How to find a church when I am transsexual

[markomalley]

Circumcision is genital modification, which equals to mutilation. Does that mean everyone who is circumcised and Christian is not going to Heaven? Not going to be saved?.

This means that I will be saved as long as I am a real believer.

Also:

So you wish to say non serviam…I would suggest any of the numerous non-Catholic groups out there for you.

 

[feverforever]

So you wish to say non serviam…I would suggest any of the numerous non-Catholic groups out there for you.

Haha. Well unlucky for you but I believe in the Catholic tradition.

 

[markomalley]

Haha. Well unlucky for you but I believe in the Catholic tradition.

You may believe in the Catholic “tradition”, but your posts indicate that you have major problems with Catholic “doctrine.”

Picking up your cross and following Him does not include having electrolysis done to remove facial and body hair, taking hormones to cause breasts and hips to grow, having your trachea shaved to remove your Adam’s Apple, having your testicles removed, and having your penis surgically inverted to form a faux-vagina.

Picking up your cross and following Him means offering up your suffering in your condition and endeavoring to live according to the teachings of the Church…making frequent use of the Sacrament of Penance when you (as all of us) fall short of that goal.

If the latter is the task you set for yourself, then you have a challenging task and can find support, care, and prayers from the Church…and prayers, in my case (as I can do nothing else for you on this side of the Atlantic).

If the former is the task you set for yourself, as it appears to be, you can expect prayers. But don’t expect affirmation.

(Mind you, if you were “intersexed”, it would be a lot more complicated, I recognize, but you did not identify yourself as “intersexed”)

 

[feverforever]

You may believe in the Catholic “tradition”, but your posts indicate that you have major problems with Catholic “doctrine.”

Picking up your cross and following Him does not include having electrolysis done to remove facial and body hair, taking hormones to cause breasts and hips to grow, having your trachea shaved to remove your Adam’s Apple, having your testicles removed, and having your penis surgically inverted to form a faux-vagina.

Picking up your cross and following Him means offering up your suffering in your condition and endeavoring to live according to the teachings of the Church…making frequent use of the Sacrament of Penance when you (as all of us) fall short of that goal.

If the latter is the task you set for yourself, then you have a challenging task and can find support, care, and prayers from the Church…and prayers, in my case (as I can do nothing else for you on this side of the Atlantic).

If the former is the task you set for yourself, as it appears to be, you can expect prayers. But don’t expect affirmation.

(Mind you, if you were “intersexed”, it would be a lot more complicated, I recognize, but you did not identify yourself as “intersexed”)

At least you are educated in the process of this. I’ve never had electrolysis and don’t need it since I’ve never grown facial hair or much body hair. And I don’t need my trachea shaved because I’ve been in speech therapy for a while and have a female voice. All I really need is a welcoming church and a true church. They don’t have to be a pro-transsexual church, just not care that I am and know that I am there to learn and worship God. If I don’t become who I am on the outside, then I would rather burn in hell for eternity. That’s how much I need to have my surgery (in a year). No one knows how much I have suffered.

I’m not intersexed. I don’t think anyway…

 

[markomalley]

At least you are educated in the process of this. I’ve never had electrolysis and don’t need it since I’ve never grown facial hair or much body hair. And I don’t need my trachea shaved because I’ve been in speech therapy for a while and have a female voice. All I really need is a welcoming church and a true church. They don’t have to be a pro-transsexual church, just not care that I am and know that I am there to learn about God.

I’m not intersexed. I don’t think anyway…

First of all, I have no idea what you are dealing with in regards to “Gender Identity Disorder” – I don’t pretend to comprehend what is going on in your mind, but I can imagine that it is incredibly difficult. The crosses I have to carry are difficult enough, I can’t imagine having that particular one laid on my shoulders.

Having said that, if you want to learn to be able to carry that cross…as a Christian…then I’m sure the Church, somewhere, has the resources to help you do so. In the States, there is the apostolate, Courage. Although primarily aimed toward lesbians and male homosexuals, they do offer some support to transsexuals who wish to deal with their situation. If you get in contact with them at the link above, I would imagine they’d be able to point you to appropriate resources in the UK.

