How to deal with "Every religion thinks it's the right one"

[Peter_Plato]

Hi Peter, hope all is well

If the statement about Peter being the Rock was self-evidently obvious, we would today have a united global Christian community, but we don’t.

Non sequitur.

Just as this is a non sequitur…

If it were self-evidently true that Jesus is God and Jesus came to save the world, then today we should have a saved world, but we don’t.

 

[Servant19]

Non sequitur.

Just as this is a non sequitur…

If it were self-evidently true that Jesus is God and Jesus came to save the world, then today we should have a saved world, but we don’t.

Yes Jesus is not God…

So where do we go from here?

I’m only looking at reality…

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[Peter_Plato]

Yes Jesus is not God…

So where do we go from here?

I’m only looking at reality…

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Except that he claimed to be and we have no strong reason to doubt that claim given that he fulfilled the Old Testament passages about his mission, that all of his prophetic words have come true, that he rose from the dead and that the Apostles and Early Church are credible witnesses to his life, teachings, deeds, death and resurrection.

When I weigh all those against your claim that “Jesus is not God,” well, it simply is a no brainer.

Either believe him or you. Hmmm.

Sorry, I’ve got to go with what I know to be true not what you think isn’t.

 

[Peter_Plato]

Yes Jesus is not God…

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. And this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming; and now it is already in the world.
(1 John 4:1-4)

 

[Servant19]

Except that he claimed to be and we have no strong reason to doubt that claim given that he fulfilled the Old Testament passages about his mission, that all of his prophetic words have come true, that he rose from the dead and that the Apostles and Early Church are credible witnesses to his life, teachings, deeds, death and resurrection.

When I weigh all those against your claim that “Jesus is not God,” well, it simply is a no brainer.

Either believe him or you. Hmmm.

Sorry, I’ve got to go with what I know to be true not what you think isn’t.

He also stated that He wasn’t God too…

You don’t need to believe me dear friend.

Baha’u’llah claimed (and explained it convincingly) that there is a distinction from the Essence of God and the Eternal Logos/Primal Will/Word. It’s up to you to make a thorough investigation into whether He is a believable character or not.

I’ve done that study and investigation about Him and made my decision.

I pray for your journey dear Peter

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[Servant19]

Quote:
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. And this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming; and now it is already in the world.
(1 John 4:1-4)

I confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, so help me God, I know He did!



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[Peter_Plato]

He also stated that He wasn’t God too…

Where?

 

[Peter_Plato]

He also stated that He wasn’t God too…

If you mean Mark 10:18

Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.

It is clear that what Jesus is doing is backing the rich man into a logical corner, thus admitting where his own logic must take him - this completely good being standing before him must be God because “no one is good but God alone.” This is precisely the logic Jesus is insisting the rich man ought to follow to its logical end leading to: “Sell what you have and come follow me.” “Me” being the good beyond all riches, God himself.

Jesus is tactfully but compellingly steering the rich young man into admitting the implications of his own reasoning: Jesus should be followed to the abrogation of all else because he is God.

 

[Servant19]

Where?

Given the general understanding that God is the Supreme Being, and nothing greater exists in whatever form, and that He is Self-Subsisting and not reliant on any other being, then…

There are several passages:

“The Father is greater than I”

““Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing.” (John 5)

“…the head of every man is the Christ…The head of Christ is God” (1Cor 11)

There are several.

Also, where does Jesus say “I am God”?

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[Peter_Plato]

Given the general understanding that God is the Supreme Being, and nothing greater exists in whatever form, and that He is Self-Subsisting and not reliant on any other being, then…

There are several passages:

“The Father is greater than I”

““Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing.” (John 5)

“…the head of every man is the Christ…The head of Christ is God” (1Cor 11)

There are several.

Also, where does Jesus say “I am God”?

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Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. (John 8:48)

When Jesus says, “Truly, I say to you…” He means what he is about to say has special significance. He says “truly,” not once but twice: “Truly, truly, I say to you…”

“I Am” is God’s name as revealed to Moses. For Jesus to use it of himself would have been blasphemy of the highest order, unless he was God. His listeners knew what he meant, which is why they picked up stones.

