How to deal with "Every religion thinks it's the right one"

  • Thread starter Thread starter NextElement
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Dear Tony, God bless your pure soul.
I wish it were pure… 😊
I feel so blessed to have met you on these forums, your posts are a source of incredible learning for me and attract my heart closer to Catholicism.
Thank you for those very kind words. Five years on this forum have enlightened me immensely. I don’t know how I managed to survive without all the feedback I’ve received here…
I will say the Bahai healing prayer especially for you this week dear friend 🙂
I’m sure it will help me to recover. God bless you.
 
Have you read any of C.S. Lewis’ works on how God uses patterns in nature, archetypes and myths to reveal in subtle ways his plan for redemption? The Winter season turning to spring, or butterflies emerging from their coffin-like chrysalises are both revelatory of life after death.

In other words, the “common” psyche of humanity is deeper and far more extensive and encompassing than we are led to believe by modern science. The 20 000 may have been led by God away from the beliefs of their Islamic culture TOWARDS a deeper truth but that does not mean they held the complete truth, only that relative to what they formerly believed the newly revealed truth was positively crystaline.
Thankyou again Peter.

May I ask why you don’t believe that the Apostles and early Christians where also not “led by God away from the beliefs of their JEWISH culture TOWARDS a deeper truth but that does not mean they held the complete truth, only that relative to what they formerly believed the newly revealed truth was positively crystaline.”??

Why is it not possible that the totality of Truth therefore resides in the Baha’i Faith, which builds on and fulfills the Truths enshrined in Christianity?

Have you in any way investigated this possibility?

🙂

.
 
  1. The whole law is summed up in the Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount. And in the greast Commandment of all, " Love the Lord your God with you whole heart, mind, and soul, and your neighbor as yourself. "
It does no good to write a Papal Bull which is directed to society as a whole. The faithful knew their obligations.

Don’t know what you mean.

You need to read the article in the Catholic Encyclopedia again:

newadvent.org/cathen/14036a.htm

There was nothing in it to demonstrate that Baha’ u’ ullha’ was anything but an intelligent man of good repute, similar to perhaps Ghandi. A man and no more.

Glad to hear it.

A difficult task that few can pull off.

God bless you

Linus2nd

🙂

.
Hi Linus, can you tell me which part of the encyclopaedia article you wish me to read again?

Also, could you show me any “man” (as you call Baha’u’llah), that has started an all-embracing religion, with adherents worshipping His every Word, and His every act, from every country, territory, island, tribe on the planet? Did Ghandi do this?

Did Ghandi even come remotely close to this:
youtube.com/watch?v=lGV3zrSZrfo

God bless you too 🙂

.
 
Thankyou again Peter.

May I ask why you don’t believe that the Apostles and early Christians where also not “led by God away from the beliefs of their JEWISH culture TOWARDS a deeper truth but that does not mean they held the complete truth, only that relative to what they formerly believed the newly revealed truth was positively crystaline.”??

Why is it not possible that the totality of Truth therefore resides in the Baha’i Faith, which builds on and fulfills the Truths enshrined in Christianity?

Have you in any way investigated this possibility?

🙂

.
Jesus said he is the Way, the Truth and the Life. The Apostles beheld the complete Truth in front of their eyes. The only reason they only grasped the Truth “relative to what they formerly believed” was because of their limitations, not because the complete Truth wasn’t present to them.

Jesus showed the Way to the Truth. By being totally faithful to the Way he taught and passed on to us through the Apostles, we are led by the Holy Spirit to God, who is the fullness of Being, Truth itself. There is no need for another way or mediator.

Either Christ is who he claimed to be or Christianity is false. If true, the complete Truth, Christ himself, the Logos of God, was “enshrined” in Christianity. If false, then Baha’i has no solid foundation on which to build or fulfill and would be false to the extent that it claims to supersede Christianity.

Either Baha’i is superfluous (to the point it mimics and reinforces the truths of Christianity) or it is false because it makes a claim that Christ and Christianity are less than they really are.
 
Jesus said he is the Way, the Truth and the Life. The Apostles beheld the complete Truth in front of their eyes. The only reason they only grasped the Truth “relative to what they formerly believed” was because of their limitations, not because the complete Truth wasn’t present to them.

Jesus showed the Way to the Truth. By being totally faithful to the Way he taught and passed on to us through the Apostles, we are led by the Holy Spirit to God, who is the fullness of Being, Truth itself. There is no need for another way or mediator.

Either Christ is who he claimed to be or Christianity is false. If true, the complete Truth, Christ himself, the Logos of God, was “enshrined” in Christianity. If false, then Baha’i has no solid foundation on which to build or fulfill and would be false to the extent that it claims to supersede Christianity.

