how to educate my son with a non-catholic wife

[jnuevo]

Life is a little more complicated that what things should be, suppose the following scenario:

She got pregnant, the father takes his responsability and then he discovers that she is non catholic (yes I know …)

There is no marriage by the church, but nevertheless the father is interested in rising his son in his faith. Beyond any criticism, any hint on tackle the problem is quitely appreciated. Every religion has good things, but I am not quite sure of the JWs. Her family is not so educated, they had been hard indoctrinated and any reasonable discussion is pointless. My advantage … they are abroad, my family and environment supports me.

My position: with patience, respect, tolerance and firm determination, try to teach my boy.
The problem: By internet, the JWs had reached my wife, and started sending information. She wants to take the child to their reunion (because I take him to church) … which I cannot oppose -well actually I did). The issue is that there is true love and comprehension between the parents. Hard problem I know, just want to know some points of view.

kind regards

 

[1holycatholic]

Why are the Catholics here so intent on spreading this lie? They have been corrected many, many times.

From this website:

foryourmarriage.org/catholic-marriage/catholic-beliefs/faqs/

When a Catholic marries a non-Catholic, must the non-Catholic promise to raise the children in the Catholic faith?

The non-Catholic spouse does not have to promise to have the children raised Catholic.

And from here:

foryourmarriage.org/catholic-marriage/church-teachings/interfaith-marriages/

Because of these challenges, the church requires the Catholic party to be faithful to his or her faith and to “promise to do all in his or her power” to have their children baptized and raised in the Catholic faith. This provision of the 1983 Code of Canon Law – with its wording to try one’s best – is a change from the 1917 version, which required an absolute promise to have the children raised Catholic.

Likewise, the non-Catholic spouse is no longer required to promise to raise the children in the Catholic faith, but “to be informed at an appropriate time of these promises which the Catholic party has to make, so that it is clear that the other party is truly aware of the promise and obligation of the Catholic party,” the code states.

But suppose the non-Catholic party insists that the children will not be raised Catholic? The diocese can still grant permission for the marriage, as long as the Catholic party promises to do all he or she can to fulfill that promise, Hater writes.

Mixed marriages and disparity of cult (site vatican.va - Catechism of the Catholic Church)
1635 According to the law in force in the Latin Church, a mixed marriage needs for liceity the express permission of ecclesiastical authority.137 In case of disparity of cult an express dispensation from this impediment is required for the validity of the marriage.138 **This permission or dispensation presupposes that both parties know and do not exclude the essential ends and properties of marriage; and furthermore that the Catholic party confirms the obligations, which have been made known to the non-Catholic party, of preserving his or her own faith and ensuring the baptism and education of the children in the Catholic Church.**139

 

[Justin1982]

Parents need to decide on a faith to raise their children in BEFORE they get married, and then sign a pre-nup or some sort of agreement about which faith the child will be raised in. The only exception being if BOTH parents leave the faith they chose for their child, and then of course the child will be raised in the new faith they choose together. Religion is a spiritual journey and many people go through several sets of beliefs in their lifetime.

If the wife didn’t want her child to be raised Catholic, why did she get married in a Catholic Church? That doesn’t make sense to me. You should get married in the church you decide to go to during your married life.

As for her family pressuring her, they need to butt out. Marriage is between only two people and they need to solve problems among themselves. Many in-laws don’t respect boundaries anymore, and that only causes more problems. Especially if they don’t particularly like their family member’s spouse in the first place. No wonder the divorce rate is so high!

I was married in the Church prior to becoming Catholic, though I was in RCIA and my wife is a cradle Catholic I had to sign documentation that we would raise our children Catholic.

I would say that the divorce rate is so high because of the society we live in, not so much because of in-laws. Many do not respect the Marriage Covenant and always see divorce as an easy way out as opposed to seeing their way through when things get hard. Of course so many rush into marriage without truly exploring what their partner is all about prior to taking the leap.

 

[anns82]

I don’t really want to just repeat what has already been said multiple times, but I do want to commend you on your realization in the importance of you have on your child’s spiritual life.

I’ve listened to a lecture recently on the faiths of Freud and CS Lewis (it is very interesting - I highly recommend it if you have a chance), and something the speaker pointed out was that both Freud and Lewis’ relationship with their fathers greatly influenced their relationship with God and their world view. With the father being the authority figure, and the very obvious connection with knowing “God the Father,” a child seeing their authority figure recognize a higher authority figure has a strong effect on the child’s approach to God. Thus, your example as a Catholic goes a very long way.