But like I said, don’t get me wrong, I do not in any way support the concept of “gender reassignment surgery” (a/k/a mutilation) as a fix for your situation. If one has already done so, I am sure there is forgiveness…but mutilation of the body is no way to fix what is ultimately a spiritual or psychiatric problem.

 

[feverforever]

First of all, I have no idea what you are dealing with in regards to “Gender Identity Disorder” – I don’t pretend to comprehend what is going on in your mind, but I can imagine that it is incredibly difficult. The crosses I have to carry are difficult enough, I can’t imagine having that particular one laid on my shoulders.

Having said that, if you want to learn to be able to carry that cross…as a Christian…then I’m sure the Church, somewhere, has the resources to help you do so. In the States, there is the apostolate, Courage. Although primarily aimed toward lesbians and male homosexuals, they do offer some support to transsexuals who wish to deal with their situation. If you get in contact with them at the link above, I would imagine they’d be able to point you to appropriate resources in the UK.

But like I said, don’t get me wrong, I do not in any way support the concept of “gender reassignment surgery” (a/k/a mutilation) as a fix for your situation. If one has already done so, I am sure there is forgiveness…but mutilation of the body is no way to fix what is ultimately a spiritual or psychiatric problem.

I will probably confess after having gender reassignment surgery as I would if I had plastic surgery (I wouldn’t confess for a surgery that I need to have to live, though). But I suffer from anxiety as well. Every time I go outside and present as male, my anxiety builds up and I have a panic attack in the middle of the street. Transitioning may not be the only solution for others, but it is for me, personally. I remember looking at every woman in the street and envying them. I would envy these women because they were born female.

Question: what does the bible say about surrogacy? Of course, I will no longer be able to produce children - sadly - so is the bible against surrogates? Is adoption the only alternative? I would love to adopt. But I always said that if I got married, I would have an surrogate mother and my husband would give his sperm, so it wouldn’t be biologically my baby; then I would adopt the rest of my children.

Sorry if I am going off-topic. I just haven’t really talked about this in a religious sense, never mind in a Catholic sense.

 

[markomalley]

I will probably confess after having gender reassignment surgery as I would if I had plastic surgery (I wouldn’t confess for a surgery that I need to have to live, though). But I suffer from anxiety as well. Every time I go outside and present as male, my anxiety builds up and I have a panic attack in the middle of the street. Transitioning may not be the only solution for others, but it is for me, personally. I remember looking at every woman in the street and envying them. I would envy these women because they were born female.

Question: what does the bible say about surrogacy? Of course, I will no longer be able to produce children - sadly - so is the bible against surrogates? Is adoption the only alternative? I would love to adopt. But I always said that if I got married, I would have an surrogate mother and my husband would give his sperm, so it wouldn’t be biologically my baby; then I would adopt the rest of my children.

Sorry if I am going off-topic. I just haven’t really talked about this in a religious sense, never mind in a Catholic sense.

That is very apt, comparing gender reassignment surgery to cosmetic plastic surgery (as opposed to rehabilitative plastic surgery).

Keep in mind that for absolution to be valid, you, the penitent, must have contrition (in other words, you must be sorry for your sins). In other words, if you have already had the breast augmentation and went to confession for it, the absolution would only be valid if you were sorry that you had your breasts augmented. To put it simply, if you had to do it over again, you would not have had the augmentation done.

If you did not have that contrition, any absolution the priest pronounced has no effect:

Can. 987 To receive the salvific remedy of the sacrament of penance, a member of the Christian faithful must be disposed in such a way that, rejecting sins committed and having a purpose of amendment, the person is turned back to God.
If you haven’t rejected the sin, then it doesn’t really matter what the priest says, you haven’t received the effect of the sacrament.

Something to keep in mind.

 

[feverforever]

That is very apt, comparing gender reassignment surgery to cosmetic plastic surgery (as opposed to rehabilitative plastic surgery).

Keep in mind that for absolution to be valid, you, the penitent, must have contrition (in other words, you must be sorry for your sins). In other words, if you have already had the breast augmentation and went to confession for it, the absolution would only be valid if you were sorry that you had your breasts augmented. To put it simply, if you had to do it over again, you would not have had the augmentation done.