Either Baha’i is superfluous (to the point it mimics and reinforces the truths of Christianity) or it is false because it makes a claim that Christ and Christianity are less than they really are.
Bahai theology does not rely on Jesus being God. Bahai theology relies on the Truth enshrined in the Bible, the meanings of which is sealed, according to Daniel until the end of Days. Baha’u’llah unsealed the Truth of the Bible.

Why do you think there are so many thousands of Christian denominations? You think they are all correct? According to the human interpretations, Jesus ranges from mere man to Prophet, to alien, to God and all claim legitimacy.

Even the Catholic Church relies on the “interpretation” of one Biblical verse to claim rightful successorship to Jesus. Any interpretations could be false.

The primacy of Peter was interpreted by PEOPLE. Nobody to claim authority on that interpretation. It is only when Baha’u’llah came and unsealed the meanings of the Biblical verses that we were confirmed that the primacy of Perer was true.

It also happens that Baha’u’llah testifies that Jesus is not actually God, although if He were to ever testify that He was God, it would still be true.

Have you read the Writings of Bahaullah on this subject at all?

.
 
The Catholic Church believes “Religions” are the way to God. The words of Cardinal Reinhard Marx:

“Particularly, RELIGIONS make an important contribution in GUIDING HUMANITY towards a future. They (religions) help it (humanity) TURN to God, Creator and Father of humankind. They (religions) position ALL people in a WIDER, COMMON HORIZON. We ACCEPT this MISSION, and we commit ourselves to taking the pathway of comprehension and reconciliation.” (Marx’s words at the “Bound to Live Together” meeting in Munich, Germany -2011)

What did Jesus have to say about the “WIDE” way -vs- the NARROW way?

“Enter by the NARROW gate; for WIDE is the gate and BROAD is the WAY that leads to destruction, and there are MANY who go in by it. Because NARROW is the gate and difficult is the way which LEADS to LIFE, and there are FEW who find it." (Matthew 7:13-14)

And what does Rome say?

“They (religions) position ALL people in a WIDER, COMMON HORIZON. We ACCEPT this MISSION”
 
inocente said:
How dare you sirrah, I didn’t insult him, I said he’s a terrific comedian. 😃

Satire is an accepted way to puncture authority. But I think authority figures are not appropriate in science anyway. Theories should stand or fall on the evidence. That’s the whole basis of science. So when someone calls himself a scientist and puts forward a theory, but the evidence all got mysteriously blown up and disappeared, he’s not doing science.

I’d never heard of him so googled and saw his checkered history. His argument relies on a theory I’ve never heard of either, so I googled and found it had been disproved a long long time ago.

His main interest, at least in that paper, seemed to be don’t worry too much about checking it out, make it sound good. Which is fine in politics and advocacy, but truth isn’t about hit parades. Imho.

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.” - Fenyman
My, my, comptemptuous as well. Well, every dog to his bone. I can’t judge his " theory " since those things are admittely beyond my kin. But he had a PhD on Astrophysics and was employed in the field for some time. And since I don’t understand the physics and math of the various modes of Relativity and Quantum Mechanics I acknowledge that they work, but reject the various interpretations offered as to their reliability as an explanation of the nature of things like space, time, light, and gravity. And since I don’t follow anyone’s parade, it makes no difference to me what the religion, ethnicity, etc. of the one making the interpretations.

Contrary to your rash judgment (to which you are often prone ) I did not cite him as an authority figure but as a qualified kindred spirit :D.

Cheers

Linus2nd
 
Bahai theology does not rely on Jesus being God. Bahai theology relies on the Truth enshrined in the Bible, the meanings of which is sealed, according to Daniel until the end of Days. Baha’u’llah unsealed the Truth of the Bible.

Why do you think there are so many thousands of Christian denominations? You think they are all correct? According to the human interpretations, Jesus ranges from mere man to Prophet, to alien, to God and all claim legitimacy.

Even the Catholic Church relies on the “interpretation” of one Biblical verse to claim rightful successorship to Jesus. Any interpretations could be false.

The primacy of Peter was interpreted by PEOPLE. Nobody to claim authority on that interpretation. It is only when Baha’u’llah came and unsealed the meanings of the Biblical verses that we were confirmed that the primacy of Perer was true.

It also happens that Baha’u’llah testifies that Jesus is not actually God, although if He were to ever testify that He was God, it would still be true.

Have you read the Writings of Bahaullah on this subject at all?

