How To Get To Heaven

[Odell]

Easy. Not all believers are in fellowship with God. When you have unconfessed sin in your life, you are out of fellowship with God, yet still his child and saved in every way. If we say we have fellowship with Him and are walking in darkness (sin) we are a liar. That doesn’t mean that we aren’t saved. OSAS is the truth. You are under bondage of false doctrine.

First of all you did not answer the first question. If OSAS was so easy WHY cant you answer the question that you are so obviously trying to avoid?

EHRAM said this in response to you saying those in Heb Ch 10 are not sanctified they were never saved. Your exact words right?

So again what does verse 29 mean to you.

I have a fealing you will skip this again.

I will ask as many times as needed though.

Read Hebrews 10:29 again. It says that the person was “sanctified” (NIV, RSV, KJV) or “consecrated” (NAB) by the blood of the [new] covenant.

you say they are not sactified the bible says they are

now to your other response.

Easy. Not all believers are in fellowship with God. When you have unconfessed sin in your life, **you are ****out of fellowship **with God, yet still his child and saved in every way. **If we say we have fellowship **with Him and are walking in darkness (sin) we are a liar. That doesn’t mean that we aren’t saved. OSAS is the truth. You are under bondage of false doctrine.

You didnt explain the verse at all you contradict your own theology in your own statement and then suport it by a verse.

You really make this to easy for me

if you are out in fellowship you are not saved. And if you say you are in fellowship (saved yet follow darkness you are a liar hence you really are not IN FELLOWSHIP (saved)

And if you say that IN fellowship is not the same as being saved then you have a problem with the next verse

Verse 7 “But if we walk in the light as he is in the light (SAVED) then we have fellowship wih one another, and the blood of Christ.”

IN Fellowship = In light = fellowship with the blood of Christ

Out of fellowship = darkness = no fellowship with the blood of Christ

This is your formula Out of fellowship = darkness = no fellowship in the blood = still saved :doh2:

 

[Odell]

Perfect in the bible means “mature” God puts believers through a maturing process. To be perfected is to be mature in Christ.

The phrase “sin unto death” describes the final stage of divine discipline in which God removes from the earth the person who is totally alienated from God. The “sin unto death” is not a particular sin; but it is, rather, a mental attitude of total indifference to and rebellion against the will and purpose of God.
The spiritual condition of the person who comes under the “sin unto death” is characterized by continual and maximum carnality; and this punishment represents God’s final step of chastisement to those who are in maximum alienation from God. Only God can discern the true nature of a person’s mind, attitude, or volition; and only God knows whether a person is actually implacable and deserving of physical death.

The “sin unto death” is described as a principle in 1 John 5:16; Psalm 118:17,18; and Ezek. 18:21-32.

It is important for the Christian to understand the circumstances under which sins are not “unto death”.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Why is it that no matter how well or how much I explain things to you, you just don’t get it?

As far as Christians confessing their sins to God, it’s not to keep their salvation, it’s to remain in fellowship with God. If you die without confessing your sins, and you are saved, you will still go to heaven.

You are in bondage and fear man. You have to worry every day that you are going to hell, because you THINK it’s about good deeds, works and such, when the bible clearly says it’s not. You ignore the verses that you don’t like, while embracing the ones you do. I explain the verse to you, then you try to turn it around on me. It’s incredible. I have come to the conclusion that you don’t want to hear the truth, you want to believe your way, even though it is false.

 

[Mannyfit75]

You are in bondage and fear man. You have to worry every day that you are going to hell, because you THINK it’s about good deeds, works and such, when the bible clearly says it’s not. You ignore the verses that you don’t like, while embracing the ones you do. I explain the verse to you, then you try to turn it around on me. It’s incredible. I have come to the conclusion that you don’t want to hear the truth, you want to believe your way, even though it is false.

My misinformed Christian friend,

I obey the commandments out of love for God. You do not obey the commandments just to obey them like a soldier obeys an order. Jesus also told us that to be saved, you must love your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. Second, love your neighbor as you love yourself. He also said to obey the commandments, Jesus have given us.