 

[Cristiano]

… With the father being the authority figure, and the very obvious connection with knowing “God the Father,” a child seeing their authority figure recognize a higher authority figure has a strong effect on the child’s approach to God. Thus, your example as a Catholic goes a very long way.

This is exactly one of the points that Benedict XVI makes in his book “The God of Jesus Christ: Meditations on the Triune God”. He also explains that the reason of decline in a religious culture is due to the collapse of the family unit and absence of fathers.

 

[rinnie]

I request for constructive advices of how to deal with a situation where the family of my wife is Jehova witnesses. My wife was not too observant of her religion and I could take over the religious education of my boy ( 4 years old) taking him to mass, start talking him about the virgin, God (even his very short age). But now my wife’s family (who lives in another country) is pushing my wife to take a more active role.

I know it’s her right, I know that my wife and me want the best for our child. But I am really worry about how to deal with this situation in the following years.

I know I have to prepare and study myself to deal with this, but do you know specific literature about similar situations?

thanks for your understanding and constructive responses

Keep taking him to mass and continue to educate him in the faith. Because if he is educated and has been taught the fullness of the truth he will always return to the truth.

 

[NoAvailableName]

Mixed marriages and disparity of cult (site vatican.va - Catechism of the Catholic Church)
1635 According to the law in force in the Latin Church, a mixed marriage needs for liceity the express permission of ecclesiastical authority.137 In case of disparity of cult an express dispensation from this impediment is required for the validity of the marriage.138 **This permission or dispensation presupposes that both parties know and do not exclude the essential ends and properties of marriage; and furthermore that the Catholic party confirms the obligations, which have been made known to the non-Catholic party, of preserving his or her own faith and ensuring the baptism and education of the children in the Catholic Church.**139

I’m not sure if you were agreeing or disagreeing with me, but there is nothing in there which refutes my claim. The Catholic party makes the pledge, and the non-Catholic is informed of such pledge, but does not also make the pledge.

 

[1holycatholic]

I’m not sure if you were agreeing or disagreeing with me, but there is nothing in there which refutes my claim. The Catholic party makes the pledge, and the non-Catholic is informed of such pledge, but does not also make the pledge.

Any children will be baptized Catholics and instructed in the faith by the Catholic spouse who is obligated to do so. The non-Catholic knows this going into the marriage.

In every mixed marriage the children are to be baptized and instructed in the Catholic faith.

The Catholic parent has that obligation, the non-Catholic knows the children are going to be baptized and instructed in the Catholic faith. That doesn’t mean the party outside the Church has to instruct the children in the Catholic faith.

I’m not sure if you were agreeing or disagreeing with me.

 

[NoAvailableName]

In every mixed marriage the children are to be baptized and instructed in the Catholic faith.

Well I know some people will dig in their heels and believe whatever they want, regardless of the evidence. However, for those who wish to actually know what the Catholic Church teaches, I will again quote from a website that claims to be “An initiative of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops” I put the most relevant paragraph to this discussion in boldface type.

For your marriage

Of all the challenges an interfaith couple will face, the most pressing one likely will be the question of how they raise their children.

“The church makes clear … that their marriages will be more challenging from the perspective of faith,” Hater writes. “… Special challenges exist as well when it comes to raising children in the Catholic faith.”

Because of these challenges, the church requires the Catholic party to be faithful to his or her faith and to “promise to do all in his or her power” to have their children baptized and raised in the Catholic faith. This provision of the 1983 Code of Canon Law – with its wording to try one’s best – is a change from the 1917 version, which required an absolute promise to have the children raised Catholic.

Likewise, the non-Catholic spouse is no longer required to promise to raise the children in the Catholic faith, but “to be informed at an appropriate time of these promises which the Catholic party has to make, so that it is clear that the other party is truly aware of the promise and obligation of the Catholic party,” the code states.

But suppose the non-Catholic party insists that the children will not be raised Catholic? The diocese can still grant permission for the marriage, as long as the Catholic party promises to do all he or she can to fulfill that promise, Hater writes. The marriage may be legal, he notes, but is it a wise choice? Those are questions that may also need to be explored in marriage preparation.

If children are raised in another faith, he notes, “the Catholic parent must show children good example, affirm the core beliefs of both parents’ religious traditions, make them aware of Catholic beliefs and practices and support the children in the faith they practice.”

