How to handle ISIS

[nothingclever]

:shrug:Ehh the US government gave them all there funding in the first place. Gotta justify the military industrial complex somehow, no more Bolsheviks to worry about after all. I’d say pray for your enemy’s and love everyone like they were Jesus. It seems crazy, but I remember reading it somewhere…

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

wordonfire.org/resources/article/a-message-in-blood-isis-and-the-meaning-of-the-cross/4677/

Last week, the attention of the world was riveted to a deserted beach in northern Libya, where a group of twenty one Coptic Christians were brutally beheaded by masked operatives of the ISIS movement. In the wake of the executions, ISIS released a gruesome video entitled “A Message in Blood to the Nation of the Cross.” I suppose that for the ISIS murderers the reference to “the Nation of the Cross” had little sense beyond a generic designation for Christianity. Sadly for most Christians, too, the cross has become little more than an anodyne, a harmless symbol, a pious decoration. I would like to take the awful event on that Libyan beach, as well as the ISIS message concerning it, as an occasion to reflect on the still startling distinctiveness of the cross.

In the time of Jesus, the cross was a brutal and very effective sign of Roman power. Imperial authorities effectively said, “If you cross us (pun intended), we will affix you to a dreadful instrument of torture and leave you to writhe in agonizing, literally excruciating (ex cruce, from the cross) pain until you die. Then we will make sure that your body hangs on that gibbet until it is eaten away by scavenging animals.” The cross was, basically, state-sponsored terrorism, and it did indeed terrify people. The great Roman statesman and philosopher Cicero once described a crucifixion but only through a convoluted circumlocution, for he couldn’t bring himself to characterize it directly. After putting down the great slave uprising of Spartacus, the Roman government lined the Appian Way with hundreds of crosses so as to dissuade any other would-be revolutionaries. Pontius Pilate had much the same intention when he nailed dozens of Jewish rebels to the walls of Jerusalem. That same Pilate arranged for Jesus to be crucified on Calvary Hill, a promontory situated close to one of the gates of ancient Jerusalem, guaranteeing that his horrific death would not be missed by the large Passover crowds moving in and out of the city.

From the crucified Jesus, all of the disciples, save John, fled, precisely because they wanted with all their hearts to avoid his dreadful fate. After Good Friday, the friends of Jesus huddled in terror in the Upper Room, petrified that they might be nailed up on Calvary as well. The disciples on the road to Emmaus were, understandably, heading out of Jerusalem, away from danger, and they were utterly convinced that Jesus’ movement had come to naught. In a word, the cross meant the victory of the world, and the annihilation of Jesus and what he stood for.

And this is why it is surpassing strange that one of the earliest Apostles and missionaries of the Christian religion could write, “I preach one thing, Christ and him crucified!” How could Paul—the passage is taken from his first letter to the Corinthians—possibly present the dreadful cross as the centerpiece of his proclamation? He could do so only because he knew that God had raised the crucified Jesus from the dead, proving thereby that God’s love and forgiveness are greater than anything in the world. This is why his exaltation of the cross is a sort of taunt to Rome and all of its brutal descendants down through the ages: “You think that scares us? God has conquered that!” And this is why, to this day, Christians boldly hold up an image of the humiliated, tortured Jesus to the world. What they are saying is, “We are not afraid.”

How wonderful this is, by the way, in light of the Charlie Hebdo tragedy and the controversy over the Dutch cartoonist’s mocking depictions of the prophet Muhammad. Christians don’t fuss particularly about insults to Jesus, for we reverence a depiction of the insulted Christ as our most sacred icon. We can say, with Paul, “I am certain that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither height nor depth, nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom. 8:38-39), for we know that the world killed Jesus but God raised him from the dead.

Just before their throats were cut, many of the murdered Coptic Christians could be seen mouthing the words “Jesus Christ” and “Jesus is Lord.” The first of those phrases is a rendering of the Aramaic Ieshouah Maschiach, which means “Jesus the anointed one” and which hearkens back to King David, the paradigmatic anointed figure of the Old Testament. The second phrase is one that can be traced to St. Paul’s kerygmatic cry Iesous Kyrios (Jesus Lord!), which was intended to trump a watchword of the time, Kaiser Kyrios (Caesar is Lord). In short, both declarations assert the kingship of Jesus, but what a strange kingship! The new David reigns, not from a throne, but from a cross; the one who trumps Caesar doesn’t lead an army, but embodies the divine forgiveness.