If you did not have that contrition, any absolution the priest pronounced has no effect:

Can. 987 To receive the salvific remedy of the sacrament of penance, a member of the Christian faithful must be disposed in such a way that, rejecting sins committed and having a purpose of amendment, the person is turned back to God.
If you haven’t rejected the sin, then it doesn’t really matter what the priest says, you haven’t received the effect of the sacrament.

Something to keep in mind.

Hmm… This is really complex… I guess I wouldn’t be able to confess having GRS… By the way, I have not had any kind of breast augmentation because I don’t really believe in having plastic surgery to “look better”.

 

[Casey123]

She doesn’t need counseling, markomalley. There’s nothing wrong with her. This is who she is, this is how she pursues happiness. Ignorant responses like yours that are downright mean in many ways and are not at all helpful in answering her original question, which is finding a place that will welcome her to worship God with them without fear of prejudice or discrimination.

 

[feverforever]

She doesn’t need counseling, markomalley. There’s nothing wrong with her. This is who she is, this is how she pursues happiness. Ignorant responses like yours that are downright mean in many ways and are not at all helpful in answering her original question, which is finding a place that will welcome her to worship God with them without fear of prejudice or discrimination.

Thank you.

 

[markomalley]

She doesn’t need counseling, markomalley. There’s nothing wrong with her. This is who she is, this is how she pursues happiness. Ignorant responses like yours that are downright mean in many ways and are not at all helpful in answering her original question, which is finding a place that will welcome her to worship God with them without fear of prejudice or discrimination.

So in your mind, concern for the state of his soul and where he spends eternity is “downright mean”?

Wow.

 

[CompSciGuy]

She doesn’t need counseling, markomalley. There’s nothing wrong with her. This is who she is, this is how she pursues happiness. Ignorant responses like yours that are downright mean in many ways and are not at all helpful in answering her original question, which is finding a place that will welcome her to worship God with them without fear of prejudice or discrimination.

In saying these things you are just following the cultural bandwagon and ignoring a potentially serious problem. What if fever’s so-called “gender identity” crisis gets even worse and he ends up doing serious harm to himself? Well gee at least you “loved” him by telling him this is who he is and feeding his gender confusion.

 

[Monkey1976]

She doesn’t need counseling, markomalley. There’s nothing wrong with her. This is who she is, this is how she pursues happiness. Ignorant responses like yours that are downright mean in many ways and are not at all helpful in answering her original question, which is finding a place that will welcome her to worship God with them without fear of prejudice or discrimination.

If I believed with all my heart that I was an ostrich born in a human body, would you support me getting surgery to make my body as ostrich-like as possible, or would you suggest I get therapy to treat my denial of objective reality?

If fever goes through with this surgery, then not only is he committing a sin against nature by mutilating himself to “pursue happiness”, but he is also lying to the world when he presents himself as a woman. God made him a man. God doesn’t make mistakes. By insisting that he is a woman, fever is telling God that He is wrong.

Fever, please, don’t give in the the world whispering in your ear that what you are doing is a good thing. Our Lord told us to take up our cross and follow Him - not chuck our cross into a bag of medical waste and insist that what we have done is good. You said that you have gone through unbearable pain and depression before starting hormones - do you think Our Lord suffered any less as He hung on the Cross? He, as God, had the power to step down and end the suffering whenever He chose, but He chose to suffer and die for you. You have it in your power to either join in His suffering for His sake or to step down from your cross for your own sake. Please, for the love He bears you as the man He made you to be, make the right choice.

 

[feverforever]

If I believed with all my heart that I was an ostrich born in a human body, would you support me getting surgery to make my body as ostrich-like as possible, or would you suggest I get therapy to treat my denial of objective reality?

If fever goes through with this surgery, then not only is he committing a sin against nature by mutilating himself to “pursue happiness”, but he is also lying to the world when he presents himself as a woman. God made him a man. God doesn’t make mistakes. By insisting that he is a woman, fever is telling God that He is wrong.

Fever, please, don’t give in the the world whispering in your ear that what you are doing is a good thing. Our Lord told us to take up our cross and follow Him - not chuck our cross into a bag of medical waste and insist that what we have done is good. You said that you have gone through unbearable pain and depression before starting hormones - do you think Our Lord suffered any less as He hung on the Cross? He, as God, had the power to step down and end the suffering whenever He chose, but He chose to suffer and die for you. You have it in your power to either join in His suffering for His sake or to step down from your cross for your own sake. Please, for the love He bears you as the man He made you to be, make the right choice.

