How to forgive Pope Francis

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misstherese said:
It is more of a theological issue. I have seen so many confusing statements of things he’s said that I just don’t know what his take is. I most definitely do not agree with those who bash him and call him antipope
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Right. The vast majority of people scrutinize his objective words and actions and not his motives or character. If the Pope puts forward ideas that are theologically questionable, as this Pope has done on several occasions in both “off the cuff” remarks and in more weighty Apostolic letters and acts, of course the faithful will become alarmed.
 
All I did was present Pope Francis’ own words. People are free to read them and decide for themselves what they think.
 
And as Pope Francis himself said last week, divorced and remarried Catholics should not think that the Sacraments are open to them to receive freely. They must go through the process of coming back into the Church.

However, pastoral care must be given in those rare cases were obtaining an annulment would be impossible. The couple desires to be in full union with the Church, but their circumstance prevents them from obtaining an annulment and the local Bishop must decide on whether they should be allowed to come into full union with the Church.

Jim
 
Look for the original in Italian. A homily. Very quick and easy to spot at first glance. Five minutes? And check " peccato" and " peccatore".
Problem solved.
Do not swallow everything people say without the basics: refer to the originals in context.
Problems solved.
Now sleep soundly and well or enjoy the rest of the day. I will do that,for the sake of all the well intentioned people in CAF. And there are many!
 
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misstherese said:
(except maybe the breeding like rabbits thing because I have 8 siblings who are all wonderful as well as loving and responsible parents).
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Did you see the quote in context? I posted it earlier.
misstherese said:
Statements that he’s made such as the one where he mocked priests…
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The word “mocking” is probably not in line with CCC 2478, giving a “favorable intepretation”. Do you have the quote in context? Then we can try to discover what he was intending with his statement.

I’m not putting you down for this misstherese, all of us feel hurt sometimes.
 
R_H_Benson said:
All I did was present Pope Francis’ own words. People are free to read them and decide for themselves what they think.
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Do you hold anything against Pope Francis? That is what this thread is about, forgiveness, forgiving those we hold something against.
 
Rhubarb said:
I can’t imagine anyone who reads what Pope Francis has said or taught without the lens of their politics could find what he says bad or wrong.
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Teek said:
“But God does not exist: Do not be shocked! So God does not exist! There is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, they are persons, they are not some vague idea in the clouds … This God spray does not exist! The three persons exist!”
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I object to that. No political lens. No agenda.

Only faith. Strong Catholic faith.

Three persons—one God.
 
So you really just above argued against the need for the Sacrament of Confession. I’ll let you look at that for a while.

“The Father doesn’t hold a grudge.” You misunderstand what happens at Confession, terribly.

You’re thinking in mere human pop psychology terms.

It’s not about grudges…it’s about “growth”…growth toward ever closer communion (union).

When God respects our free will and dignity…He lets us come to a conclusion that we need to reconcile (note interior reconciliation of the intellect and the will and the body!!) …to improve matters, to return through the narrow gate.

When He lets us do this…He knows that this sort of examination and “facing the music” is actually GREAT good for us…we grow through the need to formally Confess our sins and return to the sheepfold.

I am likely wasting keystrokes, but there will be some others who get it.
 
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It’s a shame, but even Christ lost 5000 disciples for insisting on truth.
 
Can you cite that for me, from Scripture? I mean if we want to stay close to truth.
 
Edward_H said:
Can you cite that for me, from Scripture? I mean if we want to stay close to truth.
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Not sure if you are referring to someone else, but if it’s referring to my statement… it’s may not be 5000. It could be 5000 male, plus other people. It’s John 6 (chapter on eucharist), but focus on John 6:66: " After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him. " (RSVCE) “After this, many of his disciples went back to their old ways, and walked no more in his company.” (Knox) In fact, it implicitly that only the twelve remained.
 
I have read more about his statement of parents being like rabbits, and I still have the same thoughts. I have wondered if he would consider my parents irresponsible because we were very poor.

