How to deal with cohabiting children

[faithfully]

Well… I met my husband when I was 15. We lived together for the year and a half that we planned our wedding. We moved in together at age 24. I had put myself through college. He still needed to finish his trade school. I WAS the bread winner… he was allowed (by my agreement) to go to school full time and focus on his studies 100% (a risk to me to say the least). As per our agreement, he was to get straight A’s. His family, with no religious standpoint, were completely unsupportive. This was not based on any sort of moral… Just his mothers distaste for me. They would not help him financially, they also did not approve of his chosen trade. YES, he could have gotten a room mate, worked and paid his share. And I guarantee he would NOT have graduated at the top of his class. As proven by all his classmates who did just that. My family is Catholic. And although, this was not an ideal situation, my parents showed me nothing but love and support. They also adore my husband. And to this day we have a spectacular relationship. We are 39. We will celebrate our 14th wedding anniversary this month. We will have been together exclusively for 24 years. We had long discussions with the priest that married us. Our sins have been forgiven, and our marriage held and blessed in a Catholic church. I have only been with one man.

I personally would CLING to the story of the prodigals son. It is your job as a parent to share God. To offer forgiveness. But to love without condition. God loves us without condition. Christ shows us many times compassion for the socially low… for the adulteress, for all the sinners. You don’t have to visit your daughter or her boyfriend. You most certainly have the right to set ground rules in your home. You absolutely risk never having a good relationship with a future son in law… Which can just really bite when/if your daughter seeks forgiveness from a priest, and it’s extended. You will forever remain the judgmental mother-in-law… but then, their relationship may not last. Ouch on all fronts.

We live in an era that no longer marries it’s daughters off at the age 14 or 15. An age that just didn’t even pose this problem. We also live in an era where there exist many woman that don’t want to be married and have children. With divorce rates up as they are, the burden of supporting and caring for a family (as there are so many dead beat dad’s out there) is a huge deterrent from even getting into the situation. The idea that the unmarried sexually active woman is the unpaid prostitute shows little respect for woman. And honestly, I think this is one of the reasons we are where we are today. We somehow think it’s ok for a man to “sow his oats”, we are rarely horrified that a man is not a virgin on his wedding day… I have NEVER heard of an unmarried sexually active man referred to as an unpaid prostitute. Why is that? How come the Catholic parents of men who live with their girlfriends (why are they afraid to commit by the way?) NEVER demand that the girlfriend make an honest man out of him??? When we refuse to apply equality to men and women we beg for women to stand up and demand it. And often, it’s done in ways that are less than desirable. I often wonder if women would cling to their “virtues” if we made it an issue for men. Do we raise our daughters to find a good provider? Or a man that has respected his body and soul? 'Cause some good providers are often lacking in soul preserving activities.

My mother always taught me I could come to her under any circumstances. That I could trust her with my life. EVEN if I blew it. I can distinctly remember asking her when I was about age 13 what she would do if I turned up PG? She said, “I would be disappointed. Then we’d figure out what to do TOGETHER!” And NO abortion was not part of that. equation." She also taught me about my body, about sex, about STD’s, what boys will say to get you to do things “you would if you loved me.” etc. I was one VERY prepared young lady. I laugh today, 'cause even my hormone driven now husband tried the “you would if you loved me” when we were 15. I responded with “you wouldn’t ask if you loved me.” and an “I’m not some ill educated, low self esteem ding bat” eye roll… Ended that conversation for a VERY long time!

Further, I would pray everyday to ask God to guide you in the right things to say. The things that will effect your daughters thought process. Not what you WANT to say, to give her an earful… but what God wants you tell her. Pray that she will be shown the right path to take and that it won’t strain your relationship…

God Bless,

 

[CoffeeHound]

Am I missing the point here???
Its not about what WE THINK on the issue of co habitation, fornication is against God’s law and if we don’t want to offend God then simple Don’t CO HABITATE and if you want to offend God then go ahead and CO HABITATE … but lets call a spade a spade no matter who is using it and lets be clear about one thing God says fornicating CO HABITATING couples are committing a sin… So there you have it… No ifs or buts about it regardless of what they do in sweeden or elsewhere

You’re creating a strawman. You artificially connect cohabitation and fornication then attack cohabitation on the grounds of fornication.

