How to deal with my friends who are Jehovah Witnesses?

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MaroniteRosary

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I have 3 friends at school who are Jehovah Witnesses. 2 are brothers and the third one is a friend.

I have been told that I “worship” a idol, referring to Mary and Saints.
I have explained we asked them for prayer and I have said don’t you ask people for prayer? In reply they said " yes but not dead people "

Then they mentioned us having statues. So I asked don’t you have pictures of your dead family members? If so is it worship?
They replied and said yes but we don’t pray to them.

I try to explain to them that we don’t worship idols and these figures and I have showed them things in the bible about the saints and they said" Your bible is fake! It does not mention the word Jehovah but it mentions God instead"

Don’t they know our bible was written way before there’s and theres was edited? How can I explain to them the teachings of the church without this whole debate thing and criticism?

God bless
 
I will try to keep it short but there is much I have to say on JW’s…

In the beginning:
The very 1st thing you must understand about JWs (Jehovah’s Witnesses) is early on they are taught that anything that does not come from their teaching documents (the Watchtower for one) is apostate literature and is considered “of Satan”. See Deu 13: 1-3. This passage and teaching will keep any outsider out and most insiders in. This is what I consider their “Golden Rule”. This concept is not wrong in its purpose (I’m sure all religions teach this to some degree) but the difference is having or not having an open mind about it. As a catholic I have many conversations w/ other non-Catholic Christians about my beliefs or the church teachings and every time the conversation was over they would tell me things like “I didn’t know that” or “I understand now” or “ I understand now but I still don’t agree”. If you have the same conversations with a JWs you will get “no you don’t believe that, you believe…” or no the church does not teach that, it teaches …”. The beliefs are drilled into the minds of the JWs from their teachings of "worship”. What is worship? How should we worship? How should we not worship?

Name of God
JWs use the original question in this thread “Why do you not call God by his real name” to get the interest of “non-believers” working in their favor. They will usually follow up with something like “It says all throughout the bible we are to call upon the name of YHWH” or “…and YHWH is my name” even in a context where a personal name could never mean anything. As you know this is in fact all through the bible. Then they will try to go as far back as possible to find the BEST translation of this YHWH (which is called the Tetragrammaton) to get to Yehovah (or Jehovah in English) see lectio.unibe.ch/05_2/troyer_names_of_god.htm. The problems with this thought process begins with the literal translation. As Christians know “in the name of God” (or whatever name you may call God) means much more than a personal name. Moses had to ask God for his name. Until then, God was fine with “God”, “YHH”, “YA”, Elohim”… as long as it was He we worshiped. We take “ in the name of God, YHWY…” to mean “in the name of all goodness” or” in the name of all righteousness” and therefore when the NT comes along and now Jesus (God) is referred to as kyrios (lord) and we make the Trinitarian connection – hence where in the Hebrew (OT) writings you will see the translation of YHWH to Lord. This change to a JW is blaspheme. This to a JW is blasphemy as they do not believe in the Trinity.

Kyrios (lord) shows up 748 times in the NT. Of this total, I have looked @ 100 entries to date. Of this, when referring to God the NWT (New World Translation) translates kyrios as God or Jehovah 100% of the time. When referring to Jesus the NWT translates the same word (kyrios) as lord. This is even more interesting when you look at it in context - see Rom 10:9-13 among others.

Open Mind
Most all people can agree to disagree on any given topic. If I believe Ben Laden is an evil person and you do not, we will have to agree to disagree. We can discuss it forever but if I can’t convince you he is evil or you convince me he is not, we would end in stalemate. The difference in most people vs. the JW thought process is this: After you fail to convince me Ben Laden is not evil you may feel saddened, frustrated, confused, perplexed…or a number of other feelings but you will be conclude that I do believe Ben Laden is an evil person. The JW’s do not have to believe that I actually believe this. There thought process (teachings) tells them they know better of what I believe. They have no concept of “believe” as in “to believe something must come from the heart”. Their teaching tells them certain actions equal worship no matter the mind or heart. So from this teaching, JW’s can tell anyone what they believe without knowing their heart.

More on next post - God Bless
 
Worship
Ask any JW to open their “You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth” book to page 29, if it’s the same as mine, half way down it states about worship that God approves “It is not any man, but God, who is the judge of what true worship is”.