The ISIS barbarians were actually quite right in entitling their video “A Message Written in Blood.” Up and down the centuries, tyrants and their lackeys have thought that they could wipe out the followers of Jesus through acts of violence. But as Tertullian observed long ago, the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church. And they were furthermore right in sending their message to “the Nation of the Cross.” But they should know that the cross taunts them.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

By them all ice creams, dipped in chocolate from Toppers. Then explain to them that we respect their differences. That they are free to practice their Islam how they wish. I think they will understand and appreciate our courtesy. Respecting differences help us co exist.
That is what secular enlightenment has taught me.

Lol.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

abcnews.go.com/International/american-soldier-christ-fighting-isis-iraq/story?id=29171878

He is 28 years old. Detroit born and bred. An Army veteran. And now he is a self-described “Soldier of Christ” back in Iraq, fighting ISIS on the front lines.

Iraq Vet Joins Fight Against ISIS
ABC News
“People ask me, ‘Why you?’ I come back and I say, 'Why not? Why just me? Where’s everyone else at?” said Brett, who requested that ABC News not use his last name to protect his family back home.

“Jesus says, you know, ‘What you do unto the least of them, you do unto me,’” he added. “I take that very seriously.”

Brett returned to Iraq six months ago. In 2006-07, he served in the infamous “Triangle of Death,” where he said he was badly wounded in an IED attack on his Humvee.

He came here, he told ABC News, to defend the defenseless – to protect the Christians and others in this part of Iraq who have been terrorized by the ISIS onslaught: driven from their homes, massacred, their women and girls raped and sold into slavery.

He is of Irish and Polish descent, raised Roman Catholic and now describes himself simply as a Christian.

Brett fights alongside a small, local Christian militia – the Dweikh Nawsha. They are under the command of Kurdish peshmerga forces in this part of Iraq.

From Brett’s forward position, in the deserted Christian village of Bakufa, about eight miles from the outskirts of the city of Mosul in northern Iraq, you can see the black flags of ISIS whipping against the sky in a stiff winter wind.

 

[powerofk]

What are these people proposing - to go to Syria and join the local Kurdish militia?

(note: this is illegal for Australians now; not sure where the US stands on it).

It’s illegal in the US, too (has been for decades, at least). In fact, serving in a foreign military (even if the US is not engaged in war against that country) can cause immediate loss of citizenship.

Or do they just mean it’s time for our governents to escelate their involvement in the conflict? That is a very complex issue and rest assured that many governments are collectively and separately weighing such choices.

Otherwise, prayer is all any of us regular civilians can do.

Prayer is the most important thing we can do. Otherwise, we can help by donating money to groups devoted to aiding those being persecuted by ISIS.

 

[Veector]

This is good, but I’m a bit lost with the “prayer” subject. I want to understand it better.
For example, I’m about to read the Bible and I say a short prayer first; asking God for understanding. Should I infer that whatever I grasp after reading whatever passage is the right way to interpret it? Considering I prayed before.
Thanks, in advance. Help from anyone else would be appreciated.

I now understand prayer & other things. May God be praised.

 

[Veector]

This is good, but I’m a bit lost with the “prayer” subject. I want to understand it better.
For example, I’m about to read the Bible and I say a short prayer first; asking God for understanding. Should I infer that whatever I grasp after reading whatever passage is the right way to interpret it? Considering I prayed before.
Thanks, in advance. Help from anyone else would be appreciated.

 

[JorduSpeaks]

Prayer is important to help change the hearts of those who commit these atrocities, but remember that they can always choose to not let their hearts be changed. God does not enslave us to the side of good. If they refuse to allow their hearts to be changed, stopping human evil is a human responsibility, not God’s.

 

[Tonynot]

You should probably realize they are a few evil people on the other side of the earth and they actually have no impact in your life whatsoever, other than making you fearful.