A similar argument would be for me to claim that being a Belgian is offensive to God because Divine Law specifically forbids masturbation, and therefore being a masturbating Belgian is to be a sinner. Since most Belgians probably have masturbated at some point, God hates Belgians. It seems like a silly argument but it follows the same logic path.

Now, again, I’m not defending cohabitation but let’s get away from the knee jerk, finger pointing mentality that someone who does something that was at some time socially wrong is a sinner. That’s the same argument that would have been used 30 years ago to call a woman wearing pants a sinner. Instead, we need to critically evaluate why and if something is wrong, then determine how to charitably address the issue.

To not do that is to pervert some assumption about Divine Law which is not only uncharitable, but can be Scandal in and of itself.

 

[JimG]

You’re creating a strawman. You artificially connect cohabitation and fornication then attack cohabitation on the grounds of fornication.

It’s true that Jeana12 makes a connection between cohabitation and fornication. I could be wrong but usually the whole point of cohabitation is to allow for fornication. Certainly some couples live together chastely, but how common is that? If there has been an outbreak of sexless cohabitation that might change a lot of people’s perceptions of the matter.

It’s also true that for some couples, shacking up can end in a happy marriage. I’m still not convinced that is a good way to begin a marriage. But for all the cases that end happily, there are many others that end badly. The frog never does turn into a prince, and at some point has to be tossed back into the pond.

In terms of sex, men have been the great beneficiaries of the female sexual revolution. You no longer have to marry the girl to get sex; you don’t even have to be very committed to her. And if children enter the picture, they can either be aborted or live with a mom and possibly a dad who may or may not stay together.

 

[CoffeeHound]

It’s true that Jeana12 makes a connection between cohabitation and fornication. I could be wrong but usually the whole point of cohabitation is to allow for fornication. Certainly some couples live together chastely, but how common is that? If there has been an outbreak of sexless cohabitation that might change a lot of people’s perceptions of the matter.

Two people can fornicate just as easily in two separate apartments than one. So no, I wouldn’t say that fornication is the “whole point of cohabitation” or that cohabitation leads to fornication - fornicators are going to fornicate no matter where they live (even if they live with you, unless you escort them everywhere, they’ll find a way if they are so inclined). So you have to decouple fornication (an explicit sin) from cohabitation (which I have never seen called a sin explicitly).

Does cohabitation generally imply fornication to most people? Yes. So therefore cohabitation is a sin because it creates scandal. Should someone avoid cohabitation because it creates scandal? Absolutely. Is it sinful to create scandal? You betcha.

Why is it important to make the distinction? Consider the case of a male and female roommate (not dating). If cohabitation is a sin, they wouldn’t be able to live together. However, if it’s clear to all that they aren’t involved, then it is not creating scandal for them to live together (because fornication wouldn’t be assumed) and thus it is fine for them to live together.

 

[JimG]

Two people can fornicate just as easily in two separate apartments than one. So no, I wouldn’t say that fornication is the “whole point of cohabitation” or that cohabitation leads to fornication - fornicators are going to fornicate no matter where they live (even if they live with you, unless you escort them everywhere, they’ll find a way if they are so inclined). So you have to decouple fornication (an explicit sin) from cohabitation (which I have never seen called a sin explicitly).

Does cohabitation generally imply fornication to most people? Yes. So therefore cohabitation is a sin because it creates scandal. Should someone avoid cohabitation because it creates scandal? Absolutely. Is it sinful to create scandal? You betcha.

Why is it important to make the distinction? Consider the case of a male and female roommate (not dating). If cohabitation is a sin, they wouldn’t be able to live together. However, if it’s clear to all that they aren’t involved, then it is not creating scandal for them to live together (because fornication wouldn’t be assumed) and thus it is fine for them to live together.

I understand why you are making the distinction. And certainly people can fornicate without cohabitation. But quite often, cohabitation formalizes it and makes it an explicit substitute for marrying.

Maybe we should distinguish between cohabitation and shacking up. Then parents could ask, “are you shacking up or just living together?”