We all agree there is only one God and He alone we are to worship and/or adore. We all agree all throughout the OT, pagans wrongfully worshiped idols and God condemned them for it. The JWs view all man-made objects as pagan if you show any reverence, honor or respect to them. Protestants do this to some degree also as both of them seem to think Catholics “worship Mary”. For the same reason Catholics are accused of worshipping Mary we are also accused of worshipping the cross, the pope and the flag to mention a few. If we consider what the pagans did back in the OT and consider the gestures we apply to these figures in modern day, it could be understood how someone could misinterpret our intent – someone without an open mind to the truth.

As we know in the OT God had Moses and Aaron build a very ornate meeting tent with much detail to objects, beauty & grandeur. He also had Moses put a serpent on a pole so that when the people looked at it they were healed (Num. 21:8). All of these things were used in true worship to God because God, and God alone, knew their hearts. It was not about the “thing” it was about their intent, their heart.

Is 46:6 Some pour out gold from their bags and weigh out silver on the scales; they hire a goldsmith to make it into a god, and they bow down and worship it. (NIV) Or, if you have the Apocrypha, Wis. 14:8 but the handmade idol is accursed, and its maker as well; he for having produced it, and it, because though corruptible, it was termed a god. When you consider the complete context of the bible on this subject and the fact that God alone knows your heart, you have to conclude that it does not matter what you do or don’t do physically as much as what is in your heart. Not to divide Protestants and JWs here but if JWs would be correct in their thinking then even Protestants are guilty of idol worship when they salute the flag, which I know they are not. This is one reason why JWs are not allowed to join the military. Their belief is a salute is a form of worship. If Protestants believe Catholics worship Mary, then by this argument they must worship the flag or the jewelry they wear.

But here is where the JWs argument of idol worship gets interesting. As I have said the JWs do not/will not believe Jesus is God in any sense. They do not believe in the Trinity. Their bible (NWT – New World Translation) has helped them in so many ways to confirm this notion. The Greek words for worship in the NT is “proskyneo” and “sebo”. Together they are used 70 times in the KJV. In the NWT when referring to God these words are translated as “worship” 100% of the time. The same words, when referring to Jesus translate to “obeisance” (honor) 100% of the time. Even are the passages where there is a double action reference like Mt 2:11 …they saw the young child with Mary its mother, and, falling down, they did obeisance to it [him]NWT. No other translation I looked at, nine in all, had this much consistent bias.

So if JWs believe that bowing, prostrating or kneeling down to someone or something is worshiping that person/object, then all of the references to Jesus should have been translated as “worship”. If they believe all the people did not actually worship Jesus then why should they have a problem with me saluting the flag, having a cross on my wall, or bowing toward the tabernacle?

The NWT had to make these, among many others, changes in their translation in order to completely remove the deity from Jesus which dates back to Arianism before the council of Nicaea 325AD. The NWT is less than 75 years old. Before the NWT the JWs used the KJV.

I will leave you with this and many prayers.
 
MaroniteRosary said:
I have 3 friends at school who are Jehovah Witnesses. 2 are brothers and the third one is a friend.

I have been told that I “worship” a idol, referring to Mary and Saints.
I have explained we asked them for prayer and I have said don’t you ask people for prayer? In reply they said " yes but not dead people "

Then they mentioned us having statues. So I asked don’t you have pictures of your dead family members? If so is it worship?
They replied and said yes but we don’t pray to them.

I try to explain to them that we don’t worship idols and these figures and I have showed them things in the bible about the saints and they said" Your bible is fake! It does not mention the word Jehovah but it mentions God instead"

Don’t they know our bible was written way before there’s and theres was edited? How can I explain to them the teachings of the church without this whole debate thing and criticism?

God bless
Click to expand...
Hello my friend.I wonder if you have thought about this from a different perspective in that you turn this around.

Your friends have been brought up with the beliefs they hold and you with yours.It is difficult and certainly a challenge to constantly have to defend our very faith.Each of you believe the other is wrong in their beliefs.

