How To Get To Heaven

[xfrodobagginsx]

With the exception of the King James Version, nearly every Bible translation translates this verse (1 Cor 6:11) in the past tense, i.e. “were washed…were sanctified…were justified”

I don’t think this verse is proof of the forgiveness of future sins.

Please read Hebrews 10:26-31 regarding the fate of someone who persists in sin after having received knowledge of the truth and having been sanctified.

It says if we sin willfully after recieving the KNOWLEDGE of the truth. The person was never saved in the first place. They had knowledge, but didn’t let Jesus Christ in their heart. Second, it says nothing about being sancified in that verse. Only believers are sanctified.

 

[EHRAM]

It says if we sin willfully after recieving the KNOWLEDGE of the truth. The person was never saved in the first place. They had knowledge, but didn’t let Jesus Christ in their heart. Second, it says nothing about being sanctified in that verse. Only believers are sanctified.

Read Hebrews 10:29 again. It says that the person was “sanctified” (NIV, RSV, KJV) or “consecrated” (NAB) by the blood of the [new] covenant.

 

[savedsinner]

1Co 6:9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Look what it says here:

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified,** but ye are justified **in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

When the Lord saves us, He cleanses us from all of our sins, past, present and future.

How do you walk worthy of something? By living a Godly life. We can walk unworthy of our calling but we still saved.

Eph 4:1 ¶ I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, {of the Lord: or, in the Lord}

Col 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

1Th 2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.

Paul is writing to baptized “saved” Christians in his letter to the Corinthians, and he is warning them that they need to keep from returning to the sins which they lived for before becoming Chrisitans.

You can’t just ignore the passages which go against your view of salvation.
We are saved by faith in Jesus, and then you must live a life of love.
Jesus said the greatest commandment is to Love God with all your heart mind and soul, and the second greatest is to love your neighbor.
If you don’t love your neighbor then you don’t love God. St. John wrote that very clearly in his epistle.
When we as baptized believing Christians live our faith with love, and we commit mortal sin, yes we turn our backs on God. But God is faithful to his promise of salvation, and if we turn from sin and repent, he will forgive us, and we will again live with his supernatural grace in our souls. But if we sin, and we don’t repent and turn our backs to God, that is reject God for sin, then we also turn our backs on his promise of salvation.

Frodo, when you say that Jesus has forgiven our sins past, present and future, you are correct, but we have to repent of these sins and ask for forgiveness.
In the Old Testament covenant, when the Jews would sin, they would have to make a sin offering each and every time they would sin.
But with Jesus and his new covenant, Jesus died once and for all for all of our sins.
That doesn’t mean that we are free to sin, and it doesn’t mean that Jesus has to be recrucified each time we sin.
He died once and for all.
What we need to do is to repent and ask for forgiveness, and our sins are forgiven.
We have to really be sorry of our sins, we just can’t sin, and then ask for forgiveness, not really meaning it and just doing it so we can have our bases covered.
You know like to Party hardy Friday night, and go to confession on Saturday, all the while you are planning on doing it again next weekend, it doesn’t work like that.

You are very close to the truth here, but you seem to go beyond what Scripture is telling us when you say that once we are saved, nothing can take that away, nothing we do in sin can affect our salavation.
If those sins go unrepented, yes they can affect our salvation.
But if we repent, the promise of our salvation is still there for us.

Nothing we can do can affect the promise of salvation. The key word here is promise.

 

[Church_Militant]

1Co 6:9 Look what it says here: And such were some of you

: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified,** but ye are justified **in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

When the Lord saves us, He cleanses us from all of our sins, past, **present and future.**Really? Certainly the sacrifice for all sin has been paid on the cross, but if it was applied as you assert then why would Our Lord have said the following? (John 20) “21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.” and then…(1st John 1) “9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all iniquity.”

and then again and very clear and important, (James 5) “14 Is any man sick among you? Let him bring in the priests of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick man: and the Lord shall raise him up: and if he be in sins, they shall be forgiven him.16 Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much.”

Obviously, the New Testament does not teach the application of Christ’s sacrifice for sins the way you present it. Yours is a fallible interpretation of modern men and not a literal interpretation of what the Word of God actually teaches. Even confession in the OT was done orally. (Leviticus 5:5)

How do you walk worthy of something? By living a Godly life. We can walk unworthy of our calling but we still saved.

We can? (1st John 1) “6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.” I’d say that St. John disagrees with you.

Eph 4:1, Col 1:10, 1Th 2:12

Why leave out the other passages of the Word of God that speak of the things that don’t agree with your modern denominational theology? When I was a Baptist, we were taught that we believed all the Bible.

