How to dramatically reduce gun violence in American cities

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

To imagine that ordinary people could have risen up against the Nazis 80 years ago is not even as insane as thinking that ordinary Americans could rise up against the US government and its modern day armoury though.

You’re making a perfect argument for 2nd amendment and gun rights in line with Founding Fathers.

The scope of Government weaponry (as you outline) being so vast mandates citizens arm themselves to prevent future tyrannical genocide. In fact, that’s why 2nd amendment discusses a “militia”, it required every able bodied man to have a gun in his house in event he was called to resist a tyrannical government. So I just want to thank you for making the case so well and pointing out how much the scales are tipped and out of balance and clearly that citizenry need to arm up and balance the scales.

It’s fairly easy to predict that any sort of armed uprising would go the way of the Oregon farmers. There was no semblance of an effective militia and the government locked them up. There is no possible way that having a gun means the ‘scales are balanced’. Think about it. A ‘tyrannical government’ will always have a massive advantage over a rag tag bunch of unorganised individuals with a gun and no plan. It’s a fantasy.

 

[TK421]

@Aquinas

The argument defies all realities of how the world works.

There is no such thing as a single Sauron-like figure rising up to oppress everybody else. Ever. That only exists in comics for children. It wasn’t even true in the ancient world, let alone today. Authoritarian regimes rise up from the inside with strong support by the population. It is the only way it can happen, otherwise it is just a random band of misfits that get locked up and nobody gives it a second thought.

You can’t use common people as a safeguard against tyranny because common people are the tyrants.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

I have to laugh when I see this claim made. In 1939 Jews made up a mere 0.42% of the German population. Halve that to account for the percentage that would be capable of using a gun and it’s truly laughable to believe that being armed against the troops of the 3rd Reich and every other Jew hating German with a gun, would have saved the them.

Another excellent argument for more guns. If a mere 0.42% can’t defeat an armed Government, then your post makes the argument that far more % need to own guns for citizenry to effectively resist tyranny! Excellent point!!

Only 0.42% of Germans were Jewish. How are you proposing to increase the Jewish population at the time, into a larger percentage?

 

[TK421]

For over two hundred years, might and the right to bear arms was used to lord it over African slaves, resulting in a net sum of misery and death that surpassed the six million killed in the Holocaust.

There is no such thing as common people fighting against a lone tyrant. It is a fiction.

It is all of us. We are the tyrants. Anybody who condones or supports evil because it is convenient. It applies to streetsweepers and kings. If you dont succeed at developing and forming the hearts and consciences of the citizenry, nothing else matters. The human heart is ground zero. Arming people who are nothing more than a collection of miniature tyrants is meaningless.

 

[pnewton]

From the article:

On the other hand, some scholars point to a radically lower estimate of only 108,000 annual defensive uses based on the National Crime Victimization Survey (Cook et al., 1997). The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field. The estimate of 3 million defensive uses per year is based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. The former estimate of 108,000 is difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.

Lest confirmation bias lead some to consider the low number junk, and others the high number junk, suffice it to say that defensive use is something that must be considered in any gun policy.

 

[Moose]

I guess that ignorance is bliss…
Good luck. You need it.

 

[Moose]

Lunacy; idiocy; fallacy; it’s always non-fiction in your mind, huh?

 

[Odilon]

To imagine that ordinary people could have risen up against the Nazis 80 years ago is not even as insane as thinking that ordinary Americans could rise up against the US government and its modern day armoury though.

The fact is, some Jews did rise up against the Nazi’s especially in countries like Poland and Russia. The famous Bielski brothers banded together with other Jews and fought the Germans right to the end of the war using captured German weapons.

While it would have been hard for civilians to defeat the whole German Army, gun control was always one of the first things the Nazi’s did - first in Germany and then in the occupied territories. They wanted to have an unarmed populace to make their rule easier. The death sentence was the standard penalty for not turning in your guns.

And should something of that magnitude ever happen here, I bet the populace would give the authorities a run for their money. An armed citizenry would be one big pain in the you know what to those in control.

 

[Theo520]

That issue can play no credible part as a pro gun argument in the US of today.

Of course it can

 

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

To imagine that ordinary people could have risen up against the Nazis 80 years ago is not even as insane as thinking that ordinary Americans could rise up against the US government and its modern day armoury though.

The fact is, some Jews did rise up against the Nazi’s especially in countries like Poland and Russia. The famous Bielski brothers banded together with other Jews and fought the Germans right to the end of the war using captured German weapons. They got their weapons from the German soldiers they killed.

The Warsaw Ghetto uprising lasted for 27 days and was doomed from the start. In that time 13000 Jews died to 150 Germans. One of the Jewish commanders who survived stated their motivation for the uprising was “to pick the time and place of our deaths”. I very much doubt that Americans would choose pro gun stance if this was what they were promised.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

it’s always non-fiction in your mind, huh?