If he simply pre-existed Abraham, he would have said, “Before Abraham ever was, I was.” He doesn’t, he claims to exist eternally and using God’s sacred name is significant as well.

He claims to forgive sins - only God can forgive sins. We can forgive trespasses against us, but only God can forgive and heal sin.

Your examples can all be reconciled with Jesus being God within a Trinitarian view. According to the Creeds, the Son “proceeds from the Father” or is “eternally begotten” of the Father, consistent with the Father existing as a kind of ontological ground of Being from which eternally proceeds the Son, Jesus Christ.

This relationship between the Father and the Son has been treated endlessly in the Church Fathers and theologians since, not least of all by Augustine. They have found no problem with Jesus being God and yet proceeding eternally from God as a kind of essential aspect of God’s perfect self-knowledge.

 

[Servant19]

When Jesus says, “Truly, I say to you…” He means what he is about to say has special significance. He says “truly,” not once but twice: “Truly, truly, I say to you…”

“I Am” is God’s name as revealed to Moses. For Jesus to use it of himself would have been blasphemy of the highest order, unless he was God. His listeners knew what he meant, which is why they picked up stones.

If he simply pre-existed Abraham, he would have said, “Before Abraham ever was, I was.” He doesn’t, he claims to exist eternally and using God’s sacred name is significant as well.

He claims to forgive sins - only God can forgive sins. We can forgive trespasses against us, but only God can forgive and heal sin.

Your examples can all be reconciled with Jesus being God within a Trinitarian view. According to the Creeds, the Son “proceeds from the Father” or is “eternally begotten” of the Father, consistent with the Father existing as a kind of ontological ground of Being from which eternally proceeds the Son, Jesus Christ.

This relationship between the Father and the Son has been treated endlessly in the Church Fathers and theologians since, not least of all by Augustine. They have found no problem with Jesus being God and yet proceeding eternally from God as a kind of essential aspect of God’s perfect self-knowledge.

Thanks Peter, the pre-existence of the Word and its distinction from the Essence of God (which according to Catholicism is transcendent from Creation) is fully explored by the Baha’i Writing relating to cosmology.

The concept is first elaborated in Proverbs 8:

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

The Word of God and the Essence of God are not one and the same thing. They are both pre-existent of time and space, yet one emanates from the other, as the First Emanation.

This is elaborated further in the Prologue, and further endorsed in Islam where the Prophet says:

“I was a hidden treasure, and loved to be known; thus did I bring the creation into being, that I might be known.”

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[Peter_Plato]

This is elaborated further in the Prologue, and further endorsed in Islam where the Prophet says:

“I was a hidden treasure, and loved to be known; thus did I bring the creation into being, that I might be known.”

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I am pretty certain that Islam does NOT endorse a Trinitarian view of God.

 

[Servant19]

I am pretty certain that Islam does NOT endorse a Trinitarian view of God.

Islam is not a religion of orthodoxy. Scholarship can conclude many outcomes from study of the Quran and the Writings of the Imams.

There are several Traditions and studies that conclude a Trinitarian view of cosmology. The Commander, the Command, the expression.

I can even provide sources where it is proposed that Muhammad is part human/part God.

Even Allah is considered to have a human form. If you google “Anthropomorphic Allah, Shiah” you will read several interesting Shiah Traditions.

Proverbs 8 is the clincher for me personally.

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[Slaney]

Only by Jesus can you enter Heaven, not by Mohammed, there will not be 72 virgins, as if God would sit there and watch a man fornicate with 72 females, catch a grip ! What about the females who murder, what is their reward ? Jesus said we can’t follow two masters, we will love one or hate the other, " I love Jesus ."

