How to get to heaven

[moondweller]

There are very clear Scriptures which speak of the final judgment separating those bound to inherit the kingdom( Heaven) from those bound for Hell by the good deeds they did in faith:

Matt 25:34-36 Then the King will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger **and you **welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’

Your problem, Phil, is that this Matthew passage isn’t even talking about heaven. It’s an earthly scene. The prophecy speaks of the time when the King returns to this earth, ascends His father David’s throne, gathers before Him the Gentile nations living on the earth at that time, and SEPARATES His sheep (believers) from the goats (unbelievers). They’re separated according to their IDENTITY, and by their identity they either enter the Kingdom (Christ’s earthly, millennial kingdom - as mortals), or they are cast off to await the final judgment of the “dead” (Rev. 20:7-15).

Presently (having made purification of sin on the cross) Christ is sharing His heavenly Father’s throne in heaven, functioning there as the believer’s High Priest (Heb. 1:3; 7:25). But He still awaits the time when He will sit down on His father David’s throne on earth and reign over this same earth which once rejected Him (Lk. 1:32-33; Rev. 3:21; cf. Zech. 14).

But of believers, during this church age, the Scriptures reveal that upon death we (true believers) go directly Home to be with the Lord who is presently in heaven (2 Cor. 5:6-9). In fact it is said of us that our citizenship is in heaven from where we await a Savior to return for us and transform our humble bodies into conformity with His own glorified body (Phil. 3:20-21, NASB). This will take place at the rapture of His church (1 Thess. 4:15-18).

So, according to the Scriptures, believers who have died in Christ (being “absent from the body”) enter immediately into the presence of Christ in heaven. But in the yet future we who make up His church, which He has been building since Pentecost, will enter heaven with glorified bodies. IOW, the only way we will enter heaven, bodily, is via the future rapture of His church.

Your Matt. 25:31ff passage has nothing to do with this. That event does not occur until after Christ returns to this earth at the end of the age (and His glorified church/bride with Him).

 

[Philthy]

Your problem, Phil, is that this Matthew passage isn’t even talking about heaven. It’s an earthly scene.

How does the fact that it is an earthly scene preclude the fact that it is a discussion of Heaven?? It doesnt…

The prophecy speaks of the time when the King returns to this earth, ascends His father David’s throne, gathers before Him the Gentile nations living on the earth at that time, and SEPARATES His sheep (believers) from the goats (unbelievers).

There you go again, attempting to insert YOUR THEOLOGY into the text. You simply have to insert that where the word of God does not. What Scripture reveals is that those who are sheeps are designated as such ACCORDING TO THE WORKS and those who are designated as goats are done so on the basis of failing to do those very same works. There is nothing in the entire chapter about “believers” vs “unbelievers”. It couldnt be any clearer, but you always need to INSERT your theology into the text. There is no discussion about belief or unbelief except in your mind.Their identity is linked not merely to their belief, but with their works done by grace through faith in love.

They’re separated according to their IDENTITY, and by their identity they either enter the Kingdom (Christ’s earthly, millennial kingdom - as mortals), or they are cast off to await the final judgment of the “dead” (Rev. 20:7-15).

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
That sure seems like heaven
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
And this sure seems like Hell…

Your Matt. 25:31ff passage has nothing to do with this. That event does not occur until after Christ returns to this earth at the end of the age (and His glorified church/bride with Him).

Should I provide a little context from the same chapter to gauge your comments by?
Matt 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto
Matt 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is] as a man travelling
The two parables that precede the parable of the sheep and goats, and they are about…Heaven.
And here is the final verse of the chapter following the parable of the sheeps and goats:
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Everlasting punishment is where those who did not love the Lord by loving their neighbor go to - do you really think there is any question where the place of everlasting punishment is? I dont, its Hell. And conversely, do you really think there is any question about where the righteous go to life eternal is? I dont, its Heaven.