It says if we sin willfully after recieving the KNOWLEDGE of the truth. The person was never saved in the first place. They had knowledge, but didn’t let Jesus Christ in their heart. Second, it says nothing about being sancified in that verse. Only believers are sanctified.

The only position you can take if you hold to the error of OSAS/Eternal Security…

 

[Philthy]

1Co 6:9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Look what it says here:

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified,** but ye are justified **in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

When the Lord saves us, He cleanses us from all of our sins, past, present and future.

And what, exactly, is your point frodo? Are you saying that Paul is saying that it’s OK for Christians to engage in the very same activities which prevent others from inheriting the kingdom of God? That is a ridiculous contention, of course, but that appears to be what you are saying.
Now one could equally conclude that anyone who engages in those behaviors is not saved - even if they once were. In fact that makes a lot more sense when you read the full context of the verse and especially when you consider other times where Paul warns of inappropriate behavior which can make a “shipwreck” of ones faith. But you, of course, are incapable of realizing such a point because you have married yourself to OSAS and once you do that, then it is impossible for you to understand Paul to say that a Christian will not not inherit the Kingdom of God if they reject God’s grace through unrepentant sin. Even if our Lord were to say something like, “If you dont forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father in Heaven forgive you yours” you still wouldnt believe that our salvation has conditions attached to it.

 

[Odell]

Read Hebrews 10:29 again. It says that the person was “sanctified” (NIV, RSV, KJV) or “consecrated” (NAB) by the blood of the [new] covenant.

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

We can? (1st John 1) “6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.” I’d say that St. John disagrees with you.Why leave out the other passages of the Word of God that speak of the things that don’t agree with your modern denominational theology? When I was a Baptist, we were taught that we believed all the Bible. The only position you can take if you hold to the error of OSAS/Eternal Security…

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Of course I am not saying to sin, I am saying that we aren’t going to lose our salvation if we sin. I know for a fact that everyone on this site sins every day of their lives, including myself.

Written to believers:

1Jo 1:8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

What does this verse mean to you?

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

 

[Church_Militant]

Of course I am not saying to sin, I am saying that we aren’t going to lose our salvation if we sin.

I know for a fact that everyone on this site sins every day of their lives, including myself.

Written to believers:

1Jo 1:8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

What does this verse mean to you?

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?It means what it says.

Please show us your definition of “sin”: Isn’t it a turning away from God by disobedience? Is that an accurate statement?

 

[savedsinner]

What does this verse mean to you?

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Well, to me, when Romans 6:1 is placed in context with Romans 6:1-11, it is talking baptism and the affect baptism has on us.
Through baptism God’s grace reaches each of us and frees us from the control of sin. When we receive this sacrament we die; that is to say, our blame-worthiness is destroyed, we renounce sin once and for all, and are born again into a new life.

Romans 6:1-11

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin. For he who has died is freed from sin. But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. The death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

 

[Gamera]

What does this verse mean to you?

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Exactly what it says: that we should not continue to sin. We should stop living in sin and be dead to sin.

 

[Philthy]

Of course I am not saying to sin, I am saying that we aren’t going to lose our salvation if we sin.

Frodo, I dont know how to break this to you, but Paul says otherwise. He says that liars, drunkards, thieves, etc WILL NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD. He does NOT say that UNSAVED liars, drunkards, thieves, etc will not enter the kingdom. Deal with it. You may wish to argue that a saved person will not commit any of these sins in order to uphold your precious OSAS, but your next statement shows that you cant possibly beleive that.

I know for a fact that everyone on this site sins every day of their lives, including myself.

Ah, but now you are lumping ALL sin into the category of sin which excludes one from the kingdom of heaven, which is an error on your part. “All wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly” (1John 5). Furthermore we have the sacrament of repentance to restore the gift of life within us when we fail to respond faithfully under pressure from the world.
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; John 20:23
Of course we all sin, frodo. We, however, dont delude ourselves into believing that sinning is inconsequential with respect to our eternal destiny. Doesnt your spirit groan when you sin? I mean c’mon - this is like spiritual breast milk. God and sin dont mix.

 

[Gamera]

frodobaggins, do you think we need to believe in “Once Saved, Always Saved” in order to go to heaven? You say that all we need is to accept Jesus as savior (something which Catholics do every time we receive the Eucharist) but you seem awfully intent on persuading us to accept your beliefs regarding OSAS too. So, is accepting Jesus enough? Or must we also agree with OSAS? About two dozen New Testament verses tell me with ringing clarity that we can lose God’s grace by sinning, so if I accept Jesus as savior but reject your interpretation of those Bible passages, will I go to hell? If not, then why should you care whether I accept or reject OSAS, since I’ll go to heaven anyway?