Perhaps you need not have to defend your faith.Perhaps you could politely tell them you do not question their beliefs and in fact it is not necessary for you to know about their beliefs.
They question your faith repeatedly and you do not question theirs.
Maybe you could tell them that you value their friendship and respect they have their beliefs and ask them to respectfully return the compliment to you. At the same time perhaps you could guide them towards information regarding real catholic beliefs via websites such as this one CAFor any others.This way avoiding arguments and point scoring.You value the friendship of your friends and they have misinformation regarding our beliefs and practices.By them looking for the information themselves and firmly but politely stating that you value their friendship however,
you would appreciate them not consistently questioning your faith as you pay them the courtesy of not questioning theirs. We of course as catholic beleive we have the fullness of truth however we can display by our actions of love for our brothers and sister our faith far more than arguing and proving points.I suspect the more you answer each individual point the more they will question your faith.
I suspect they will be impressed by the way you conduct your life as a loving practising catholic and learn far more from your actions than any other way.
Perhaps try this website…

www.catholic.org/prayers/beliefs.php

God bless
 
MaroniteRosary said:
I have 3 friends at school who are Jehovah Witnesses. 2 are brothers and the third one is a friend.

I have been told that I “worship” a idol, referring to Mary and Saints.
I have explained we asked them for prayer and I have said don’t you ask people for prayer? In reply they said " yes but not dead people "

Then they mentioned us having statues. So I asked don’t you have pictures of your dead family members? If so is it worship?
They replied and said yes but we don’t pray to them.

I try to explain to them that we don’t worship idols and these figures and I have showed them things in the bible about the saints and they said" Your bible is fake! It does not mention the word Jehovah but it mentions God instead"

Don’t they know our bible was written way before there’s and theres was edited? How can I explain to them the teachings of the church without this whole debate thing and criticism?

God bless
Click to expand...
Their faith is hardwired into them. Don’t even bother trying to debate them: they will have far more experience/training/certainty than you.

When I was a prison Chaplain there was a rapist who was a JW who constantly told me that i was going to hell for being a Catholic. The irony of our different “positions” in the prison was totally lost on him.
 
First, pray for them. Then read up. They speak from ignorance of the Catholic faith. Let them know that your faith is the accumulated total of each and every prophet that God has sent for the purpose of revelation, culminating in the revelation by Jesus Christ. Their faith is based entirely on the personal opinion of one alleged con-man (Charles Taze Russell). Nothing more. God sends multiple prophets. His prophets never undo or contradict what has been revealed before. Never. The JW “prophet” did exactly this.

As to the dead: Ask them why Jesus would descend to the dead and preach the Gospel to them, if they were, as the JWs put it “dead” (1 Peter 3:18-20,1 Peter 4:6) Ask them about the various failed prophecies of the Watch Tower. Every single one they have made has failed. Then, ask them for a list of JW miracles that have occurred. Don’t hold your breath. 😉

Better yet, get a copy of Catholicism for Dummies and The Essential Catholic Survival Guide and learn to defend your faith.
 
If you are dealing with Jehovah Witnesse’s if you ask the JW’s if you can come to their “JW Kingdom Hall” then have a sit down with the JW’s.
 
I don’t think I can be friends with those who will proselytize me. I have neo-Arian friends (Iglesia ni Cristo, the Filipino carbon-copy of LDS) but we never talk about religion when we’re together. I know their ministers are very anti-Catholic but I have many friends who belong to that cult and we get along just fine. No discussion of religion and respect for one another is what keeps the friendship alive.
 
Wesley7 said:
If you are dealing with Jehovah Witnesse’s if you ask the JW’s if you can come to their “JW Kingdom Hall” then have a sit down with the JW’s.
Click to expand...
Isn’t that theological suicide?
 
Wesley7 said:
If you are dealing with Jehovah Witnesse’s if you ask the JW’s if you can come to their “JW Kingdom Hall” then have a sit down with the JW’s.
Click to expand...
I personally wouldn’t recommend going to the heart of the issue between these friends, and that is the mistruths that are indoctrinated into these 2 brothers multiple times a week at the Kingdom Hall. Absolutely no good can come from the OP attending a Kingdom Hall or meeting with one of their “elders.”
MaroniteRosary said:
How can I explain to them the teachings of the church without this whole debate thing and criticism?
Click to expand...
I think the problem you are running into is that these two brothers are finally understanding the indoctrination they are being force fed each and every week. As a member of the JW’s they are not to associate with “worldy” people who is basically anyone outside of their organization; outside of “the truth.” At that point they are doing what they have been trained to do, and that is to proselytize you. This is where it gets very difficult, as we are instructed by our Lord and Savior to teach others the truth and to baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Since the JW’s are a cult, we all should do our part to attempt to plant seeds of truth in their minds, and pray for them to come to understand the truth about God. Based on you being in school, this may not be your calling at this exact moment in time. If you truly wish to stay friends with these kids then your best response to their attacks would be to ignore them, and refer them to the Catechism for any questions or information regarding our beliefs. They of course are not allowed to read our written material, but I think the best thing you can do is deflect them in this way. If you begin getting into debates with these kids about religion and beliefs, then that is all that it will ever be going forward in my opinion.

