How to defend against the argument 'religion is the cause of wars'

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Eric_Peter

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As the title suggest, how do you defend against this argument to the atheist?
Just curious how CAF will defend it.
Because in another forum (my local country forum), I’ve seen a lot of argument of the atheist, and one of the most common used argument is
‘Religion is the cause of wars. When two people from different religion disagreeing with each other, they start to force their beliefs on others, and eventually they fight, and then it leads to war’.

They did not specify which war but I don’t think they are ignorant of the Crusades (Christianity vs Muslims), the current on going Israeli-Palestinian war (my country is pro-Palestinian, after all it’s a Muslim country), and even my local country issue where due to the local issue of the word ‘Allah’, eleven churches, a Catholic school, a Sikh temple, two mosques and two Muslim prayer rooms so far have been hit by arson and vandalism attacks, as well as throwing a pig head into a muslim mosque.

These have really convinced the atheist that religion is the source of war and they believed religions should be removed for world peace.

How do you defend against this claim?
 
Eric_Peter said:
As the title suggest, how do you defend against this argument to the atheist?
Just curious how CAF will defend it.
Because in another forum (my local country forum), I’ve seen a lot of argument of the atheist, and one of the most common used argument is
‘Religion is the cause of wars. When two people from different religion disagreeing with each other, they start to force their beliefs on others, and eventually they fight, and then it leads to war’.

They did not specify which war but I don’t think they are ignorant of the Crusades (Christianity vs Muslims), the current on going Israeli-Palestinian war (my country is pro-Palestinian, after all it’s a Muslim country), and even my local country issue where due to the local issue of the word ‘Allah’, eleven churches, a Catholic school, a Sikh temple, two mosques and two Muslim prayer rooms so far have been hit by arson and vandalism attacks, as well as throwing a pig head into a muslim mosque.

These have really convinced the atheist that religion is the source of war and they believed religions should be removed for world peace.

How do you defend against this claim?
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Eric, this is a common question. For me, religion because a source of war only when people ignore the teachings of the Christian religion. Individuals focus on certain parts while ignoring all else. No one is convinced of truth by condemning them to death for their beliefs. This process only creates martyrs for their cause rather than spreads the gospel. We act in patience, love, and charity. We trun the other cheek and we love our enemies. There is a time and a place to protect our loved ones; to defend them. Let us follow the Lord of all and bear the scourge with him; but woe unto them that hurt our little ones.

I hope this brief answer helps in some way.
 
Eric_Peter said:
As the title suggest, how do you defend against this argument to the atheist?
Just curious how CAF will defend it.
Because in another forum (my local country forum), I’ve seen a lot of argument of the atheist, and one of the most common used argument is
‘Religion is the cause of wars. When two people from different religion disagreeing with each other, they start to force their beliefs on others, and eventually they fight, and then it leads to war’.

They did not specify which war but I don’t think they are ignorant of the Crusades (Christianity vs Muslims), the current on going Israeli-Palestinian war (my country is pro-Palestinian, after all it’s a Muslim country), and even my local country issue where due to the local issue of the word ‘Allah’, eleven churches, a Catholic school, a Sikh temple, two mosques and two Muslim prayer rooms so far have been hit by arson and vandalism attacks, as well as throwing a pig head into a muslim mosque.

These have really convinced the atheist that religion is the source of war and they believed religions should be removed for world peace.

How do you defend against this claim?
Click to expand...
It’s not religion per se which is the cause of war. . or indeed of any other evil. It is the actions of individuals who either try to subvert the message of the religious teachings, misinterpret it, or, as you note, try to ‘force’ it on others. It is not religion itself which is at fault.

Ask them what they intend to put in place ‘instead’ of religion. Ask them what statistics they have to ‘prove’ over the same ‘time period’ of ‘religion’ that this ‘different’ system works and produces NO wars.
Ask them if they are comfortable forcing people to deny their religious beliefs (last I looked there were at least 1 billion Catholics ALONE in the world which is 1 out of 7 people. IOW, there are a LOT of ‘believers’ out there. Why should they be ‘forced’ to deny their religion?