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Frodo, I dont know how to break this to you, but Paul says otherwise. He says that liars, drunkards, thieves, etc WILL NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD. He does NOT say that UNSAVED liars, drunkards, thieves, etc will not enter the kingdom. Deal with it. You may wish to argue that a saved person will not commit any of these sins in order to uphold your precious OSAS, but your next statement shows that you cant possibly beleive that.

Ah, but now you are lumping ALL sin into the category of sin which excludes one from the kingdom of heaven, which is an error on your part. “All wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly” (1John 5). Furthermore we have the sacrament of repentance to restore the gift of life within us when we fail to respond faithfully under pressure from the world.
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; John 20:23

All sin leads to death…

Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Which sins are not included here?

Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Ro 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

All sin leads to death. We need Jesus Christs blood to cover our sins. All my sins are covered, past, present and future sins as well. Our life is in Jesus Christ.

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

We are perfected forever by one sacrifice. It says them that ARE sanctified, not might be or could be.

He died once for ALL of our sins:

Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

So how do we get free of the law of sin and death? Through accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and recieving His Holy Spirit:

Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The only true sin unto death is rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

 

[Mannyfit75]

The only true sin unto death is rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

No one is rejecting Jesus Christ. In fact, many of us Catholic just recieved the Lord’s Body and Blood this pass Sunday…

This is fullfilling I think in Christ own words:

For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. 57 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. 58 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. -John 6:56-58.

The Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ gets very personal with us Catholics in Holy Communion. We love Jesus and we indeed received him.

 

[Gamera]

All sin leads to death…

Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Which sins are not included here?

Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Ro 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

All sin leads to death. We need Jesus Christs blood to cover our sins. All my sins are covered, past, present and future sins as well. Our life is in Jesus Christ.

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

We are perfected forever by one sacrifice. It says them that ARE sanctified, not might be or could be.

He died once for ALL of our sins:

Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

So how do we get free of the law of sin and death? Through accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and recieving His Holy Spirit:

Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The only true sin unto death is rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

Yes, sin leads to death – meaning sin, our being in a state of sin rather than a state of grace. Not each miniscule little venial sin. Your notion that all sins are mortal sins contradicts God’s word. “All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not deadly.” 1 John 5:19.

 

[Odell]

What does this verse mean to you?

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

I like how you keep asking the same question but yet you choose not to respond to our responses

so Ill ask what others have posted. What do these verses mean to you?

EHRAM said this in response to you saying those in Heb Ch 10 are not sanctified they were never saved. Your exact words right?

So again what does verse 29 mean to you.

I have a fealing you will skip this again.

I will ask as many times as needed though.

Read Hebrews 10:29 again. It says that the person was “sanctified” (NIV, RSV, KJV) or “consecrated” (NAB) by the blood of the [new] covenant.

You also said.

xfrodobagginsx How do you walk worthy of something? By living a Godly life. We can walk unworthy of our calling but we still saved.

But yet another unanswered response that Church Militant gave you

We can? (1st John 1) “6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.” I’d say that St. John disagrees with you.Why leave out the other passages of the Word of God that speak of the things that don’t agree with your modern denominational theology? When I was a Baptist, we were taught that we believed all the Bible. The only position you can take if you hold to the error of OSAS/Eternal Security…

You have a habit of skipping peoples questions that you find hard answering

Kind of like the habit you got avoiding scripture that contradicts your theology.

How about answering these quesitons for us if you can:shrug:

 

[Church_Militant]

All sin leads to death…

Jas 1:15

Ro 6:23
Which sins are not included here?

Ro 5:12

Ro 7:13

All sin leads to death.

We need Jesus Christs blood to cover our sins. All my sins are covered, past, present and future sins as well. Our life is in Jesus Christ.Catholics will never disagree that all sin leads to death.

Heb 10:14

We are perfected forever by one sacrifice. It says them that ARE sanctified, not might be or could be.

He died once for ALL of our sins:

So…your interpretation of this verse is that we are already perfect? I think St. Paul would disagree.

Heb 9:26

So how do we get free of the law of sin and death? Through accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and recieving His Holy Spirit:

Can you show me a passage in the Word of God that specifically says that? Having read it all the way through several times over (all 73 books of it) I can assure you that it is not there.:bible1:

Ro 8:2
**
The only true sin unto death is rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior**

.“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death.”

That is not in that verse and in fact, your statement is not accurate according to the Word of God. It would be better stated that “The ultimate sin unto death is rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior”, but even that is not scripturally accurate.

1st John 5:16 He that knoweth his brother to sin a sin which is not to death, let him ask, and life shall be given to him, who sinneth not to death. There is a sin unto death: for that I say not that any man ask. 17 All iniquity is sin. And there is a sin unto death.