Either way pray for them and for God to continue to guide you in your life. I’ll keep you in my prayers.
 
You all have helped me god bless you all!

I have also forgot to mention they question me " where did Jesus get crucifixed in the bible?"

And then they have asked to borrow my iPod for Internet sources so I replied and said sure:) and then they have pulled me to the watch tower website ( which isent surprising ) and they have pulled me to the truth about Christmas being a pagen holiday?

I think it’s very ignorant. What I have noticed about Jehovah witnesses is that they mainly debate with people in groups to pressure people.
 
Soul sleep is the JW doctrine that says the dead are snoozing. Looking at the Transfiguration, with Moses and Elijah appearing with Jesus Christ glorified, it does not jibe with soul sleep. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz…“To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.”

I once had a JW in high heels run down a muddy hill while I was fishing to offer me Watchtower literature. Her hubby waited in the car. That’s the deal. If you question the JW’s as a JW, you will be shunned, ostracized, cast into the outer darkness. That’s a high price to pay for anybody. May God deliver us from temptation.
 
I grew up Jehovah Witness and left when I was old enough to get my own place and got the heck out of there at 18.

This is what I can tell you from Experience! 99% of what you tell them will fall on deaf ears. They are trained to only talk and never listen. Your best course of action is to NOT debate how your beliefs are correct but show them how their Watchtower Bible Tract Society is not inspired by God (Jehovah).

Example # 1 Deu 18:22 - JW believe that only they know “the truth” but the bible says that if someone makes a prediction and it does not come true, then do not fear him. The message was not from God.

JW have been wrong about 1914, 1945, and 1975. Tell them to read older Watchtowers dating back before 1914. They will be shocked.

Example # 2 Tell them to read their Awake magazine dated July 2009 page 29.
“Is it wrong to change your religion?” This article is helping them convince people that it is okay to leave their faith and join “the truth”. It says no one should have to choice between their beliefs and their family.

What a bunch of ****…If you decide that you no longer believe the JW teachings and decide to follow a different path your family will disown you.

Trust me they worship idols and their idol is the Watchtower & other publications.

Ask them one question…I’m dying to hear the answer… Ask them if they are allowed to get together as a group and study the bible without other literature?

If they say yes, they are lying. One sister was told by the elders she needed the guidence of the literature to understand the bible. “Do not lean upon your own understanding” is beat into your head as a child in the JW faith.

Best of luck with your friends! I will pray that they also wake up and see the light. I’m part of a support group that helps people recover from the religion. Funny if they are the truth then why are so many people suicidal (including myself) when they leave?
 
MaroniteRosary said:
You all have helped me god bless you all!

I have also forgot to mention they question me " where did Jesus get crucifixed in the bible?"

And then they have asked to borrow my iPod for Internet sources so I replied and said sure:) and then they have pulled me to the watch tower website ( which isent surprising ) and they have pulled me to the truth about Christmas being a pagen holiday?

I think it’s very ignorant. What I have noticed about Jehovah witnesses is that they mainly debate with people in groups to pressure people.
Click to expand...
Sadly, pretty much everything they do will be to pressure you into joining their sect. Hammer them on their false prophecies - they have no answer for that. Truth is Jesus Christ. Falseness comes from the evil one.
 
triumphguy said:
Their faith is hardwired into them. Don’t even bother trying to debate them: they will have far more experience/training/certainty than you.

When I was a prison Chaplain there was a rapist who was a JW who constantly told me that i was going to hell for being a Catholic. The irony of our different “positions” in the prison was totally lost on him.
Click to expand...
Interesting…considering JW’s don’t believe anyone “goes to hell”…to them…“hell” is the “grave”…something all humanity experiences not just Catholics…there is no consciousness after death…at the Last Day, the unrepentant will be “un-created”…“annihilated”…“cease to exist”…so one according to JW belief…cannot go to “hell” as understood by other Christian bodies…he obviously didn’t even know what his own faith taught…not only was the “irony” lost on him…but now his statement is used as a “tool” against JW’s…this anecdotal “evidence” hardly portrays JW beliefs of any kind …IMO:shrug:

Irony indeed.
 
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