Man himself cannot save himself. So God’s grace which we all have can move us to do the will of the Father. We become prayful, resist temptation, prayer is a very powerful weapon to combat sin. Prayer lessens it or prevent if it consistent.

As we do this. We ought to see Jesus in others. We see devout Christians both Catholic and Protestant, because Jesus told us to feed the hungry, clothed the naked, give drink to the thirsty, shelter the homeless, etc. Do we do this on our own? No, we do these out of love for God. So when we die, we will be judge according to what we have done. We are not judge by our faith.

What we believe is from Jesus Christ whom he spoken through his Church, the Catholic Church. This Church which Jesus established 2,000 yrs has record of perserving the Truth… For the Holy Mother, the Church is truly the Pillar and Bulwark of Truth…

I will tell you, your attempts to convert us Catholics, don’t work. Many of the Catholic members here are Former Protestants… and as well as Cradle Catholics. I can own the ex-Protestants for their testimony of their conversion stories. This has keep strong in my faith.

Lastly, the Catholic Church does not reject Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the Source, Center, and Summit of Our Faith…

You need to repeat this 10times because it seem to me that we reject Jesus. Oh pleaaaaaaaase!..

 

[EHRAM]

. So when we die, we will be judge according to what we have done. We are not judge by our faith.

Did you mean to say we are not judged by our faith alone, but how our faith has been demonstrated by what we have done (see CCC 161, 1021)?

 

[Church_Militant]

Why is it that no matter how well or how much I explain things to you, you just don’t get it?

That may have something to do with rejecting a different gospel…

As far as Christians confessing their sins to God, it’s not to keep their salvation, it’s to remain in fellowship with God. If you die without confessing your sins, and you are saved, you will still go to heaven.

And where, precisely, is that stated in the Word of God? So this passage from John 20:21-23 is just meaningless drivel? 21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

You are in bondage and fear man. You have to worry every day that you are going to hell, because you THINK it’s about good deeds, works and such, when the bible clearly says it’s not.

Where you get this I doubt any of us can fathom, since none of us that I have seen on this thread (or even on this whole forum for that matter!) have expressed any fear that we are going to hell…or that we expect to get into heaven by virtue of our good works alone, which is a good thing since that is not what the Catholic Church teaches.

Moreover, I have yet to see you prove that any of the biblical refutations I and my Catholic brothers and sisters have so far provided are in error, while I for one have proven that you are in biblical error in several points so far, which might, (I suppose) lead us to say something like “Why is it that no matter how well or how much I explain things to you, you just don’t get it?” But as I said above, we can understand your position because,

1. Some of us, (like me for instance), used to be in religions like yours and have been exposed to the same errant teachings, and
2. We “carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.” (2nd Timothy 2:15) and as a result have seen the errors involved and discovered the truth of the Word of God.

You ignore the verses that you don’t like, while embracing the ones you do.

But haven’t we asked you many times to explain and defend your teachings in the light of relevant passages of the New Testament I and others have presented and so far you have offered only sectarian interpretations of men instead of literal scripture.

I explain the verse to you, then you try to turn it around on me. It’s incredible.

That is because you present a very incomplete gospel that, as you yourself have said, ignores “the verses that you don’t like, while embracing the ones you do.” and when someone points it out to you you either ignore their post, or come back with rhetorical interpretations of men that contradict the word of God, as I have shown you several times already.

I have come to the conclusion that you don’t want to hear the truth, you want to believe your way, even though it is false.

You can believe that if it helps you to sleep at night, but I say that the fact is that your teaching does not even hold up to the scrutiny of simple faithful and knowledgeable Catholics, and you are unwilling to even consider that you might be in error. I cannot necessarily speak for all my Catholic brethren here, but to me, your preaching seems a great deal like that of someone who has bought completely into the modern teachings of men and not really looked into the Word of God and checked to see if what you have been taught really is what the early church wrote that they believed.

Regardless of your opinion and frustration, it will not deter me and my faithful Catholic brothers and sisters from continuing to speak the truth in love. Just as was preached to us last Sunday.