.
I am back-stepping a bit - can you please reference your earlier quote of the Bab:
“Before I chose the womb of my mother, I discoursed with Muhammad about the future of Islam”
I’ve tried to find it through Google, Bing, Yahoo and ixquick it but all I get are things you’ve posted.
I stand by my comment that this statement is nonsense. If you provide the source; the context may help me to understand what it means.

The Baha’i religion believes in one God, the oneness of humanity and the fundamental oneness of religion, which is what I believe although I clearly identify myself as Roman Catholic with all that it implies.
By attacking the Church and its teachings, I am asserting that you are going against the principles of your own faith.
Baha’u’llah wrote:
“Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.‘
‘We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified… We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.“
You have the teachings of Baha’u’llah on which to base your faith and view of the world. He was clearly a great man. I seem to have issue with your interpretations.
 
I am back-stepping a bit - can you please reference your earlier quote of the Bab:
“Before I chose the womb of my mother, I discoursed with Muhammad about the future of Islam”
I’ve tried to find it through Google, Bing, Yahoo and ixquick it but all I get are things you’ve posted.
I stand by my comment that this statement is nonsense. If you provide the source; the context may help me to understand what it means.

The Baha’i religion believes in one God, the oneness of humanity and the fundamental oneness of religion, which is what I believe although I clearly identify myself as Roman Catholic with all that it implies.
By attacking the Church and its teachings, I am asserting that you are going against the principles of your own faith.

You have the teachings of Baha’u’llah on which to base your faith and view of the world. He was clearly a great man. I seem to have issue with your interpretations.
Dear friend, I apologize profusely if you feel I am attacking Catholicism. Could you point me to where you feel this to be the case so I can learn and advance my approach in dialogue with my fellow lovers of God?

Again, I apologize for coming across as attacking anything.

😦

.
 
I am back-stepping a bit - can you please reference your earlier quote of the Bab:
“Before I chose the womb of my mother, I discoursed with Muhammad about the future of Islam”
I’ve tried to find it through Google, Bing, Yahoo and ixquick it but all I get are things you’ve posted.
I stand by my comment that this statement is nonsense. If you provide the source; the context may help me to understand what it means.
In regards to this dear friend, the book in which this is found has not yet been translated into English. One of the members of the Universal House of Justice (the head institution of the Baha’i Faith) approached me regarding this passage which he read in its original language.

Baha’u’llah has written very similar things however, which are in English. As follows:
O Pen of the Most High! Move Thou upon the Tablet at the bidding of Thy Lord, the Creator of the Heavens, and tell of the time when He Who is the Dayspring of Divine Unity purposed to direct His steps towards the School of Transcendent Oneness; haply the pure in heart may gain thereby a glimpse, be it as small as a needle’s eye, of the mysteries of Thy Lord, the Almighty, the Omniscient, that lie concealed behind the veils. Say: We, indeed, set foot within the School of inner meaning and explanation when all created things were unaware. We saw the words sent down by Him Who is the All-Merciful, and We accepted the verses of God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting, which He presented unto Us, and hearkened unto that which He had solemnly affirmed in the Tablet. This we assuredly did behold. And We assented to His wish through Our behest, for truly We are potent to command.

O people of the Bayán! We, verily, set foot within the School of God when ye lay slumbering; and We perused the Tablet while ye were fast asleep. By the one true God! We read the Tablet ere it was revealed, while ye were unaware, and We had perfect knowledge of the Book when ye were yet unborn. These words are to your measure, not to God’s. To this testifieth that which is enshrined within His knowledge, if ye be of them that comprehend; and to this the tongue of the Almighty doth bear witness, if ye be of those who understand. I swear by God, were We to lift the veil, ye would be dumbfounded.

Take heed that ye dispute not idly concerning the Almighty and His Cause, for lo! He hath appeared amongst you invested with a Revelation so great as to encompass all things, whether of the past or of the future. Were We to address Our theme by speaking in the language of the inmates of the Kingdom, We would say: “In truth, God created that School ere He created heaven and earth, and We entered it before the letters B and E were joined and knit together.” Such is the language of Our servants in Our Kingdom; consider what the tongue of the dwellers of Our exalted Dominion would utter, for We have taught them Our knowledge and have revealed to them whatever had lain hidden in God’s wisdom. Imagine then what the Tongue of Might and Grandeur would utter in His All-Glorious Abode!
Hope this helps 🙂

.
 
No my friend, Muhammad is very much alive, in heaven, where those who “descend from heaven, go up to heaven”…that placeless Place, where Jesus also resides.