So then it appears that your teaching concerning sin is not biblically accurate.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

We can? (1st John 1) “6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.” I’d say that St. John disagrees with you.Why leave out the other passages of the Word of God that speak of the things that don’t agree with your modern denominational theology? When I was a Baptist, we were taught that we believed all the Bible. The only position you can take if you hold to the error of OSAS/Eternal Security…
:QUOTE]

Easy. Not all believers are in fellowship with God. When you have unconfessed sin in your life, you are out of fellowship with God, yet still his child and saved in every way. If we say we have fellowship with Him and are walking in darkness (sin) we are a liar. That doesn’t mean that we aren’t saved. OSAS is the truth. You are under bondage of false doctrine.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Catholics will never disagree that all sin leads to death. So…your interpretation of this verse is that we are already perfect? I think St. Paul would disagree.Can you show me a passage in the Word of God that specifically says that? Having read it all the way through several times over (all 73 books of it) I can assure you that it is not there.:bible1: “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death.”

That is not in that verse and in fact, your statement is not accurate according to the Word of God. It would be better stated that “The ultimate sin unto death is rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior”, but even that is not scripturally accurate.

.

Perfect in the bible means “mature” God puts believers through a maturing process. To be perfected is to be mature in Christ.

The phrase “sin unto death” describes the final stage of divine discipline in which God removes from the earth the person who is totally alienated from God. The “sin unto death” is not a particular sin; but it is, rather, a mental attitude of total indifference to and rebellion against the will and purpose of God.
The spiritual condition of the person who comes under the “sin unto death” is characterized by continual and maximum carnality; and this punishment represents God’s final step of chastisement to those who are in maximum alienation from God. Only God can discern the true nature of a person’s mind, attitude, or volition; and only God knows whether a person is actually implacable and deserving of physical death.

The “sin unto death” is described as a principle in 1 John 5:16; Psalm 118:17,18; and Ezek. 18:21-32.

It is important for the Christian to understand the circumstances under which sins are not “unto death”.

First, sin which is confessed is not “unto death”. 1 John 1:9; 1 Cor. 11:31; Ps. 32:5; Ps. 38.

Second, sin which is discontinued is not “unto death”. Heb. 12:1; Eze. 18:21-32.

Finally, the person who responds positively to divine discipline is not involved in the “sin unto death”. Heb. 12:6, cf. 12:11-15.
There are definite characteristics by which to recognize the conditions which lead to God’s applying the “sin unto death”. Persistent, unconfessed sin, sin which continues unchecked with no repentance, may bring a person under this category. Also, the person who persistently ignores Grace, warnings, and discipline may come under the “sin unto death”. Lev. 26. Then, sin which has a maximum adverse effect on other people (causing stumbling) may lead a person into severe discipline.

Some case histories of the “sin unto death”:

• The case of “lying to the Holy Spirit” (Ananias and Sapphira). Acts 5:1-10.
• The case of persistent carnality while sitting at the Lord’s Table, 1 Cor. 11:30,31.
• The case of disobedience to the Word of God.1 Chron.10:13,14; 1 Sam. 13:9-14. King Saul did not kill Agag although directly ordered to do so by God; he insisted on personally offering sacrifices in the place of divinely appointed priests; and he consulted a witch, itself a capital offense.
• The case of self-righteousness and dependence on man which was perpetuated (case of Hezekiah). Isa. 38.
• The case of apostasy on the part of a believer. Num. 31:8; 1 Tim. 1:19,20.

 

[Gamera]

Easy. Not all believers are in fellowship with God. When you have unconfessed sin in your life, you are out of fellowship with God, yet still his child and saved in every way. If we say we have fellowship with Him and are walking in darkness (sin) we are a liar. That doesn’t mean that we aren’t saved. OSAS is the truth. You are under bondage of false doctrine.

No. Jesus’ shed blood has freed us from bondage. It is you who are under bondage to the false man-made tradition of OSAS. You can’t even see how obviously false it is. You just finished saying that a Christian loses their fellowship with God by sinning. That’s what grace is! “Fellowship with God” is grace! Lose “fellowship with God” and you are no longer welcome in heaven, unless you return to grace before death.

You’ve been shown Scripture after Scripture warning that grace CAN be lost – and regained. You seem to just ignore those verses because they don’t match your tradition. Your interpretation of some verses as allegedly supporting OSAS seem extremely weak and, frankly, I see no reason to choose your interpretation over mine. This isn’t meant as a personal affront, but you previously showed us that you don’t know the Scriptures especially well, when you claimed that holy water is “unBiblical” even though “holy water” is mentioned by name in Numbers 5:17. So why should I believe your interpretation of Scripture over mine?

Bottom line, the thread topic is “How to get to heaven” and you’ve not yet produced one single verse supporting your answer, that we get to heaven by “accepting Jesus as personal savior.” Can you quote any Bible verse that says that? Yes or no?