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aragonjohn1
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May God bless and keep You
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Adamski
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So I met a hindu man at catholic church Sunday. He was there because his wife converted and they are raising their children catholic. I talked to him along time after church, we have brunch after every church service at our church. I told him where he could listen
To catholic radio and told him about catholic.com
To catholic radio and told him about catholic.com
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MartinJordan
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Awesome!
I also know a Hindu married to a Catholic.All the kids are Baptised and Confirmed in the Catholic Church. The good news? He converted after his third son’s Baptism. Plus he’s got the one of the biggest jobs in the land as I say it
And very active in the Church getting commendation from the Archdiocese. :extrahappy:MJ
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reb108
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This morning I saw something amazing that made me think of what you had originally posted. A young cardinal landed in this whiskey barrel, pecking for seeds. Then a huge Spanish dove swooped down and landed about 10 inches away. Talk about their cultures being completely different from each other, as I am sure the baby cardinal knows nothing about the world of doves. I couldn’t help but watch in wonder at the sudden and dramatic arrival of the larger bird, flapping its wings loudly on its approach. Then it walk right over to the small cardinal, almost touching it. Yet, until my dog came bounding down the stairs, they were just as peaceful as could be, each just pecking for seeds. No screaming. No squawking. No fighting. No bullying. Just sharing in the seed droppings. The Spanish dove is attracted to a certain kind of seed; the baby cardinal to a different one. This is actually the peace formula proposed years ago by a famous Hindu Saint. We should all strive to be like these two birds who were only focused on the common goal of eating seeds, regardless of their different race and cultures. Hindus have their unique culture and you have yours; just as alien as the cardinals are to the doves. As far as your two religions, you like picking Jesus while they like picking Krsna. Cardinals like picking sunflower seeds whereas Spanish doves likes picking white millet. The point is, the problem really lies with the one who wants to shout. The big dove doesn’t mind that the little cardinal sees food entirely differently from how it does. So let other people worship God as they choose. If you would give up trying to convince other people that your way is superior and instead, just be a loving, friendly Catholic, I am sure you would soon see Hindus in a much different light. Who gave you the religious-sheriff’s badge to enforce the worship of Mary? They prefer to worship Radharani. Both are found in the same “barrel” so to speak: within the realm of God and the Holy Scriptures. Anyhow, you asked for ideas and this morning I was thinking like this.
http://www.cedarpost.com/uploads/3/1/3/6/3136493/2095715_orig.jpg
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SteveVH
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But there are not different gods for different people. You are trying to set up a scenario of moral equivalency that just isn’t there. Our beliefs contradict yours and vice versa. There are only two conclusions that can be drawn from this. Either both are wrong or only one is right. Truth can never conflict with truth.
As far as Catholic beliefs being enforced, you are free to believe anything you wish to believe. Of course the Catholic is going to believe that the Christian way is the superior way or they would not be Catholic. You obviously believe that the Hindu way is superior. Good for you. Is anyone forcing you to believe differently?
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reb108
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I don’t believe that the Catholics and Hindus are both wrong. So yes, I am saying they are both right; something you are saying cannot exist. Why do you say both cannot be right; that truth only exist with one? On the surface what you say sounds rather correct and certainly Biblical, but God is inconceivable. I, for one, have taken a lot of time and a good sum of money to purchase and read Catholic books - watch Catholic movies. I read every day and for 3 years I have been reading only Catholic books. You can add that up. And for me personally, having now experienced so much from these holy books, I will be the first to tell ANYONE that the truth is there in the Catholic church. The universal activity and message in the Catholic church is one of love. And yes, I have spent just as much effort understanding the spiritual message of India. As I said, I don’t find either wrong. So we don’t see eye-to-eye on this point. Look, I am just trying to be honest with myself. I pray for humility and above all not to offend God. I go to the North Pole and find ice. I go to the South Pole and I find ice. Hmm…ice is in both places. I listen to St. Gemma Galgani and I find a loving God. I listen to Lord Chaitanya and I find a loving God. What am I suppose to think? Your conclusions results in offending God, which is why I would suggest a better approach. Therefore, its just a lot more satisfying to say that God has sent out not one, but two enormous waves of love. If I deny this, then I am saying that love is limited, thatGod is limited, and that He is not capable of sending out two waves. And are they really so different? The substance (like salt water) that the two waves are made of are equal: love. But yes, when each wave is examined closely, in the same way that ocean waves are different (in size, amount of seaweed, types of fish, other object within each wave such as wood or a message in a bottle), the two religious waves are also very different in content. But all that is superficial. And actually, if you took the time, as I have, to look in depth at each wave, the differences are not so different. And especially not the love of God that both share. Both say there is one God. Both say that we are the servants of this one God. Both teach trust, humility, and love of God. So I suggest that the two churches are like brother and sister, fulfilling your position that Truth can never conflict with truth. In this way both the brother and sister are right. If people want to say that there cannot be a brother and sister, than I say they are saying that God is limited in what He can do. And that is what’s impossible.