.
Muhammad can only be in Heaven by the power of God, Islam & Jesus are incompatible, both can’t co-habit Heaven, (as saviours ) Islam is not from God. There is only one saviour, not two, Mohammed is an imposter, he never cured anyone, he never cured the blind, the lepers, the lame, the dumb nor the dead, Jesus raised the dead, Mohammed is dead +++
 
Can you show me an area where the “Gospel” of Muhammad is different to the Gospel of Jesus please?

🙂

.
Saint Paul says, Galatians 1:8 [8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. [9] As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema +++ The Angel Gabriel appeared to Mary, then the great imposter Mohammed said that the Angel Gabriel appeared to him ? Islam was spawned from the lowest bowels of hell, Christianity was founded in Heaven. There you are, it’s different…
 
I was raised catholic and years ago I questioned if Jesus was merely a man with a big following like Muhammad. I can see the logic that because everyone thinks their religion is right invalidates religion. I simply decided to look at all religions and see which one, if any has the strongest proof of the power I would attribute to God. There is no question that the amount of supernatural activity in the Catholic religion is far numerous than other religions. The apparitions and miracles are incredible. The scientific studies are also numerous and convincing. I would never say Catholicism is the right one, but say I chose the religion with the most recent and extensively investigated miracles. However I would also say that most people look for evidence to support their belief and thus bias their findings. That includes atheists and agnostics. It is interesting when people switch from one belief to another but that is for another thread…

For a take on a response to every religion thinking it is the right one, read “The Boy Who Met Jesus: Segatashya Emmanuel of Kibeho”. He asked Jesus this question. 🙂

Many great posts in this thread. I enjoyed reading them.
 
The primacy of Peter was interpreted by PEOPLE. Nobody to claim authority on that interpretation. It is only when Baha’u’llah came and unsealed the meanings of the Biblical verses that we were confirmed that the primacy of Perer was true.

.
This is interesting because the claim you are making is that Christ’s words “You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church,” are not true because Christ said them nor because the Church actually came about just as Christ said it would, but because Baha’u’llah ‘unsealed’ the meaning, as if the meaning of Christ’s words is not self-evident nor confirmed by coming true.
 
Here is a website that delivers many stories on the theme “Why I Am a Catholic.”

whyimcatholic.com/

These are people who give a great many good reasons why they think Catholicism is the right religion.

I have no idea how to deal with them. 😃
 
This comes up SO often for me when discussing religion with non-believers. They always eventually go to the “Well every religion thinks it’s right and all the others are wrong!”… For me it’s hard to keep the conversation going after that. It’s like, yeah they do, but why does that stop you from finding your own truth?

Any advice for how to deal with it when this is brought up? How can I kind of elevate Christianity/Catholicism above all of the “other” religions that would swear they are the truth?
Allow me to reply to your question as a non-Catholic.

I have grown up in a multi-religious environment with a Hebrew mother, a Muslim father, and a Catholic grandfather. Then there were some atheists also, so I have seen my fair share of some of the more common believes in our western society.

Mind you, I consider atheism to be a religion as well, since it shows a lot of the the same elements that you find in other religions.

There are as many views in the world as there are people. Look at these forums. Even among Catholics there is sometimes fierce debate on certain subjects. I guess that is human nature. Of course we all justify our opinions for ourselves and are willing to defend them, one way or another.

From my perspective, as someone who is not part of an ‘official’ religion, religions have the same tendency. Which, I would think, is to be expected and logical.
For some, especially atheists, this is one of the main characteristics they dislike about religions. To be honest, I can see where they are coming from, especially when a religion claims that only their members will go do heaven if they follow their ‘rules’ and the rest will go to hell.
I know, I’m putting it far too simplistic, but that is often how it comes off to others who are not part of that particular religion. That is not a very appealing stance for outsiders. It actually sounds more like a threat. That is, if it is actually put in this fashion. This then builds resentment and makes people focus on this particular characteristic of a lot of religions.

As for an advice for when you are dealing with anyone saying that, I think it should be very easy to counter a remark like that.

“Jesus loves everyone, and teaches that we should love everyone like he does.”

One can disagree on details in a religion, but I think that the majority of Christian religions would agree with this. Initially you can leave God and the Holy Trinity out of the discussion. Leave that for later once they seem to open up a bit more for these concepts.

Keep in mind, a lot of atheists have a profound fear for religion. So take it slow and give them the time they need to let things sink in. Take into account that some just will not be interested. The best you can do is respect it and maybe get back to it when the situation seems right. Most of all though, don’t insist too much. People who make the argument you mention will shy away if you insist too much.