Reading II
2 Tm 3:14-4:2

Beloved:
Remain faithful to what you have learned and believed,
because you know from whom you learned it,
and that from infancy you have known the sacred Scriptures,
which are capable of giving you wisdom for salvation
through faith in Christ Jesus.
All Scripture is inspired by God
and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction,
and for training in righteousness,
so that one who belongs to God may be competent,
equipped for every good work.

I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus,
who will judge the living and the dead,
and by his appearing and his kingly power:
proclaim the word;
be persistent whether it is convenient or inconvenient;
convince, reprimand, encourage through all patience and teaching.

 

[Church_Militant]

Not all believers are in fellowship with God. When you have unconfessed sin in your life, you are out of fellowship with God, yet still his child and saved in every way. If we say we have fellowship with Him and are walking in darkness (sin) we are a liar. That doesn’t mean that we aren’t saved. OSAS is the truth. You are under bondage of false doctrine.

OSAS is grossly unbiblical error and as such is actually the false doctrine. Once Saved, Always Saved?

Perfect in the bible means “mature” God puts believers through a maturing process. To be perfected is to be mature in Christ.

One minute you tell us that we are already perfect according to the Bible and the next you tell us that it is a process, (something that the Catholic Church teaches). So, which is it xFBx?

The phrase “sin unto death” describes the final stage of divine discipline in which God removes from the earth the person who is totally alienated from God. The “sin unto death” is not a particular sin; but it is, rather, a mental attitude of total indifference to and rebellion against the will and purpose of God.
The spiritual condition of the person who comes under the “sin unto death” is characterized by continual and maximum carnality; and this punishment represents God’s final step of chastisement to those who are in maximum alienation from God.

But that’s not what the passage says and this explanation draws conclusions that are not stated there or anywhere else in the Word of God. This would qualify it as a teaching of man would it not?

Only God can discern the true nature of a person’s mind, attitude, or volition; and only God knows whether a person is actually implacable and deserving of physical death.

This contradicts what St. John writes in the passage in question, since he plainly says that we can know when a person has sinned unto death. Granted… Catholics would agree that only God knows the heart, but your teaching contradicts the Word of God here.

The “sin unto death” is described as a principle in 1 John 5:16; Psalm 118:17,18; and Ezek. 18:21-32.

It is important for the Christian to understand the circumstances under which sins are not “unto death”.

Catholics would agree with that. We have extensive teaching about it.

First, sin which is confessed is not “unto death”. 1 John 1:9; 1 Cor. 11:31; Ps. 32:5; Ps. 38. Second, sin which is discontinued is not “unto death”. Heb. 12:1; Eze. 18:21-32. Finally, the person who responds positively to divine discipline is not involved in the “sin unto death”. Heb. 12:6, cf. 12:11-15.

Three points upon which Catholics would agree.

There are definite characteristics by which to recognize the conditions which lead to God’s applying the “sin unto death”. Persistent, unconfessed sin, sin which continues unchecked with no repentance, may bring a person under this category. Also, the person who persistently ignores Grace, warnings, and discipline may come under the “sin unto death”. Lev. 26. Then, sin which has a maximum adverse effect on other people (causing stumbling) may lead a person into severe discipline.

Ok so far as it goes, but here you get into a problem with your unscriptural position on Confession which completely ignores John 20:21-23. Catholic Confession

Some case histories of the “sin unto death”:

• The case of “lying to the Holy Spirit” (Ananias and Sapphira). Acts 5:1-10.

Yep.

• The case of persistent carnality while sitting at the Lord’s Table, 1 Cor. 11:30,31.

Sorry, but this is not what St. Paul says. The Eucharist IS Scriptural

• The case of disobedience to the Word of God.1 Chron.10:13,14; 1 Sam. 13:9-14. King Saul did not kill Agag although directly ordered to do so by God; he insisted on personally offering sacrifices in the place of divinely appointed priests; and he consulted a witch, itself a capital offense.

Saul wasn’t killed because of this. He lost the kingship.

• The case of self-righteousness and dependence on man which was perpetuated (case of Hezekiah). Isa. 38.

I somehow doubt that this is what St. John was writing about…

• The case of apostasy on the part of a believer. Num. 31:8; 1 Tim. 1:19,20.