On further thought, there seems to be a widespread assumption that fornication is really OK, and living together just makes it so much more convenient.

 

[remjsmom76]

Without throwing a tantrum in front of her and her boyfriend, tell her you do not approve of how she is living her life. However IT IS HER LIFE TO LIVE…you did your best to raise her right…she needs to make her own choices and live her own mistakes. Be like christ. In this case what would christ do. A lot of people scoffed at christ for allowing a prostitute (not saying your daughter is one, just saying a story here) to wash and wipe his feet with oils and her tears (Im thinking that story is right here) Jesus scolded them. He just loved them. These are your children. WE are GODs children and yet we sin so many times in one day and STILL GOD does not leave us, he is with us, hoping and praying for us to do good. Let her know you know and you do not approve. Dont eat at her home if you dont feel comfortable, instead go out to eat in a neutral setting. And pray…that she sees what she is doing is not right. Thats all I can say.

I have recently discovered that our daughter is living with her boyfriend (she lives in another city) --I have suspected it for some time. To make it even worse, she is lying about it & covering it up. When she moved out of town a year or so ago, she informed us, because she wanted to be “honest”, that they were going to live together. After our distraught response to this, she & her boyfriend agreed not to do it, so as not to risk damaging their relationship with us. Now we have double the damage with immorality AND lying.
I guess my problem is I don’t know how to even relate to her now. Do I confront her? Distance myself from her? I am very uncomfortable even being around her knowing what she is doing. I have been driving 1 1/2 hours to see her & have her cut my hair, as that is her profession-- I don’t even want to do that anymore.
I am so sad & disturbed by this-- One of our older daughters, also out of town, may be engaging in the same immorality, & there are younger siblings at home that will be influenced by this. I feel overwhelmed by the bad choices my daughters are making.

Has anyone been in this situation & how have you handled it? I love my daughter but cannot condone or respect her choices.

 

[sherimarie]

writing a letter is a great idea, make sure you do it at adoration.

My brother had my parents believing he was living with his girlfriend to help with her kids, they bought it hook, line and sinker untill just a few days ago when they announced that she is 10 weeks pregnant.

The worse part about it is my little brothers and sisters are watching closely.

Has anyone heard the saying “Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?”

I agree with Jim, I think we need to go a little postal with these kids so they know how seriously we take this whole “mortal sin” thing.

Of course ending all communication with them would be dangerous.

 

[MichaelR]

“Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?”

I find that a really distasteful saying. Not only does it cheapen women to use the phrase, it’s also inferring that men are only after one thing anyway. Marriage should be about love, not just to get a woman to bed.

 

[sherimarie]

It’s true, sex outside of marriage cheapens women, thank you for pointing that out.

 

[faithfully]

It’s true, sex outside of marriage cheapens women, thank you for pointing that out.

How does it NOT cheapen men? How come only women are negatively impacted?

 

[sherimarie]

Of course sex outside of marriage is not good for men too, this is simply a cute little saying meant to awaken ALL the reasons NOT to live together before marriage. My belief is that if a man is unscrupulous enough to live with a girl before she is his wife then he deserves the censure of the community in general. And yes even if they are doing it for financial gain, it is neve a good thing to give scandel for the sake of money.

 

[MichaelR]

It’s true, sex outside of marriage cheapens women, thank you for pointing that out.

No…I did NOT say that sex outside of marriage cheapens women. I said the inference in that phrase does.

 

[sherimarie]

Morals aside, why would any woman agree to live with a man outside of marriage? Your totally ruining your brand.

 

[Kindness]

To the OP, as you brought your daughter up in a loving and faithfully Catholic household I’m sure she is completely aware of what you think about her behavior and what the church teaches. After you have sent a letter (if you feel the need) to spell out once and for all exactly what you think and believe I think for your own health and sanity it would to better to cease and desist from browbeating your daughter. Not because I don’t agree with your point of view, I completely agree. In my experience I have never known anyone to change their mind on an issue such as this by nagging, guilt trips, parental raging or similar.

I have known people to have a change of heart and do a 180 on immoral behavior but in their own time and often, unfortunately, after some real-life experience and personal suffering (not unlike The Prodigal Son hanging out in the pig pen). Total freedom is an essential element in our relationship with God. We have to respect God and give each other the same freedom as painful as that may be.