Before the era of rapid communication, this would never be something you knew about so there is really nothing you as a person should do.

As a country, I think we should stay out of it and keep to ourselves. If we would have done that for the past few decades we would be in a much better place now.

 

[JorduSpeaks]

You should probably realize they are a few evil people on the other side of the earth and they actually have no impact in your life whatsoever, other than making you fearful.

Before the era of rapid communication, this would never be something you knew about so there is really nothing you as a person should do.

As a country, I think we should stay out of it and keep to ourselves. If we would have done that for the past few decades we would be in a much better place now.

A few people? They are an army over 300,000 strong, and part of a larger movement that has been terrorizing people across three continents for the better part of fourteen centuries. Right now, Europe is under siege, the Middle East is in turmoil, and Africa is in tatters.

The fact that the victims of these actions are “on the other side of the world” does not reduce the value of their lives. Our country has the ability to save countless innocent people from rape, theft, torture, slavery, and death. This means we also have the responsibility to do so.

 

[Madaglan]

Sow internal discord, encourage factions against one another. Stoke theological disagreement among the militants. Create competing caliphs. Let them behead one another into oblivion.

As individuals, pray for the end of Islam and the conversion of Muslims, and work on defending our countries from the spread of Shariah.

 

[Tonynot]

A few people? They are an army over 300,000 strong, and part of a larger movement that has been terrorizing people across three continents for the better part of fourteen centuries. Right now, Europe is under siege, the Middle East is in turmoil, and Africa is in tatters.

The fact that the victims of these actions are “on the other side of the world” does not reduce the value of their lives. Our country has the ability to save countless innocent people from rape, theft, torture, slavery, and death. This means we also have the responsibility to do so.

300,000 people is about 0.0043% of the people on earth, which statistically is not many.

I also never made the claim that their lives have value, I just know that going after them creates more unnecessary violence and would make their reasoning more valid to them.

Throughout history terrible groups of people have done terrible things to others, humanity is slowly evolving and this happens much less in the past but it still happens. Unfortunately there is nothing “we” can do to actually improve this situation as we have tried multiple times to go after them, and it has resulted in nothing but more innocent death and tragedies.

If you look at this logically and with perspective of when and where you are at a certain time, it seems fairly obvious that it has no direct effect on your life. Horrible people will remain horrible and the best thing you can do is be a good person and fall back on your morals.

 

[AlphaFoxtrotNW]

Strictly speaking, as a studying tactician as a pass time hobby, it was mentioned earlier about the Just War Theory. My thoughts are, Why havent we acted upon it? I dont think the Islamic religious in Saudi Arabia much care for these renegades so why not deal with it now? It frustrates me to no end to hear about the Nazi sort of mindset to kill really just about anyone. Why not scourge them from this world? Why are we not being active enough?

 

[EasterJoy]

This isn’t a charitable response, but I’ve stated it before: I think we oughta drop some Ebola on them and let nature take its course.
I actually kind of believe that.

That wouldn’t just be uncharitable. That would be a war crime.

***2312 **The Church and human reason both assert the permanent validity of the moral law during armed conflict. "The mere fact that war has regrettably broken out does not mean that everything becomes licit between the warring parties.(Gaudium et Spes, 79 # 4)

**2313 **Non-combatants, wounded soldiers, and prisoners must be respected and treated humanely.
Actions deliberately contrary to the law of nations and to its universal principles are crimes, as are the orders that command such actions. Blind obedience does not suffice to excuse those who carry them out. Thus the extermination of a people, nation, or ethnic minority must be condemned as a mortal sin. One is morally bound to resist orders that command genocide.

2314 “Every act of war directed to the indiscriminate destruction of whole cities or vast areas with their inhabitants is a crime against God and man, which merits firm and unequivocal condemnation.” (Gaudium et Spes, 80 #3) A danger of modern warfare is that it provides the opportunity to those who possess modern scientific weapons especially atomic, biological, or chemical weapons - to commit such crimes.*

When you think about doing something so unethical that your willingness to kill children or leave them orphans as “collateral damage” would shock the pagans and the atheists, it’s really time to get back to praying.