St. Paul nowhere asserts that this is a sin unto death though there is a good case there for excommunication.

 

[EHRAM]

Why is it that no matter how well or how much I explain things to you, you just don’t get it?

We could ask the same question that you have asked us.

As far as Christians confessing their sins to God, it’s not to keep their salvation, it’s to remain in fellowship with God. If you die without confessing your sins, and you are saved, you will still go to heaven.

You are in bondage and fear man. You have to worry every day that you are going to hell, because you THINK it’s about good deeds, works and such, when the bible clearly says it’s not. You ignore the verses that you don’t like, while embracing the ones you do. I explain the verse to you, then you try to turn it around on me. It’s incredible. I have come to the conclusion that you don’t want to hear the truth, you want to believe your way, even though it is false.

We aren’t in bondage and fear, but we do want to avoid offending God, who has loved us so much. We have freedom in Christ. We trust in God for our salvation and strive to live our lives in ways that please him. We show our love for God by obeying him. See John 14 (whole chapter), and 1 John 5:3.

We do not presume on his mercy and think foolishly that now that we have faith we can do as we like and he will still save us. “Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.” Read all of Galatians 6. Note that Paul addresses this part of his letter to “brothers.” He is addressing Christians. Those who sow to their sinful nature will reap destruction.

Nor do we believe that we can save ourselves by what we do, as you seem to believe that one can do simply by praying a particular prayer. Surely you must believe that the prayer you give at the beginning of this post must be accompanied by true inner conversion and that it is the inner conversion that is key, not the words themselves. Simply saying a prayer thinking that the words will save us (rather than God) is a form of the sin of superstition.

Only God has the power to save. He gives us the free gift of faith, through which we receive His grace which saves us.

And we can lose our salvation if we commit a mortal sin, i.e. a sin that leads to spiritual death. See the passage in Hebrews Ch 10 I asked you to read before. See 1 Timothy 1:18-19 where Paul warns that some have made shipwreck of their faith by acting against their conscience.

Nothing external can separate us from God and His Love (Romans 8), but we could choose to separate ourselves by rejecting Him, which we do if we intentionally disobey his commands in full knowledge of the consequences.

And as I stated before, we believe in the whole Bible. We are not disputing the truth of the verses that you have quoted. However, we do believe that verses must be read in the context of the Bible as a whole. If one verse says A and another says B, then A and B must BOTH be true. So if one verse says we are saved by grace through faith (Eph 2:8) and others state that faith must be expressed in love (Gal 5:6), and another says that we are justified by what we do, not by faith alone (James 2:24), etc., then all of these verses must be true.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Mannyfit75;2880424:

. So when we die, we will be judge according to what we have done. We are not judge by our faith.

Did you mean to say we are not judged by our faith alone, but how our faith has been demonstrated by what we have done (see CCC 161, 1021)?

We are not judge by faith alone. We are judge by what we have done.

 

[Milliardo]

As far as Christians confessing their sins to God, it’s not to keep their salvation, it’s to remain in fellowship with God. If you die without confessing your sins, and you are saved, you will still go to heaven.

Frodo, how can one be saved if one has not even confessed and repented of his sins? Nowhere is it stated that one can go to heaven while still in sin. Jesus is very much clear on this, as well as Paul and the other writers.

You are in bondage and fear man. You have to worry every day that you are going to hell, because you THINK it’s about good deeds, works and such, when the bible clearly says it’s not.

Please show us where is it explicitly stated in the Judgment passages that we are not to be judged according to what we have done (deeds, works). In each passage that pertains to Judgment, it is again clear that God will judge us by what we’ve done. So please show us to the contrary on that.

You ignore the verses that you don’t like, while embracing the ones you do.

It’s been shown to you that the passages you cite do not pertain to faith alone, but each time the understanding of faith is clear: it is obedience to Christ that is faith–this entails working. It seems that you ignore the implications of this to your notion. It is also noticeable how you ignore the Judgment passages, since they clearly contradict your notions regarding salvation.

 

[runandsew]

Perfect in the bible means “mature” God puts believers through a maturing process. To be perfected is to be mature in Christ.