As previous posters had said so well your dilemma is very much the essence of the story of the Prodigal Son. Continue in your faith life, loving your friends and family and giving yourself the love and attention you need to attain peace with God. Keep your daughter constantly before you in prayer. God’s ways are not our ways and his timing is not ours either. Please have faith that your daughter is still in God’s loving care. You are a very loving mother and my heart goes out to you.

I think it would be healthy for your daughter to see that life for you goes on calmly and healthily and this situation does not become the center of your world and an obsession. That would be giving way to much power to the forces that are not of God. Don’t let anything disturb your peace. God bless you.

 

[CoffeeHound]

Morals aside, why would any woman agree to live with a man outside of marriage? Your totally ruining your brand.

I would expect that most would do it in anticipation of marriage. Particularly if you’re a woman with a parent that’s married/divorced multiple times, you might be a little more caution about getting into a life-long commitment.

 

[MichaelR]

And since we’re putting morals aside…maybe it might just be for love…as old fashioned as that might seem.

And I don’t have a brand…LOL

 

[JimG]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sherimarie
“Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?”

I find that a really distasteful saying. Not only does it cheapen women to use the phrase, it’s also inferring that men are only after one thing anyway. Marriage should be about love, not just to get a woman to bed.

It’s not the phrase that’s distasteful, but the action. Women cheapen themselves by giving away what is reserved for marriage.

Men cheapen themselves by grabbing the benefits without the sacrifice. Marriage requires sacrificial love, not an invite to shack up.

So it cheapens both, but it is women and children who live with the most grievous of the consequences.

 

[JimG]

I would expect that most would do it in anticipation of marriage. Particularly if you’re a woman with a parent that’s married/divorced multiple times, you might be a little more caution about getting into a life-long commitment.

If a parent has had multiple marriages and divorces, the first thing to do is to take an in depth look at why one keeps making bad choices. Then choose more wisely. But a wise choice does not begin with a shack up.

Further, if a parent has minor children, he or she ought not to be dating. There are children to be raised. They do not need more drama in their lives in addition to what has already been imposed on them by the parents’ bad choices. They’ve already become visitors to at least one parent’s home; they may be fatherless or motherless by parental choice, now they’ve got to compete for attention with the new guy or gal? Is it any wonder kids lose respect for marriage?

 

[snowbee]

A similar argument would be for me to claim that being a Belgian is offensive to God because Divine Law specifically forbids masturbation, and therefore being a masturbating Belgian is to be a sinner. Since most Belgians probably have masturbated at some point, God hates Belgians. It seems like a silly argument but it follows the same logic path.

If masturbations is a mortal sin, and deserves hellfire. And ALL Belgians masturbate. Then it would work to say that ALL Belgians are offensive to God.
I wouldn’t say the logic flows exactly as you’d like it to.

 

[MichaelR]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sherimarie
“Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?”

It’s not the phrase that’s distasteful, but the action. Women cheapen themselves by giving away what is reserved for marriage.

Men cheapen themselves by grabbing the benefits without the sacrifice. Marriage requires sacrificial love, not an invite to shack up.

So it cheapens both, but it is women and children who live with the most grievous of the consequences.

No, its definitely the phrase I find distasteful, not the action.

First, in the scenario, the man is still a person while the woman is likened to an animal. This harks back to times when wives could pretty much be bartered for as property, and so not treated as people in their own right, with their own minds and bodies and choices.

Second, this in itself infers that men are still have the control when it comes to women.

Third, it also infers the only worth that a woman has is in sex. It’s saying why stay with a woman once you’ve had sex with her. Well…because you love her? Because she is intelligent and witty and generous and kind? Because she’s worth a hundred more things than sex? Surely that should be the message, not ‘well why would you want to bother to stay with her if you’ve already had your fun?’.

Fourth, I actually don’t agree with the premise of the phrase anyway. Let’s twist it around a bit, shall we? ‘Why buy the cow if you don’t know whether you’ll like its milk yet?’ that makes just as much sense. I wouldn’t use that phrase either, but it serves the point.