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SteveVH
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Let me clarify. Yes, truth exists within the Hindu religion. Some truth exists in all religions. As Catholics, we believe that Christ is the fulfillment of God’s revelation of himself to mankind. In him, and only in him subsists the fullness of truth. He is God’s only Word. Christ made certain promises concerning the Church which he would build. One of those promises is that he would send the Holy Spirit to guide the Church into all truth. So, while we believe that every religion has truth to one degree or another, and we would embrace that truth, we believe that it is only the Catholic Church that possesses the fullness of truth found in Christ alone.
Now let’s get a little more specific, as far as conflicting beliefs are concerned. Hindus believe in reincarnation. This is in direct conflict to the Christian belief that we have one life and will be resurrected to spend eternity either in heaven or in hell.
Now, this is a fairly important point when considering the major human question of our eternal destiny, is it not? One of us must be wrong on this point. One cannot simultaneously believe both in reincarnation and the resurrection. Do you see my point? We cannot just go off patting each other on the back and pretend that we both have the truth concerning our eternal destiny. Either only one is correct or both are wrong. There is no other possible conclusion. And when it comes to my eternal destiny, I want to be right, and I think you probably do as well. So the question remains. Who is correct on these major questions of human existence and ultimate human destiny? Certainly not both.
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SteveVH
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Only two? What do you say to the Buddhist, the Baha’i, the Sikh, the Muslim, the Jew, the Animist? Are they all correct as well? Why should we believe anything? It may be more satisfying for you to say what you say, but satisfaction is no measure of the truth. Truth exists regardless of whether or not we believe it or are even aware of it.
The truth is that God does not withhold his love from any human. But that does not mean that every human accepts the truth he has revealed.
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SteveVH
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Very well. Where there is truth we accept that truth. But where there is conflict we must discern which is true and which is not. The fact that we may agree on certain principles does not then mean that we can just ignore our differences. What do we do with the other issues in which our beliefs conflict with and contradict one another?
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manualman
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I’m far from an expert on eastern religions, but Hindu thinking generally tends to result in a caste system by which those who are well off come to believe that they deserve it from accumulating ‘good karma’ in previous lives and simultaneously are tempted to believe that the wretched poor ALSO deserve it due to bad karma.
The hallmark of Christian evangelization through the centuries is NOT that the rich and powerful convert and carry the peasants along with them, but that the poor discover Christ and rejoice. Over time, the rich cannot sustain themselves without the poor to exploit and things change.
There may not BE a terribly effective way to evangelize rich Hindu immigrants in America. Try anyway. As Mother Theresa said, we’re called to be faithful, not necessarily successful. Jesus did have some hard things to say about rich folks and salvation. We should heed and worry about those warnings for ourselves too, since the average American lives a lifestyle of luxury that most kings of history could never imagine…
The hallmark of Christian evangelization through the centuries is NOT that the rich and powerful convert and carry the peasants along with them, but that the poor discover Christ and rejoice. Over time, the rich cannot sustain themselves without the poor to exploit and things change.
There may not BE a terribly effective way to evangelize rich Hindu immigrants in America. Try anyway. As Mother Theresa said, we’re called to be faithful, not necessarily successful. Jesus did have some hard things to say about rich folks and salvation. We should heed and worry about those warnings for ourselves too, since the average American lives a lifestyle of luxury that most kings of history could never imagine…
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reb108
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Within the context that you mean this, I have to reject your statement because going down this road by either party is a rejection of the principle of love.
As far a the major questions regarding human beings and their constitutional function, I think we both agree that the essential nature that stems from their default setting is: servant of God. The saints in both our religions say this. So for both of us this is our eternal destiny, and we are both right about this because this is our eternal nature. This is the only path of happiness. So I think we both have “the truth concerning our eternal destiny.” I don’t see how you can deny this. As far as the Catholic road to get there vs. the Hare Krsna road to get there, it is not acceptable to tell you that your theology is in error. It is just better to look at the end result that we share. I rejoice in that. Your are correct, there is no other possible conclusion: our eternal destiny is loving devotional service to God. One man takes a helicopter and is set down on top of Mt. Everest. Another man takes nearly a month to climb it. Lord Chaitanya is bestowing a special benediction upon the human race. He is offering us the helicopter ride. This helicopter is His Holy Name. He taught that God’s Holy Name is non-different from His very Self. When embraced, God’s Holy Name is so powerful that it immediately lifts the chanter of His name to the topmost heights of perfection and places one in the midst of his eternal servants.
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reb108
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As far as the other religions you have mentioned, I have never had the calling to study their beliefs. Even so, I don’t have any knee-jerk reaction to offend any of them. Religion means the laws of God and right, what is the value of my opinion? What I do know from the Saints is that both Catholics and Hare Krsnas accept the principle that our eternal, constitutional position (God’s law) is that we are His servants. And right, atheist have certainly rejected God. But like you say, “Truth exists regardless of whether of not we believe it or are even aware of it.”
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reb108
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What I have done with the other issues in which our beliefs conflict with and contradict one another is simple. There is simply no way that one is right and one is wrong. So they both have to be right. I have no problem accepting this. God is inconceivable. We both agree to this. So here, my friend, is this inconceivableness in action.