Because it seems a ‘simple’ question, people get angry or snippy if they aren’t met with a clear, short ‘answer’ which satisfies them. But the question itself is based on a total misunderstanding of religion itself, AND a total lack of understanding of history and context. Because the actual terms of the question (religion, cause, war) are themselves incorrectly defined, any kind of ‘answer’ has to first correct the wrong terms, give the correct terms, give the context and history, etc.
 
I would state that while religion is quite often the pretext of wars, land use and resources are the actual causes of wars.

Some have argued that in my country (USA) the early settlers killed and drove off the indigenous peoples in order to spread Christianity in the New World… The abundance of resources had nothing to do with it… Of course if you buy that, I’ve got an island in Hudson Bay I’d like to sell you…

You might want to point out the war history of virtually every “atheist” state as well… The USSR and China are good examples.

Then suggest that land and resources should be abolished for world peace.:rolleyes:

God bless
 
Louis Cypher from the movie “Angel Heart”…“Why is it that there is just enough religion int he world for men to hate one another…but not enough for them to love one another?”
 
Religion doesn’t cause war, people cause war. Religion is just an often utilized tool for those who wish to war to sell it to the masses, but not the only tool they use, and not thereby shown to be good or bad. The real causes of war are always the same, the desire for power and possession.
 
land use and resources are the actual causes of wars.
Click to expand...
This. Resources, land, money, and power are most often the causes of war. I’d say religion comes in at a distant 5th place in relation to these. Some wars are started because of religion, race, and ethnicity…but not most. If there were no race, religion, or ethnicity humans would find some other difference to fight over.

On the other hand, religion has done more good for humanity than anything else.
 
Mankind causes war. Some men in history have used religion as a stupidly justifiable reason to start war but that’s mankind’s error, not religion.

The list of wars NOT caused by religion is pretty impressive.

WW I
WW II
The Civil War
The American Revolution
The Gulf War

Just to name a few… ok ok those are the only ones I remember but I’ve not been in a history class for 14 years but I’m sure there are some I’m forgetting.
 
The most deadly and destructive wars have been those of the 20th century. Those wars were not fought in the name of religion, but in the name of communist revolution, nazism, and national ideology. The wars of previous centuries pale in comparison to these. Read Bloodlands, or “The Black Book of Communism” for a sad history of the killings caused by secular wars.
 
Why haven’t we heard of “atheist Just war theory”, yet we have heard of Christian Just War theory? The Christian world was the first group of people to suggest that there are moral limits to go to war. Not just economic or political reasons like whether or not a war would be beneficial or feasible. Christian thinkers were the first to theorize that there are situations where going to war may be advantageous, but it would be immoral to do so.

Also, in most cases when Christians were misbehaving, they were deviating from Christian principles; they failed to meet the Christian standard.

There are some conflicts that have religious aspects, but aren’t solely religious and it wouldn’t be true to claim they are purely religious. For instance, Protestants and Catholics in Ireland are fighting over territory. The same with the Israeli Palestinian situation, they’re fighting over land.

As other people have pointed out there are many wars that were not religious like WW1, WW2, American Revolution, American Civil War, etc. Most of the 20th century wars were the worst and they were led by atheists like Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, and others.
 
We rarely hear about the millions who died under Josef Stalin. What god were the Bolsheviks dying for?

Peace,
Ed
 
Eric_Peter said:
As the title suggest, how do you defend against this argument to the atheist?
Click to expand...
Most wars need a reason and religion is a common denominator exploited by leadership.

That doesn’t necessarily make religion the cause.
 
Eric_Peter said:
‘religions is the cause of wars’… how do you defend against this argument to the atheist?
Click to expand...
Firstly, the presumption is that all wars are unjust. Don’t know that that presumption is necessarily correct. Perhaps what he more precisely claims is ‘religion is the cause of unjust wars’

I can’t defend every religion, as I don’t believe every religion. I do know that the Christian religion teaches that we should love our enemies. It follows that it is in fact the lack of authentically following the Christian precept to love your enemy which is the cause of all wars.