The phrase “sin unto death” describes the final stage of divine discipline in which God removes from the earth the person who is totally alienated from God. The “sin unto death” is not a particular sin; but it is, rather, a mental attitude of total indifference to and rebellion against the will and purpose of God.
The spiritual condition of the person who comes under the “sin unto death” is characterized by continual and maximum carnality; and this punishment represents God’s final step of chastisement to those who are in maximum alienation from God. Only God can discern the true nature of a person’s mind, attitude, or volition; and only God knows whether a person is actually implacable and deserving of physical death.

The “sin unto death” is described as a principle in 1 John 5:16; Psalm 118:17,18; and Ezek. 18:21-32.

It is important for the Christian to understand the circumstances under which sins are not “unto death”.

First, sin which is confessed is not “unto death”. 1 John 1:9; 1 Cor. 11:31; Ps. 32:5; Ps. 38.

Second, sin which is discontinued is not “unto death”. Heb. 12:1; Eze. 18:21-32.

Finally, the person who responds positively to divine discipline is not involved in the “sin unto death”. Heb. 12:6, cf. 12:11-15.
There are definite characteristics by which to recognize the conditions which lead to God’s applying the “sin unto death”. Persistent, unconfessed sin, sin which continues unchecked with no repentance, may bring a person under this category. Also, the person who persistently ignores Grace, warnings, and discipline may come under the “sin unto death”. Lev. 26. Then, sin which has a maximum adverse effect on other people (causing stumbling) may lead a person into severe discipline.

Some case histories of the “sin unto death”:

• The case of “lying to the Holy Spirit” (Ananias and Sapphira). Acts 5:1-10.
• The case of persistent carnality while sitting at the Lord’s Table, 1 Cor. 11:30,31.
• The case of disobedience to the Word of God.1 Chron.10:13,14; 1 Sam. 13:9-14. King Saul did not kill Agag although directly ordered to do so by God; he insisted on personally offering sacrifices in the place of divinely appointed priests; and he consulted a witch, itself a capital offense.
• The case of self-righteousness and dependence on man which was perpetuated (case of Hezekiah). Isa. 38.
• The case of apostasy on the part of a believer. Num. 31:8; 1 Tim. 1:19,20.

It seems like we are throwing out bible passages back and forth, and not making any headway with them. I mean we are up to over 200 posts on this thread. You interpret scripture one way, and the Catholic posters interpret scripture another way.

My questions to you my little furry footed hobbit friend are these:

Was “once saved always saved” a teaching of the early Christian Church?

Did any of the early Church Fathers interpret scripture the way you do?

Did any of the early Church Fathers teach “once saved always saved”?

Or was this a doctrine started at the time of the Protestant reformation with the likes of John Calvin?

If the early Church Fathers did teach “once saved always saved”, the could you provide their quotes and links to these quotes, and if they did not teach this doctrine, then why do you think that they did not teach it or write about it?

I have seen in your previous posts that you believe in an underground bible believing church which was perscuted by the Catholic church through out the ages.
Are there any of their writings which teach “once saved, always saved”?
If so, could you please give us the quotes and the links to those quotes?

If this doctrine is true, then it must have been taught somewhere in the early church, either by the “underground bible believing churches”, or by the “evil” Catholic church.
Somewhere, there must be some written evidence of this doctrine being taught from the first few hundred years of the church.

 

[Odell]

Why is it that no matter how well or how much I explain things to you, you just don’t get it?

As far as Christians confessing their sins to God, it’s not to keep their salvation, it’s to remain in fellowship with God. If you die without confessing your sins, and you are saved, you will still go to heaven.

You are in bondage and fear man. You have to worry every day that you are going to hell, because you THINK it’s about good deeds, works and such, when the bible clearly says it’s not. You ignore the verses that you don’t like, while embracing the ones you do. I explain the verse to you, then you try to turn it around on me. It’s incredible. I have come to the conclusion that you don’t want to hear the truth, you want to believe your way, even though it is false.

HOW WELL

you cant even answer a bible question that I asked 3 times

Thats not doing to well

It sounds like you had enough are are comeing to an end here on the forums. I hope not I hope you stay around longer.