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Pleroma
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Orthodox Christians will not receive anything from the pneumatic Christ.
"Those who say they will die first and then rise are in error. If they do not first receive the resurrection while they live, when they die they will receive nothing."
-(Gospel of Philip)
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SteveVH
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How in the world does stating my beliefs constitute a rejection of the principal of love? Just for fun, let’s review what I said:
I am sorry that you find that offensive but I will not retract a word of it. It is what I believe.
Sorry, but according to your beliefs your eternal destiny consists of being born and dying, over and over again, until you finally get it right. You are your own savior. According to my beliefs, I will live this life only, and will be resurrected to eternal life and this cannot be accomplished by me. I depend completely on Christ to save me. Why you choose not to acknowledge these differences is beyond me. Rather than exploring our differences, you choose to believe that I have some sinister motive in even asking the questions. I do not.
Why? If you knew the destination that one was seeking and you saw them going the wrong direction would you not tell them? Sorry, but not all roads end up at the same place. That is wishful thinking on the part of those that have no direction.
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SteveVH
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Wonderful. Neither do I. And please show me where I had a knee-jerk reaction that was so offensive. A quote from the post in which you found this would be fine. Thanks.
Actually, that is not entirely accurate. Catholics believe that we will share in the eternal life of the Trinity, not as servants, but rather as sons and daughters of our Father in heaven.
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SteveVH
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“Pneumatic Christ”? May I ask why you are even here?
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reb108
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Please, I do not take any offense. You come across to me as a very nice person who cares very much. But putting that aside for the sake of our discussion, it just seems to me that your position has the potential to run itself out, as it has in history, to violence toward those who don’t accept that the Catholic Church is the only reservoir containing the whole truth. For example, what happened to the monks on Mt. Athos (1275-1282) for rejecting the authority of “The Church.” (orthodoxword.wordpress.com/2011/01/04/the-holy-martyrs-of-mount-athos-january-4th/.) This is just one of many sad examples of what “my way it the only way” kind of thinking can lead to. When you say, “only in Him subsists the fullness of truth…God’s only Word…only the Catholic Church…,” and you cement yourself to that position, aren’t you next going to say, because there is no other possibility, that when others saints outside of Catholicism claim to be speaking the Word of God, that they are liars? Personally, I reject that whole mess. It is not what love is about. I would rather spend my time figuring out how we can both be right.
I have spoken in the past of these two divine waves. Or, call them two different systems. There is certainly a very powerful ministry going on in the Catholic Church that cannot be denied and I find it very sweet and attractive. Like any system, it has its laws, Words, and you have also stated some of their beliefs. Out of love for Christ you accept this system as the only system, as noted above. You feel that it will deliver you to eternal life, accomplished for you by the mercy of Jesus. A Lexus or a Kia will both get you from point A to point B. But you will disagree with this, in spiritual terms. Only Jesus, only my Lexus. Of course this offends all the millions of Kia owners and offending is not loving. I acknowledge the differences but without offending. To me, that our two religions can exists is a great wonder and glory of God. It kind of goes against the rules, but this is what makes religion so cool. St. Joseph of Copertino approaches the altar to say Mass. He notices a statue of Mary and goes into ecstasy before the entire congregation. Then as everyone is watching, his body is magically lifted off the ground, where he remains floating for many many minutes. And this happens to him all the time. Completely against all rules of nature, but it happens. Neither you or I can deny this. I don’t know how it happens, but it does. How did Sor Maria de Jesus guide the Indian population in the 1600s to accept Christ? Spainish records tell us that back then, 60,000 plus American Indians became Catholics in and around the present-day city of San Angelo, Texas. She claims she bilocated to save the Indians around 500 times while cloistered in her convent in Agreda. How is any of this possible. Eyewitness tell us that Lord Chaitanya performed different miracles, just as amazing and wonderful. However we get it right, our eternal destiny is to serve God. Me, my own savior, yeah right.
I guess you are implying that this all fits me since your are mentioning it. Seems that way. The Vedas teach that there is a “place” called the spiritual world. This material world is nothing in comparison. And in this spiritual world there are countless planets. This spiritual world is called Vaikuntha (krishna.com/description-vaikuntha) This is the world of variegatedness without difference. What is generating all the waves that come crashing in on the beach? What is the force pushing them onto the shore? These are all the same in one sense (salt water), but yet different. God is the ultimate force. Nothing can exist without His authority. If a person is honest and takes the time to read both of our religions, He will accept both. My friend Alex is from Columbia. He grew up Catholic. My friend Chit, he grew up Catholic. We were all together with more than a dozen other friends at my house last Christmas expressing our love for Jesus. These friends of mine are great. Chit’s wife was raised Catholics. And any of us can also walk into a Hare Krsna temple anywhere in the world and worship Krsna. We all accept the inconceivableness of God. God preaches according to time and circumstance. So, OK, there can appear to be differences, but keep looking.
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Pleroma
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