 

[shelby_sun]

Only by Jesus can you enter Heaven, not by Mohammed, there will not be 72 virgins, as if God would sit there and watch a man fornicate with 72 females, catch a grip ! What about the females who murder, what is their reward ? Jesus said we can’t follow two masters, we will love one or hate the other, " I love Jesus ."

That is what you believe, just as the Jews and many other religions believe something else. That is what this post is all about. Many other religions have as deep of faith and belief system as Catholics do. You cannot say what make one right over another except to say what you believe is right but you have no proof to make you right except the Bible that you say is the The Truth, but it is really what you believe is The Truth.

 

[Slaney]

That is what you believe, just as the Jews and many other religions believe something else. That is what this post is all about. Many other religions have as deep of faith and belief system as Catholics do. You cannot say what make one right over another except to say what you believe is right but you have no proof to make you right except the Bible that you say is the The Truth, but it is really what you believe is The Truth.

I’ll stick with the one that was recorded in the Bible a string of approved books which recorded the life and death of Jesus. I can say which one is right over the other, if I can’t then I’m in doubt, those that are in doubt are condemned i’m told +++
It has been recorded that Jesus was murdered, died & arose, that is all I need to know, the other faiths have been recorded too, tell me which one was able to have a Saviour that was murdered & arose from the dead ? if you can that’s my choice +++

 

[Servant19]

… if I can’t then I’m in doubt, those that are in doubt are condemned i’m told +++

What is it that doubting such a thing is condemned by God Slaney?

Where in Scripture does it say that questioning your faith, seeking a more complete understanding of Gods awesome grace, and seeking God in other Faiths is a condemnable act?

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[Aloysium]

Luke 17:6 He replied, "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it will obey you.

Matt 17:20 He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”

Matt 8:26 He replied, “You of little faith, why are you so afraid?” Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm.

Matt 21:21 Jesus replied, "Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done.

Mark 9:17-29 A man in the crowd answered, “Teacher, I brought you my son, who is possessed by a spirit that has robbed him of speech. 18 Whenever it seizes him, it throws him to the ground. He foams at the mouth, gnashes his teeth and becomes rigid. I asked your disciples to drive out the spirit, but they could not.”
“You unbelieving generation,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy to me.”
So they brought him. When the spirit saw Jesus, it immediately threw the boy into a convulsion. He fell to the ground and rolled around, foaming at the mouth. Jesus asked the boy’s father, “How long has he been like this?” “From childhood,” he answered. “It has often thrown him into fire or water to kill him. But if you can do anything, take pity on us and help us.”
‘If you can’?” said Jesus. “Everything is possible for one who believes.”
Immediately the boy’s father exclaimed, “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!”
When Jesus saw that a crowd was running to the scene, he rebuked the impure spirit. “You deaf and mute spirit,” he said, “I command you, come out of him and never enter him again.” The spirit shrieked, convulsed him violently and came out. The boy looked so much like a corpse that many said, “He’s dead.” But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him to his feet, and he stood up.
After Jesus had gone indoors, his disciples asked him privately, “Why couldn’t we drive it out?” He replied, “This kind can come out only by prayer.”

John 11:40 Then Jesus said, “Did I not tell you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?”

However:

1Cor 13:2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

 

[Servant19]

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Thankyou Aloysium, but where’s the parts about condemnation?

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[shelby_sun]

I’ll stick with the one that was recorded in the Bible a string of approved books which recorded the life and death of Jesus. I can say which one is right over the other, if I can’t then I’m in doubt, those that are in doubt are condemned i’m told +++
It has been recorded that Jesus was murdered, died & arose, that is all I need to know, the other faiths have been recorded too, tell me which one was able to have a Saviour that was murdered & arose from the dead ? if you can that’s my choice +++

That’s right that is your choice, that doesn’t mean your right. All those other religions are saying the same thing, that their religion has this and that and that’s is why they are right. Maybe God is present Himself in different ways in the world to bring different cultures and people to Him. If He is His plan, I think that is great.

Would you really care if you are lucky enough to make it to heaven to live in eternity with God, if people of other religions were there also? Would question how God’s decisions?