So, when Hitler attempted to exterminate the Jews to promote his Aryan socialism, it was because he failed to be authentically Christian.

When Stalin attempted to exterminate his enemies to promote an atheistic ideology, it is becasuse Stalin failed to be authentically Christian.

When the those in the government of the U.S. attempted to exterminate native Americans to promote the “manifest destiny”, they failed to be authentially Christian.

Sound to me that the solution is to be authentically Christian.
 
Eric_Peter said:
‘religions is the cause of wars’… how do you defend against this argument to the atheist?
Click to expand...
Firstly, the presumption is that all wars are unjust. Don’t know that that presumption is necessarily correct. Perhaps what he more precisely claims is ‘religion is the cause of unjust wars’

I can’t defend every religion, as I don’t believe every religion. I do know that the Christian religion teaches that we should love our enemies. It follows that it is in fact the lack of authentically following the Christian precept to love your enemy which is the cause of all unjust wars.

So, when Hitler attempted to exterminate the Jews to promote his Aryan socialism, it was because he failed to be authentically Christian.

When Stalin attempted to exterminate his enemies to promote an atheistic ideology, it is becasuse Stalin failed to be authentically Christian.

When those governing of the U.S. attempted to exterminate native Americans to promote the “manifest destiny”, they failed to be authentially Christian.

Sounds to me that the solution is to be authentically Christian.
 
Aside from the fact that religion is not in any way ‘proven’ to be ‘the cause of all wars’ (or even most, or some wars). . .

and the fact that religion is in fact ‘proven’ to made valuable contributions to society in areas including but not limited to law, government, education, health care, literacy, marriage and the family, agriculture, etc.,

and the fact that the ‘lack’ of religion is shown to cause detriment to societies throughout history. . .

and that there is no proposed ‘substitute’ given for religion which itself is proven to keep wars from happening. . .

It is not we the religious who need to ‘defend’ religion from stupid propositions presented as ‘truth’. It is the bone-headed perpetrators of such stupid propositions who need to defend why WE should accept their misinformed and incorrect assumptions as truth!
 
itsjustdave1988 said:
Firstly, the presumption is that all wars are unjust. Don’t know that that presumption is necessarily correct. Perhaps what he more precisely claims is ‘religion is the cause of unjust wars’

I can’t defend every religion, as I don’t believe every religion. I do know that the Christian religion teaches that we should love our enemies. It follows that it is in fact the lack of authentically following the Christian precept to love your enemy which is the cause of all wars.

So, when Hitler attempted to exterminate the Jews to promote his Aryan socialism, it was because he failed to be authentically Christian.

When Stalin attempted to exterminate his enemies to promote an atheistic ideology, it is becasuse Stalin failed to be authentically Christian.

When the those in the government of the U.S. attempted to exterminate native Americans to promote the “manifest destiny”, they failed to be authentially Christian.

Sound to me that the solution is to be authentically Christian.
Click to expand...
You really hit the nail on the head! The point is that even though Christians have failed to be perfect Christians in the past, Christianity is the standard they failed to meet. It was not by being a true Christian that these horrible acts were committed, it was by failing to live up to the Christian ideal. This also goes for other issues like the bad popes throughout history and more recently the priest sex abuse scandal. In each case the person committing the crime was not living up to the Christian life, though they are representatives of Christianity. To me this is the strongest indication that humans are truly fallen.
 
Also keep in mind that until the enlightenment of the 18th century, there were practically no atheists around. Is it any wonder that many wars prior to the 18th century involved religious people?

Just because everybody fighting wars wanted to claim they had God on their side does not necessarily mean that their religions were responsible for the war.
 
Beyond a doubt the same God created all people, the same God hears all our prayers despite all our differences. We all have a duty to care for all of God’s creation, which means caring for each other.
Why would the same One God want any of us to kill each other for wrong beliefs?
Blessings
Eric
 
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