 

[EasterJoy]

How to handle Isis?

2 to the chest and one to the head.

Evil is evil.

This isn’t quite “Father, forgive them, they know not what they do,” friend.

(This is a Catholic web site, right? I haven’t been misdirected to a discussion forum for some secular newspaper? How does anyone know the difference between this thread and those? )

 

[EasterJoy]

Strictly speaking, as a studying tactician as a pass time hobby, it was mentioned earlier about the Just War Theory. My thoughts are, Why havent we acted upon it? I dont think the Islamic religious in Saudi Arabia much care for these renegades so why not deal with it now? It frustrates me to no end to hear about the Nazi sort of mindset to kill really just about anyone. Why not scourge them from this world? Why are we not being active enough?

Certainly there is a right to protect our sovereign borders and to protect innocent lives around the world. It is not forbidden to ever wage war. It has to be done in a way that does not so violate just and proportionate morality that we scandalize even the pagans and the atheists, however. The Nazi Party chose groups of people to “scourge.” We don’t do that. We identify dangerous people and neutralize their ability to harm others and we punish those who commit crimes in a fashion that is not disproportionately cruel.

In other words, we don’t allow their hatred and incivility make us into another version of them. We have been bought, and at a price. We are bound to serve divine law, which by the blessing of Heaven has been revealed to us in the moral teachings of the Church, and may not operate in any way we see fit rather than in the way that leads to life.

 

[LethalMouse]

This isn’t quite “Father, forgive them, they know not what they do,” friend.

(This is a Catholic web site, right? I haven’t been misdirected to a discussion forum for some secular newspaper? How does anyone know the difference between this thread and those? )

When in direct face of an ISIS militant and within the CCC on self defense and Just war, this would be the standard training for those who would be there.

CCC and Just War line up quite well with the God of the OT if you get my leaning…and God in that case would most assuredly approve if the conditions are met.

On the flip side, ISIS - eh… there are plenty of more interested nations that could stop them who are living next to them, but they know they can get the west to waste their money instead of them spending their own. ISIS is not scary, the idea that they kill like 10 people in some poor tactical “attack” in the west? there are random hitmen and gang members who rack up more kills than ISIS. ISIS is less scary than the next Ted Bundy.

 

[EasterJoy]

When in direct face of an ISIS militant and within the CCC on self defense and Just war, this would be the standard training for those who would be there.

CCC and Just War line up quite well with the God of the OT if you get my leaning…and God in that case would most assuredly approve if the conditions are met.

On the flip side, ISIS - eh… there are plenty of more interested nations that could stop them who are living next to them, but they know they can get the west to waste their money instead of them spending their own. ISIS is not scary, the idea that they kill like 10 people in some poor tactical “attack” in the west? there are random hitmen and gang members who rack up more kills than ISIS. ISIS is less scary than the next Ted Bundy.

I think we are on the same page. There are times when it is not only allowable but a grave duty to kill an unjust aggressor bent on slaughtering someone innocent. What is not OK is deeming all members of a political movement to be so evil as to justify pre-emptive elimination, let alone to wipe out an entire civilian population that shelters some of them. To advocate going on a killing spree out of fear that an attack may be coming from one’s enemies is the World, the Flesh, and the Devil talking, not the mind of Christ.

 

[fin]

Yes. If you’d like to pray rosaries for the defeat of ISIS, you can join here 1millionrosaries.com/petition/defeat-isis-english/?utm_campaign=2016

Prayer to Our Lady of Fatima for the conversion of Muslims
onepeterfive.com/a-fatima-novena-for-the-conversion-of-muslims/

Sow internal discord, encourage factions against one another. Stoke theological disagreement among the militants. Create competing caliphs. Let them behead one another into oblivion.

As individuals, pray for the end of Islam and the conversion of Muslims, and work on defending our countries from the spread of Shariah.

 

[on_the_hill]

That wouldn’t just be uncharitable. That would be a war crime.

When you think about doing something so unethical that your willingness to kill children or leave them orphans as “collateral damage” would shock the pagans and the atheists, it’s really time to get back to praying.

That’s why it’s a good thing I’m not in charge.