I also don’t think it makes much sense to have the ambition to try to ‘translate’ the New Testament as so many try to do by analyzing it. There is just no end to the discussions on the various quotes, and there will never be a 100% agreement on what everything means. If you look at the history of the Catholic church you will see that the various drastic changes that have been made in the Dogma also portray a change in perspective and interpretation of the Bible, even within the Catholic Church.
What rings true for one, might not for another. Also that is perfectly normal. It would be strange if everyone were to agree on everything. It just isn’t the nature of man to do so. So I see it as rather pointless to try to achieve this in whatever way.
I do think though, that the majority of people will prefer Love over hate/fear, so that makes a much stronger argument than any of the others.

Another thing I’d like to add to this when it comes to atheists in particular:
Often they will try to knock Christians in general off their feet with contradictions that can be found in the Bible.
I personally find that weak. It is rather unfair to try to judge a holy scripture based upon its consistency when it itself consists of a merge of different religious books in one. Especially when one is trying to revolutionize the other (the New Testament).
A fun argument is always to talk about how science also contradicts itself in the things it teaches. 😃

In the end: be tolerant and loving! Even if they do not believe what you do. God has a Big Plan, and that also includes people who do not believe. I’m convinced of that. From my own experience and conviction I know that the Love of Christ is real and does work. I think that is the core of it all. 😉

God bless, and good luck!

ps.
Padre Pio once was visited by a young couple, and the girl confessed her sins with him. She excused her husband with him, saying that he was not much into religion.
Her husband then said to Padre Pio:“I’m sorry father, but I just do not believe in God.”
Whereas Padre Pio replied:“Don’t worry son, He believes in you.” 😃
 
Kivech #517
If you look at the history of the Catholic church you will see that the various drastic changes that have been made in the Dogma also portray a change in perspective and interpretation of the Bible, even within the Catholic Church.
False.

What “drastic changes” in “Dogma” are conjectured by you?
 
This is interesting because the claim you are making is that Christ’s words “You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church,” are not true because Christ said them nor because the Church actually came about just as Christ said it would, but because Baha’u’llah ‘unsealed’ the meaning, as if the meaning of Christ’s words is not self-evident nor confirmed by coming true.
Hi Peter, hope all is well 🙂

I think a perusal of the reality is a response to your post. If the statement about Peter being the Rock was self-evidently obvious, we would today have a united global Christian community, but we don’t.

In fact today, the Baptists and other Protestants who have become Bahai are amongst those that acknowledge the Primacy of Peter, when throughout their lives as Protestants, they did not.

🙂

.
 
Padre Pio once was visited by a young couple, and the girl confessed her sins with him. She excused her husband with him, saying that he was not much into religion.
Her husband then said to Padre Pio:“I’m sorry father, but I just do not believe in God.”
Whereas Padre Pio replied:“Don’t worry son, He believes in you.” 😃

I love that one. I read the book Padre Pio: The True Story and he further contributes to this topic. Somebody he knew wanted to switch from some other Christian religion to Catholicism and he questioned him and felt he was doing fine in his religion. He never tried to convert anybody.

I think your points about Atheists are interesting and the response to the point of inconsistencies is well taken.

I bet we agree this topic could apply to many in a religion who feel their interpretation is the right one. So many responses on this message board don’t show a tolerance for differences. You look for common ground and understanding. Thanks for your contribution, Kivech.
 
Kivech, you said
As for an advice for when you are dealing with anyone saying that, I think it should be very easy to counter a remark like that.
“Jesus loves everyone, and teaches that we should love everyone like he does.”
While that is true, nonetheless a seed should be planted that not all religions teach the same thing. It doesn’t necessarily need to be even the Catholic faith we talk about to demonstrate this. And this can be done rather easily by just pointing out two religions who say the opposite things. Pro-life and Abortion is one. A person has to hold one or the other even if they are indifferent. Capitol punishment or not. Evolution or Creation. The pill or not. Predestination vs salvation. The real presence in Communion or not. Jesus or not. Good works vs no works. And on an on.

And in addition, why do they find it difficult to find a church that exactly fits all their specs if they select a religion the democratic way? And if all religions are the same, why do we find so many churches continually have splits? Obviously the congregation disagrees over doctrine which right there says that one belief is not the same as another.

I see in your general principle that you win more by offering honey than vinegar, but then we still need to plant the seed of doubt where we can. It is for their own good to help them arrive at the truth. We show our love for them by doing this. And just by asking them a little simple question. Like “do you belive in Jesus?” because some religions don’t.

If I were on the other side of the fence, I would want someone to do this. And it really is rather easy.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top