You cannot compare the two things since that is an animal and this is both human.

No. I am not telling God that He is wrong. I’m saying that God did this to be on purpose so that I could learn from it. You can say He didn’t, but whatever

 

[feverforever]

In saying these things you are just following the cultural bandwagon and ignoring a potentially serious problem. What if fever’s so-called “gender identity” crisis gets even worse and he ends up doing serious harm to himself? Well gee at least you “loved” him by telling him this is who he is and feeding his gender confusion.

What serious harm?

 

[RoseMary131]

Gender isn’t sex. It’s different because gender is mental and the birth sex is physical. But i can’t be bothered to talk about that right now.

“Neither surgery nor hormones really change who you are.” - I know that. But that is my DNA. Not my brain. I suffered from severe clinical depression before I even started my hormones. And when I started hormones, my mood just lit up. I was even able to start my spiritual/religious journey again. Now this is important. Transsexual persons are at the highest risk of commiting suicide either because they can’t transition, or becauae of discrimination. I was also suicidal before I started and I self-harmed. I went through literal hell on Earth.

My DNA may be male, buy my brain isn’t. (There have been experiments on transsexual persons brains.)

I am so sorry for the suffering you have endure that caused you to feel suicidal and for the self-harm that you inflicted upon yourself due to your emotional anxiety.

Were you unaccepting of yourself - of exactly who you are - that caused you to harm yourself and want to commit suicide?

Did someone not accept you and caused you so much pain that you turned to self-harm to heal the pain they inflicted upon you? I am so sorry you lived such pain.

If you surgically and hormonally change the physical appearance of your outward body - you are still exactly who you are - Fever.

Your cells that contain the genetic make-up of you - the genetic make up of Fever - will still be the same. Your brain - will still be the same - the brain and brain function of Fever. Your mind will still be the same - the mind of Fever.

When you look in the mirror you are exactly who you are - Fever. Please do not be unaccepting of you - of you and the physical body that you see. Your body is wonderfully made. Your organ your brain is part of the physical make up of your physical body.

Your body (including the organ - your brain), your entire body is wonderfully made. Your mind is wonderfully made, as is your soul. You - the total of Fever - is wonderfully made.

You can surgically or hormonally change your physical body to resemble a body that you long to have. You could loose that newly altered female appearing body through tragedy - you would still be exactly who you are - Fever.

You could develop breast cancer, as it is not a cancer that can only mutate the cells of female breasts - males can also suffer from breast cancer. You could suffer trauma that left you without the physical appearance of the female genitals surgically created for you - you would still be forever Fever.

God blesses each of us with our entire physical body. Sometimes people long for the body of someone else - their shape, their figure, their breast shape or size, their genital appearance, the appearance - shape - of their eyes, their nose shape… even if they change those things - they are truly exactly who they are before the change.

Sometimes the altering helps a person feel more confidence - but confidence may have to deal with how they feel about themselves, about expressing themselves, about being fearful that someone would not accept them, so in turn did not accept themselves.

Please accept your body - your entire body - left side and right side - front and back - top to bottom, inside and outside. You are wonderfully made - body, mind, and soul.

 

[feverforever]

I am so sorry for the suffering you have endure that caused you to feel suicidal and for the self-harm that you inflicted upon yourself due to your emotional anxiety.

Were you unaccepting of yourself - of exactly who you are - that caused you to harm yourself and want to commit suicide?

Did someone not accept you and caused you so much pain that you turned to self-harm to heal the pain they inflicted upon you? I am so sorry you lived such pain.

If you surgically and hormonally change the physical appearance of your outward body - you are still exactly who you are - Fever.

Your cells that contain the genetic make-up of you - the genetic make up of Fever - will still be the same. Your brain - will still be the same - the brain and brain function of Fever. Your mind will still be the same - the mind of Fever.

When you look in the mirror you are exactly who you are - Fever. Please do not be unaccepting of you - of you and the physical body that you see. Your body is wonderfully made. Your organ your brain is part of the physical make up of your physical body.