But you are geting desperate face it how come you have not answered my bible question.

Thats not doing to well my friend

So it is you who has to leave these forums not answering a bible question but yet are a bible Christian. Thats not saying to much.

Hey I even post it a fourth time but who am I kiding your not going to answer

You said in Heb Ch 10

they are not sanctified they were never saved.

Your exact words right?

So again what does verse 29 mean to you.

I have a fealing you will skip this again.

I will ask as many times as needed though.

Read Hebrews 10:29 again. It says that the person was “sanctified” (NIV, RSV, KJV) or “consecrated” (NAB) by the blood of the [new] covenant.

you say they are not sactified the bible says they are

You want answer because you are wrong thats the only conclusion I come too.

Makes me just want to leave my faith because you have done so well here.

Try to answer this time if you cant sorry to say it would just be better for you to leave.

But it is you who would have to tell people not to come to the catholic forums not because we would not listen but because you cant answer our questions no one can. Therfore it really isnt a forum because that would consist of dialogue and we dont have a forum because you simple want respond to us Catholics:thumbsup:

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Frodo, how can one be saved if one has not even confessed and repented of his sins? Nowhere is it stated that one can go to heaven while still in sin. Jesus is very much clear on this, as well as Paul and the other writers.
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No, look to BECOME saved, yes you confess that you are a sinner to God and confess with your mouth His Son as your Savior and Lord and believe that He died on the cross and rose from the dead.

Now that you are already saved, you are still a sinner. You still sin every day. The difference is that a Born again believer is not willing to sin and is remorseful when he/she sins. As a Born again believer, God is now your Father. In order to maintain fellowship with God, you need to confess your sins to Him. If you have unconfessed sins in your life, AND you are already saved, you will still go to heaven when you die, but you will be out of fellowship with God until you confess those sins to HIM.

You lump everyone into the same basket. God handles a saved person differently than He does an unsaved person.

 

[Gamera]

If you have unconfessed sins in your life, AND you are already saved, you will still go to heaven when you die, but you will be out of fellowship with God until you confess those sins to HIM.

Suppose this person dies right now. How can they go to heaven if they are “out of fellowship with God?” Will they spend eternity out of fellowship, in some separate part of heaven, away from God? Or does something happen to them post-death that restores them to fellowship with God? Can they confess their sins to God after they’ve died? Isn’t it too late then?

See, this is just double-talk. “Salvation” and “fellowship with God” are the same thing. Either you are in a state of grace or you aren’t. You can’t choose to throw away your fellowship with God, die unrepentant and still go to heaven.

 

[Odell]

Frodo are those in Heb Ch 10 sanctified or not?

YOU say no scripture says yes

Read Hebrews 10:29 again. It says that the person was “sanctified” (NIV, RSV, KJV) or “consecrated” (NAB) by the blood of the [new] covenant.

 

[Church_Militant]

No, look to BECOME saved, yes you confess that you are a sinner to God and confess with your mouth His Son as your Savior and Lord and believe that He died on the cross and rose from the dead.

, still preaching a different gospel than the one the New Testament does in Acts 2:38 and 22:16 as well as 8:26-40.

Now that you are already saved, you are still a sinner. You still sin every day. The difference is that a Born again believer is not willing to sin and is remorseful when he/she sins. As a Born again believer, God is now your Father. In order to maintain fellowship with God, you need to confess your sins to Him.

And what provision has Our Lord commanded in His church to accomplish that confession of sins? John 20:21-23 and for context see James 5:16 and 1st John 1:9.

If you have unconfessed sins in your life, AND you are already saved, you will still go to heaven when you die, but you will be out of fellowship with God until you confess those sins to HIM.

Yeah, you’re almost right…(Remember that close only counts with horseshoes, hand grenades and atomic weapons…) but then we come to the Word of God and find the following in Matthew 5:23-26
23 If therefore thou offer thy gift at the altar, and there thou remember that thy brother hath any thing against thee; 24 Leave there thy offering before the altar, and go first to be reconciled to thy brother: and then coming thou shalt offer thy gift. 25 Be at agreement with thy adversary betimes, whilst thou art in the way with him: lest perhaps the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing.