Do you mean fiction?

 

[Odilon]

The Warsaw Ghetto uprising lasted for 27 days and was doomed from the start. In that time 13000 Jews died to 150 Germans. One of the Jewish commanders who survived stated their motivation for the uprising was “to pick the time and place of our deaths”. I very much doubt that Americans would choose pro gun stance if this was what they were promised.

If the only option was that you would be killed, many people in this nation would indeed choose “to pick the time and place” of their deaths. There are simply too many ex - military folks in our country who would fight for their liberty and their lives. You underestimate the people of our nation.

 

[TARRAT]

The amendment was not historically applied that way, but in any case, that was the interpretation of the people who wrote the constitution but it isn’t a correct understanding. There is no such divinely given right in Christian history and there never was.

I don’t know if you can say it is divinely given, however the apostles, at least St. Peter, carried a weapon. When he used it, to cut off the high priests ear,
Jesus told him to put it up but He could have given the command during his previous three years to not carry weapons, or He could have said they were banned for all times, but He didn’t. Could we take that as a divine acknowledgement that we have a right to protect ourselves with weapons if need be.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

The Warsaw Ghetto uprising lasted for 27 days and was doomed from the start. In that time 13000 Jews died to 150 Germans. One of the Jewish commanders who survived stated their motivation for the uprising was “to pick the time and place of our deaths”. I very much doubt that Americans would choose pro gun stance if this was what they were promised.

If the only option was that you would be killed, many people in this nation would indeed choose “to pick the time and place” of their deaths. There are simply too many ex - military folks in our country who would fight for their liberty and their lives. You underestimate the people of our nation.

Even those ex-military folk have divided political views. It’s far far more likely that there is a civil war between the pro and anti government supporters than a united front amongst the general population against a single tyrant.

 

[Odilon]

Even those ex-military folk have divided political views. It’s far far more likely that there is a civil war between the pro and anti government supporters than a united front amongst the general population against a single tyrant.

I think that the great majority of them are more conservative than liberal. If you had a government that started shredding the Constitution, I would bet that even many now in the military would side with the patriot/constitutional forces. Look at how Democrat elected officials look at our Constitution now, they want to change it, not defend it as the oaths they took specify. The former “Dear Leader” Obama wanted to impose a “Fundamental Transformation” on the country, so all I can say is thank God for President Trump.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

Even those ex-military folk have divided political views. It’s far far more likely that there is a civil war between the pro and anti government supporters than a united front amongst the general population against a single tyrant.

I think that the great majority of them are more conservative than liberal. If you had a government that started shredding the Constitution, I would bet that even ,many now in the military would side with the patriot forces. Look at how the Democrat elected officials look at our Constitution now, they want to change it, not defend it as the oaths they took specify.

I’m trying to get a picture of what you are imagining. When you say you bet many of the military would side with the patriot forces, what is ‘the patriot forces’? Is that the current government forces? That would mean they were participating in the government tyranny?

 

[adamhovey1988]

I keep a gun in my house. I do not have a conceal carry permit so it does not leave my house. I have never shot anyone with it. And what about subsistence hunters? Are you going to tell them they can’t eat? Why is it that whenever guns come up, some think they can magically solve the problems by taking guns away? I have lived in very dangerous areas, sometimes, people don’t kill people with guns, sometimes their houses are burnt down. Should we take matches away? Sometimes they are stabbed. Should we take knives away? With all due respect, your solution is too simplistic and doesn’t take one very simple thing into consideration: Criminals don’t follow the law. So, would you rather leave innocent people defenseless when they are attacked?

 

[Emeraldlady]

I keep a gun in my house. I do not have a conceal carry permit so it does not leave my house. I have never shot anyone with it. And what about subsistence hunters? Are you going to tell them they can’t eat? Why is it that whenever guns come up, some think they can magically solve the problems by taking guns away?

Gun control countries don’t ban guns for hunting. I myself could qualify to own a gun if I demonstrated a subsistence need.

 

[Emeraldlady]

With all due respect, your solution is too simplistic and doesn’t take one very simple thing into consideration: Criminals don’t follow the law. So, would you rather leave innocent people defenseless when they are attacked?

People are empowered and embolden by having a gun. Even the weakest. Hence the culture of puny, awkward, boys shooting up schools.

 

[Odilon]

what is ‘the patriot forces’? Is that the current government forces?

No, the patriot forces would be those who would be against those in power and were taking away the liberties of the people . Look, all the high and mighty here in America have armed security and we have one political party (the Democrats) who seek to take away the right to an effective means of self defense from the average citizen. It is one infringement after another from those people, so if they ever got complete control of the government they would go full bore after our gun rights,- of that you can be sure.

You mentioned gun control countries, do you live in one?