During his homily at Domus Sanctae Martae:

“About rigidity and worldliness, it was some time ago that an elderly monsignor of the curia came to me, who works, a normal man, a good man, in love with Jesus – and he told me that he had gone to buy a couple of shirts at Euroclero [the clerical clothing store] and saw a young fellow — he thinks he had not more than 25 years, or a young priest or about to become a priest — before the mirror, with a cape, large, wide, velvet, with a silver chain. He then took the Saturno [wide-brimmed clerical headgear], he put it on and looked himself over. A rigid and worldly one. And that priest – he is wise, that monsignor, very wise — was able to overcome the pain, with a line of healthy humor and added: ‘And it is said that the Church does not allow women priests!’ Thus, does the work that the priest does when he becomes a functionary ends in the ridiculous, always.“

I have given him the benefit of the doubt many times and this one seems a lot more clearer to me. It is not a second hand account or taken out of context.

Now that I think of it more, I do have personal feelings and feel that I have been offended. These statements have left me confused and saddened at why God is letting the Church become this way. Bishops opposing bishops and confusion from high places is indeed accurate. I am saddened that I am often dismissed when I bring up these concerns I have on here, ignored or condescendingly told that I am incorrect and that I should read more, as though I am lacking in understanding of Church affairs. But I’m not. I often read about these things from various sources so that I’m not just getting the words out of context or misinterpreting it.
 
Spyridon said:
Kinda amusing to see them say in the same breath “I love the Pope”, and then “but see how heretical he is! Look at these god awful things he says! JMJ he’s such a burden on us!”
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How does that reply to the concerns people are posting? You are an intelligent, faithful Catholic. Why not give reasons rather than accusations. You could help people accept the Pope’s teachings. You are certain that there are no concerns. Help the rest of us get there with reason.
 
Many = 5000? Don’t think so. Thanks though. Want to stay closer to the truth.
 
I like how His Holiness used several times earlier in the year…in public…a word I had to look up…which stood for people who get off sexually with feces etc,

I couldn’t believe a pope would be compelled to ever utter such coarseness once let alone multiple times.
 
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Edward_H said:
Many = 5000? Don’t think so. Thanks though. Want to stay closer to the truth.
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The 5000 comes from John 6:10:
“Then Jesus said: Make the men sit down. Now there was much grass in the place. The men therefore sat down, in number about five thousand.” (DRC)
“Jesus said, “Make the people sit down.” Now there was a great deal of grass in the place; so theysat down, about five thousand in all” (NRSVCE)

The John 6:22 refer top the crowd, imply to be the same 5000 / 5000 men + others:
"The next day the crowd that had stayed on the other side of the sea saw that there had been only one boat there. " (NRSVCE)
“The next day, the multitude that stood on the other side of the sea, saw that there was no other ship there but one,” (DRC)

Like many catholic theology, you can’t just read a line here and there. The entire narrative, at least the entire chapter, must be read. If you need a link to a John 6, this is a good one: Vulgate - Douay-Rheims - Knox Bible side by side
Have Knox bible, which is a good translation, in addition to DRC and Vulgate. And the John 6 narrative for eucharist is standard Catholic argument for Eucharist since Trent.

If you insist on us quoting the John 6 for you, I will do it, even though you are clearly in front of a computer yourself.
 
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The answer is actually simple. We forgive someone by doing it. The object does not change the method. If this is hard, then time meditating one’s own sinfulness might help.
 
There’s not really an issue with supporting the Donald.

The problem, as I noted, is when they support the Donald without reservation while simultaneously holding the Pope in near constant contempt.

If a Catholic is consistently agreeing with a man like Donald Trump who is about as far from a holy man as humanly possible, yet consistently disagreeing with a Pontiff as saintly and pius as Pope Francis, then there is something VERY seriously wrong with the way that person is viewing things.

I’d also argue the opposite, meaning if someone was finding themselves constantly in agreement with President Obama yet in constant conflict with Pope Benedict, I would say there’s something very seriously wrong with that situation as well.
 
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