Your body (including the organ - your brain), your entire body is wonderfully made. Your mind is wonderfully made, as is your soul. You - the total of Fever - is wonderfully made.

You can surgically or hormonally change your physical body to resemble a body that you long to have. You could loose that newly altered female appearing body through tragedy - you would still be exactly who you are - Fever.

You could develop breast cancer, as it is not a cancer that can only mutate the cells of female breasts - males can also suffer from breast cancer. You could suffer trauma that left you without the physical appearance of the female genitals surgically created for you - you would still be forever Fever.

God blesses each of us with our entire physical body. Sometimes people long for the body of someone else - their shape, their figure, their breast shape or size, their genital appearance, the appearance - shape - of their eyes, their nose shape… even if they change those things - they are truly exactly who they are before the change.

Sometimes the altering helps a person feel more confidence - but confidence may have to deal with how they feel about themselves, about expressing themselves, about being fearful that someone would not accept them, so in turn did not accept themselves.

Please accept your body - your entire body - left side and right side - front and back - top to bottom, inside and outside. You are wonderfully made - body, mind, and soul.

Actually, no. I self-harmed and was suicidal because I couldn’t transition and was scared to come out. It was also due to other things (unrequited love and people).

I do accept my male body, but it’s not me. It doesn’t match my mind. My body and brain may be of a man. But my mind and soul is not. Mind and soul are not physical, therefore they can be the opposite gender.

But, thank you.

 

[RoseMary131]

Question: what does the bible say about surrogacy? Of course, I will no longer be able to produce children - sadly - so is the bible against surrogates? Is adoption the only alternative? I would love to adopt. But I always said that if I got married, I would have an surrogate mother and my husband would give his sperm, so it wouldn’t be biologically my baby; then I would adopt the rest of my children.

Sorry if I am going off-topic. I just haven’t really talked about this in a religious sense, never mind in a Catholic sense.

The teaching of the Catholic Church is that children should be conceived through the physical unitive act of marital love - through sexual relations of a married couple.

Sexual relations belongs only within marriage. Of course, there are children born out of wedlock. Those children are wonderfully made and loved by God. Those parents are wonderfully made and loved by God. However, the act of sexual union outside of marriage is a sexual sin.

Artificial insemination is considered wrong as it removes the unitive aspect of the conception.

For a father to conceive a child through physical sexual relations with a woman who is not his wife is a sinful act.

For a father to conceive a child through artificially combining of the egg and sperm either through artificial insemination or in vitro fertilization - removes the unitive part of sexual love from the conception and is considered sinful.

These are very deep spiritual questions that seem to have a simple solution offered through the world of secular medicine. Understanding the fullness of Truth on the subject of conception is much bigger than my simple answer.

Your gift of conceiving children is a beautiful gift and blessing from God - given from Him to you through the beautiful gift of your physical body. You express a sadness that you will no longer be able to produce children after being surgically altered.

God is calling you to His Church, the Catholic Church. Pray for grace to be open to finding out what the Church teaches and why.

God may actually be placing in your heart the desire to be open to life - open to life created between God, you, and your future spouse.

 

[jmcrae]

I will probably confess after having gender reassignment surgery as I would if I had plastic surgery (I wouldn’t confess for a surgery that I need to have to live, though). But I suffer from anxiety as well. Every time I go outside and present as male, my anxiety builds up and I have a panic attack in the middle of the street. Transitioning may not be the only solution for others, but it is for me, personally. I remember looking at every woman in the street and envying them. I would envy these women because they were born female.

Question: what does the bible say about surrogacy? Of course, I will no longer be able to produce children - sadly - so is the bible against surrogates? Is adoption the only alternative? I would love to adopt. But I always said that if I got married, I would have an surrogate mother and my husband would give his sperm, so it wouldn’t be biologically my baby; then I would adopt the rest of my children.

Sorry if I am going off-topic. I just haven’t really talked about this in a religious sense, never mind in a Catholic sense.

Under Catholic law, you would not be allowed to adopt children or to get married, if you were to mutilate yourself, or if you were to pass yourself off as a woman. Surrogacy is a form of slavery, and for that reason it is forbidden in the Catholic Church.

 

[Casey123]

So in your mind, concern for the state of his soul and where he spends eternity is “downright mean”?

Wow.

Oh, please.