 

[Cristiano]

…But suppose the non-Catholic party insists that the children will not be raised Catholic? The diocese can still grant permission for the marriage, as long as the Catholic party promises to do all he or she can to fulfill that promise, Hater writes. The marriage may be legal, he notes, but is it a wise choice? Those are questions that may also need to be explored in marriage preparation.…

In order for a Catholic to marry a non Catholic the first needs a dispensation from the Bishop. I seriously doubt that any Bishop would grant such a dispensation if the non Catholic insists that the children would not be raised as Catholics, it would go against is duty as a Bishop. That would be the same thing as if a spouse were set on not having children at all. Then the priest or the Bishop should refuse permission to the marriage.

 

[1holycatholic]

In order for a Catholic to marry a non Catholic the first needs a dispensation from the Bishop. I seriously doubt that any Bishop would grant such a dispensation if the non Catholic insists that the children would not be raised as Catholics, it would go against is duty as a Bishop. That would be the same thing as if a spouse were set on not having children at all. Then the priest or the Bishop should refuse permission to the marriage.

One party promises to fulfill their obligation to raise the children in the Catholic faith and the other promises to thwart the obligation of the Catholic spouse.

Not a recipe for a successful marriage.

 

[1holycatholic]

Well I know some people will dig in their heels and believe whatever they want, regardless of the evidence. However, for those who wish to actually know what the Catholic Church teaches, I will again quote from a website that claims to be “An initiative of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops” I put the most relevant paragraph to this discussion in boldface type.

I posted what the Church teaches from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The USCCB has no standing - zero.

 

[rinnie]

According to the Teaching’s of the RCC when you get married in the Church and if one party is not Catholic it has to agree to allow the Children to be raised Catholic.

I know this for a fact.

But here it is in the CCC 1635 According to the Law in the Latin Church a mixed marriage needs for liceity the express permission of ecclesiastical authority. In case of disparity of cult an express dispensation from this impediment is required for the validity of the marriage. This PERMISSION or dispensation PRESUPPOSES that both parties KNOW and DO NOT EXCLUDE the essential ends and properties of marriage and futhermore that the CATHOLC party cofirms the obligations which have been MADE KNOWN to the Non-Catholic Party of PRE-Serving his or her OWN FAITH and ENSURING the BAPTISM and EDUCATION of the CHILDREN in the CATHOLIC CHURCH.

So in order to be married in the RCC you must agree that the Child will be brought up in the faith.

 

[NoAvailableName]

I seriously doubt that any Bishop would grant such a dispensation if the non Catholic insists that the children would not be raised as Catholics

The USCCB has no standing

You two might not like what the USCCB is doing, but it is nevertheless US Catholic Bishops that are granting the dispensations, and there would be no reason for them to lie about their intentions/actions on the foryourmarriage website.

But here it is in the CCC 1635 … So in order to be married in the RCC you must agree that the Child will be brought up in the faith.

The “essential ends and properties of marriage” is to be known and followed by both parties. You will notice that the segway into raising children uses the word “furthermore”, which implies the CCC is about to talk about something beyond the “essential ends and properties”. The CCC clearly states the the Catholic party makes the promise, and that such promise is made known to the non-Catholic party. The non-Catholic party is under no obligation.

If you read CCC 1635 along with the foryourmarriage website, what is going on is clear. The Roman Catholic Church greatly prefers that children be raised Catholic. Nevertheless, United States bishops do little to nothing to prevent marriages from ocurring where there is little to no chance any children will be raised Catholic. If they were actually preventing such marriages from ocurring, there would be a lot fewer marraiges being performed in the Catholic Church.

One party promises to fulfill their obligation to raise the children in the Catholic faith and the other promises to thwart the obligation of the Catholic spouse.

Not a recipe for a successful marriage.

Most of the Catholics who are marrying outside of their faith aren’t going to care about doing what the Catholic Church wants them to do, so I think you are greatly exaggerating the problem (as it relates to the success of marriage) in most cases.

 

[Cristiano]

You two might not like what the USCCB is doing, but it is nevertheless US Catholic Bishops that are granting the dispensations, and there would be no reason for them to lie about their intentions/actions on the foryourmarriage website…

I think that you are mixing up things to make your point. While I understand that a non-Catholic does not have to be bound to the requirement of raising children Catholics, that does not imply that the non Catholic spouse is allowed to choose since the very beginning to be firmly against and/or boycott such education. The Bishops grant permission to marriages between a Catholic and a non-Catholic only if there is a reasonable possibility that the children will be raised as Catholics. People can lie to the Bishop just to get married, or people can change their opinion after the marriage. The first would make a marriage invalid, the second would make a marriage valid but much more difficult than initially expected.