You lump everyone into the same basket. God handles a saved person differently than He does an unsaved person.

Well, at least there is something upon which we can agree.

 

[Milliardo]

Now that you are already saved, you are still a sinner. You still sin every day. The difference is that a Born again believer is not willing to sin and is remorseful when he/she sins.

You seem so hopelessly confused; first you say that even if you’re already saved, you are still a sinner. Yet you backtrack, and say that as a born again you are not willing to sin. So which is which?

As a Born again believer, God is now your Father. In order to maintain fellowship with God, you need to confess your sins to Him. If you have unconfessed sins in your life, AND you are already saved, you will still go to heaven when you die, but you will be out of fellowship with God until you confess those sins to HIM.

This becomes even more confusing–you say that if you have unconfessed sins, you will still go to heaven? Yet, you say that to maintain fellowship with God, you need to confess your sins. So, you are still saved even with unconfessed sins? Isn’t sin in itself a disfellowship with God–so how can a man who has not confessed his sins enter heaven?

You lump everyone into the same basket. God handles a saved person differently than He does an unsaved person.

What passage have you seen this? No passage that pertains to Judgment even hints of it this way. To God, all who come into Judgment to Him are the same, no special favours. You seem to still think of another Gospel from the one Jesus Himself taught.

 

[Philthy]

All sin leads to death…

Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Which sins are not included here?

I see. So “all sin leads to death”, but “the only true sin unto death is rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior”. Have you ever actually stopped to think about the paradigm you construct? or do the people you are surrounded by actually buy into this?

 

[deanarrca]

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx
If you have unconfessed sins in your life, AND you are already saved, you will still go to heaven when you die, but you will be out of fellowship with God until you confess those sins to HIM.

If you are still sinning, how do you know for sure whether or not you are “saved” but just out of fellowship with God, or whether you weren’t really “saved” when you said the sinners prayer? There is No security there. Maybe that is why so many in the OSAS camp say the sinners prayer over and over every time they sin because they aren’t really secure in there salvation and aren’t sure it stuck the first time.

 

[guanophore]

Yes you would absolutely still go to heaven because Christ died for past, present and future sins.

Definitely, Christ died for all the sins of everyone, for all time. However, not everyone applies His saving blood to themselves.

Eph 4:30 (NKJV) And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

How do you grieve the Holy Spirit?

By spurning the seal, and acting as if it is not on you.

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

When you read the letters and gospel of John, it is clear that when John is writing about “believe on the name” he is talking about an obedient faith. Intellectual assent that Jesus died for sins is not suffiicient unto salvation, as even the demons believe that.

John 13:17
17 If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them.

For John, as for all the Apostles, real faith is faith that works. It obeys.

If you can lose your salvation, do you KNOW that you have eternal life?

Good question. One knows if one is doing those things that demonstrate one has recelved grace.

9 For whoever lacks these things is blind and shortsighted and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall;2 Peter 1:9-10

Why would the Apostle make reference to falling, if a person couldn’t fall?

Those who believe on Jesus Christ for salvation can rest assured that they have eternal life in HIM.

It aint over till it’s over, and as long as we are on the face of the earth, we are at risk of failing to confirm our call and election. Names that have been written in the book of life can be blotted out:

5 He who conquers shall be clad thus in white garments, and I will not blot his name out of the book of life; I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. Rev 3:4-5

Jesus writes the names, and He has the right to blot them out.

Not in the church, good deeds or any other false God. Only Him. He alone is God and able to save you. Stop trying to take the credit for salvation away from what Jesus Christ did for you.

You are making distinctions that do not exist, and if I may note, ignorant accusations. There is no distinction between obedience to Christ, and obedience to the Church, because the two are one. Good deeds are the reflection of saving faith, and proceed out of the saving grace that produces them. The reason that people who obey Christ and demonstrate their faith by good fruit and good deeds is because they are connected to saving grace.

The good works that believers do have been prepared for them before the foundation of the world, and are ways to glorify God. you are wrong to say that they “take credit away” from God.