: Go home and don’t do it again. And put a filter on that computer to minimise temptation.

This is all I’m saying to such a ranking: It has nothing to do with the OP and her relationship with the man she marries. This is how that goes:* You are my husband. You promised to be true to me, to love me and to cherish me, to forsake all others, but instead I find out that you’ve been slobbering over other women. Not only that, you’ve been slobbering over filthy, degrading pictures of other women that were taken for no other reason than to excite your lust. It makes me want to throw up. It makes my skin crawl when you touch me. It makes me wonder if that is what I am to you–some object! Only as an object, I can’t compare to that air-brushed fantasy world, and I know it. If I could, I can’t imagine you taking pictures of me like that and sharing them with complete strangers and thinking it is no big deal, nothing that directly has to do with me. Just thinking about it, I feel ashamed, humiliated, and infuriated. This whole thing affects me very directly and very deeply. How could you?*

 

[Sugabee43]

this is all i’m saying to such a ranking: It has nothing to do with the op and her relationship with the man she marries. This is how that goes:* you are my husband. You promised to be true to me, to love me and to cherish me, to forsake all others, but instead i find out that you’ve been slobbering over other women. Not only that, you’ve been slobbering over filthy, degrading pictures of other women that were taken for no other reason than to excite your lust. It makes me want to throw up. It makes my skin crawl when you touch me. It makes me wonder if that is what i am to you–some object! Only as an object, i can’t compare to that air-brushed fantasy world, and i know it. If i could, i can’t imagine you taking pictures of me like that and sharing them with complete strangers and thinking it is no big deal, nothing that directly has to do with me. Just thinking about it, i feel ashamed, humiliated, and infuriated. this whole thing* affects me very directly and very deeply. How could you?

precisely.

 

[benotagoat]

This was in reaction to my putting a ranking on sins against the Sixth Command.
(sorry to disrupt the current discussion, but I couldn’t respond earlier).

I put child molestation on top and pornography at the bottom. Let me elaborate. Sexually abusing powerless, innocent and trusting children must be one of the most heinous crimes. It will affect their entire lives and those of their partners and children. These people should be isolated from society (life-imprisonment).

I see adultery as less severe. Here you have two consenting adults. Jesus seems to have been more lenient and forgiving to prostitutes (“go and sin no more”) than to people doing harm to children.

Watching pornography at least doesn’t involve others directly. I know, indirectly it does. There must be different degrees: people watching occasionally, with serious addiction on the other end. I have never cheated on my wife and never watched pornography (except when it flashes across your screen, which seems to become more and more common), but I am a warm-blooded male and know what temptation is. I can only vaguely imagine what is described as child pornography. If somebody is into that, then he (she?) needs serious help, urgently. And again, people involved in producing this material should be jailed for life.

Back to the BF of our OP. I think that Jesus would have said something like: Go home and don’t do it again. And put a filter on that computer to minimise temptation.

Would He not have said to reach out out to those ‘in the business’ so that they too might inherit "The kingdom of God " one day . Or is it too much to ask Catholics to actually condemn the making of the pornography in the first place as a ‘greater sin’, than seeing it ,often accidently, ?

 

[bmaj]

This is all I’m saying to such a ranking: It has nothing to do with the OP and her relationship with the man she marries. This is how that goes:* You are my husband. You promised to be true to me, to love me and to cherish me, to forsake all others, but instead I find out that you’ve been slobbering over other women. Not only that, you’ve been slobbering over filthy, degrading pictures of other women that were taken for no other reason than to excite your lust. It makes me want to throw up. It makes my skin crawl when you touch me. It makes me wonder if that is what I am to you–some object! Only as an object, I can’t compare to that air-brushed fantasy world, and I know it. If I could, I can’t imagine you taking pictures of me like that and sharing them with complete strangers and thinking it is no big deal, nothing that directly has to do with me. Just thinking about it, I feel ashamed, humiliated, and infuriated. This whole thing* affects me very directly and very deeply. How could you?

So very true, EasterJoy. And so horribly difficult, unfortunately. God’s blessings to you always, and to any wives going through this in their marriages.

 

[EasterJoy]

So very true, EasterJoy. And so horribly difficult, unfortunately. God’s blessings to you always, and to any wives going through this in their marriages.

The only thing I will say in defense of the OP’s boyfriend is that he seems to totally get this. He is not defending his habit or trying to downplay how serious it is. He isn’t trying to hide it, but made an unforced confession. He wants to stop. That is the part that argues in favor of his understanding that this is not and should not be negotiable between spouses.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

…

First of all, watching porn is not the same thing as cheating! It is a serious sin but a distinct one from adultery. …

Not according to Jesus Christ. It is cheating. It is adultery.

Matthew 5:27- 29

27"You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY’; 28but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29"If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.…"