 

[Cristiano]

…If you read CCC 1635 along with the foryourmarriage website, what is going on is clear. The Roman Catholic Church greatly prefers that children be raised Catholic. Nevertheless, United States bishops do little to nothing to prevent marriages from ocurring where there is little to no chance any children will be raised Catholic. If they were actually preventing such marriages from ocurring, there would be a lot fewer marraiges being performed in the Catholic Church…

1635 According to the law in force in the Latin Church, a mixed marriage needs for liceity the express permission of ecclesiastical authority. In case of disparity of cult an express dispensation from this impediment is required for the validity of the marriage. This permission or dispensation presupposes that both parties know and do not exclude the essential ends and properties of marriage and the obligations assumed by the Catholic party concerning the baptism and education of the children in the Catholic Church.

That simply says that a non-Catholic spouse cannot obstruct the Catholic education of any child born from that marriage. So it is not a preference of the Catholic Church but an expectation.

In reference to your comment of what the Bishops do I would like to see a documented reference to such a loaded statement.

 

[Jon_Hus]

Life is a little more complicated that what things should be, suppose the following scenario:

She got pregnant, the father takes his responsability and then he discovers that she is non catholic (yes I know …)

There is no marriage by the church, but nevertheless the father is interested in rising his son in his faith. Beyond any criticism, any hint on tackle the problem is quitely appreciated. Every religion has good things, but I am not quite sure of the JWs. Her family is not so educated, they had been hard indoctrinated and any reasonable discussion is pointless. My advantage … they are abroad, my family and environment supports me.

My position: with patience, respect, tolerance and firm determination, try to teach my boy.
The problem: By internet, the JWs had reached my wife, and started sending information. She wants to take the child to their reunion (because I take him to church) … which I cannot oppose -well actually I did). The issue is that there is true love and comprehension between the parents. Hard problem I know, just want to know some points of view.

kind regards

The problem you have Sir is that the JWs will totally cut you and your wife (and child) off from her family. This you are probably finding out. The doctrines of the JWs are complex and ever changing and depending on your particular situation totally impossible to predict as to outcome. Some of the advice you are getting here is what could be defined as hostile to the family, the JWs even more so.

If you are still looking for free advice, mine would be for you and your wife to have a free and frank discussion on where you want to go as a couple. If you can create a united front and craft a rock solid relationship then no matter who gets their feeling hurt because you took a path they didn’t agree with your marrage and family will stay strong. My inlaws basically wrote my wife and I off due to religious beliefs and it was hard to cope with but we managed because we were in agreement on religion and had a relationship stronger than the desires of our family to share their religion.

I wish you well.
Jon

 

[NoAvailableName]

I think that you are mixing up things to make your point. While I understand that a non-Catholic does not have to be bound to the requirement of raising children Catholics, that does not imply that the non Catholic spouse is allowed to choose since the very beginning to be firmly against and/or boycott such education. The Bishops grant permission to marriages between a Catholic and a non-Catholic only if there is a reasonable possibility that the children will be raised as Catholics. People can lie to the Bishop just to get married, or people can change their opinion after the marriage. The first would make a marriage invalid, the second would make a marriage valid but much more difficult than initially expected.

I think we’ve both said enough to let others make up their own minds, but if you want to continue, I would prefer you start a new thread in an appropriate forum as I doubt the OP and most others care about this debate, though I think it is an important one. Perhaps with an impartially worded poll as well?

 

[jnuevo]

Thank you all for your comments
kind regards

 

[1holycatholic]

1635 According to the law in force in the Latin Church, a mixed marriage needs for liceity the express permission of ecclesiastical authority. In case of disparity of cult an express dispensation from this impediment is required for the validity of the marriage. This permission or dispensation presupposes that both parties know and do not exclude the essential ends and properties of marriage and the obligations assumed by the Catholic party concerning the baptism and education of the children in the Catholic Church.

That simply says that a non-Catholic spouse cannot obstruct the Catholic education of any child born from that marriage. So it is not a preference of the Catholic Church but an expectation.

In reference to your comment of what the Bishops do I would like to see a documented reference to such a loaded statement.

Don’t hold your breath.