 

[ryanoneil]

Your knowledge is correct. “Initial” justification is found nowhere in Scripture. That’s strictly a Catholic invention.What it comes down to is belief vs. unbelief in God’s Word.Eph 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

Rom 3:22-24 “…even {the} righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;“It’s LAW that came first. The purpose of the Law, according to the Scriptures was to:”…become our tutor {to lead us} to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith” (Gal. 3:24).The word “initial” is never inserted and both salvation and justification (the latter being a part of the former) are revealed to be Divine gifts based on faith alone.

What it comes down to is belief or unbelief. Unbelief inserts the word “initial” and then hopes in works.

It’s FAITH that came first.

Indeed, if Abraham was justified on the basis of his works, he has reason to boast; but this was not so in the sight of God. For what does the scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” (Rom 4:2-3)

Abraham was righteous by faith long before we was circumcised with the flint knife and 430 years before the law came. Faith is the foundation. Even though he was justified in Genesis 15 God still required him to sacrifice his son, which justified him in Genesis 22.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works. Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called “the friend of God.” See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:21-24)

Paul uses the same word for justification in Rom. 4:3 as James 2:24 does. Initial justification is staring you right in the face but you refuse to recognize it because the actual word is not used. And Paul refers to the righteousness that comes from obedience after initial justification.

**Do you not know that if you present yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? (Rom 6:16)

For it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified. (Rom 2:13)**

I don’t disagree with you about belief and unbelief, but you need to realize that the opposite of belief is not just unbelief, but disobedience. Faith is exercised when we trust in God and entrust ourselves to God. It is not an intellectual thing that exists independantly of our behavior. Faith and faithfulness are two sides of the same coin.

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him. (John 3:36)

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it? So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead. Indeed someone might say, “You have faith and I have works.” Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works. You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble. Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless? (James 2:14-20)

And then Abraham is mentioned again.

 

[ryanoneil]

Presently (having made purification of sin on the cross) Christ is sharing His heavenly Father’s throne in heaven, functioning there as the believer’s High Priest (Heb. 1:3; 7:25). But He still awaits the time when He will sit down on His father David’s throne on earth and reign over this same earth which once rejected Him (Lk. 1:32-33; Rev. 3:21; cf. Zech. 14).

You are making a false distinction. Jesus is not a king without a throne. The throne of David in heaven at the right hand of God.

**But since he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants upon his throne, he foresaw and spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that neither was he abandoned to the netherworld nor did his flesh see corruption. (Acts 2:30-32)

A psalm of David. The LORD says to you, my lord: “Take your throne at my righthand, while I make your enemies your footstool.” (Ps 110:1)**

This enthronement is the fulfillment of Yahwheh’s covenant of everlasting kingship sworn to David. Jesus is already Lord and King of Israel.

**God raised this Jesus; of this we are all witnesses. Exalted at the right hand of God, he received the promise of the holy Spirit from the Father and poured it forth, as you (both) see and hear. For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said: ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.”’ Therefore let the whole house of Israel know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Messiah, this Jesus whom you crucified." (Acts 2:32-36)

He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end." (Luke 1:32-33)**

Christ assumed his throne and rule at his Ascension, and from that time his reign continues until all creation bows in homage and death falls in defeat.

Jesus answered, “My kingdom does not belong to this world. If my kingdom did belong to this world, my attendants (would) be fighting to keep me from being handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my kingdom is not here.” (John 18:36)

For just as in Adam all die, so too in Christ shall all be brought to life, but each one in proper order: Christ the firstfruits; then, at his coming, those who belong to Christ; then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has destroyed every sovereignty and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (1 Cor 15:22-25)

 

[latin_rite]

And have you done this Ryan? Have you, like this man said he’d done, observed all the Commandments from your youth? And then have you sold what you have and given all the money to the poor? And now, in poverty, have you been following Christ?

I know i have tried. I have fallen many times But have got back up and tried again. And when my judgement comes. And God doesn’t like what he sees in my heart, i hope he looks at the spiritual scars on my knees, and acknowledges at that at least i tried.