How to intercept an abortion---confidentiality issue

[Do_Good_Then_Go]

Actually it is. If the friend has no right to the information and no reason, in the course of her job to have the information, the hospital should not havegiven her that information.

And it didn’t. The friend found out “by accident.”

So if she then walks up to this woman, and says anything about her procedure, the woman would be well within her rights to report the friend to the hospital and demand that the friend be terminated.

And I would, it if happened to me.

Privacy laws are there for a reason. The OP’s friend should learn to keep her mouth shut.

Exactly.

 

[Didascalia]

Actually it is. If the friend has no right to the information and no reason, in the course of her job to have the information, the hospital should not havegiven her that information.

And it didn’t. The friend found out “by accident.”

So if she then walks up to this woman, and says anything about her procedure, the woman would be well within her rights to report the friend to the hospital and demand that the friend be terminated.

And I would, it if happened to me.

Privacy laws are there for a reason. The OP’s friend should learn to keep her mouth shut.

I agree whole heartedly. It may have been an accident that she found the OR list, but it was not an accident that she read it. nor was it an accident that she picked up the phone and told casey zia, who picked up her laptop and told the WORLD!
This sort of behaviour damages the pro-life movement…BIG TIME!

 

[njlisa]

Actually it is. If the friend has no right to the information and no reason, in the course of her job to have the information, the hospital should not havegiven her that information.

And it didn’t. The friend found out “by accident.”

So if she then walks up to this woman, and says anything about her procedure, the woman would be well within her rights to report the friend to the hospital and demand that the friend be terminated.

And I would, it if happened to me.

Privacy laws are there for a reason. The OP’s friend should learn to keep her mouth shut.

 

[foundmyfaith]

Actually it is. If the friend has no right to the information and no reason, in the course of her job to have the information, the hospital should not havegiven her that information.

And it didn’t. The friend found out “by accident.”

So if she then walks up to this woman, and says anything about her procedure, the woman would be well within her rights to report the friend to the hospital and demand that the friend be terminated.

And I would, it if happened to me.

Privacy laws are there for a reason. The OP’s friend should learn to keep her mouth shut.

This.

 

[OrangeOwl]

Actually it is. If the friend has no right to the information and no reason, in the course of her job to have the information, the hospital should not havegiven her that information.

And it didn’t. The friend found out “by accident.”

So if she then walks up to this woman, and says anything about her procedure, the woman would be well within her rights to report the friend to the hospital and demand that the friend be terminated.

And I would, it if happened to me.

Privacy laws are there for a reason. The OP’s friend should learn to keep her mouth shut.

A confidentiality breach occurs when you reveal information to someone who (1) does not have the right to the information, and (2) is not already aware of the information. Neither would occur by talking to a patient about their own medical condition.

However, her friend should obey all just laws. Her friend should not obey unjust laws. How that applies to these circumstances, I have no idea.

My familiarity with HIPAA is zero. But if following HIPAA would entail allowing an abortion you could’ve tried to prevent? Is that an unjust law? It’s something to think about with someone of more knowledge and authority.

Therefore: contact the CatholicAnswers hotline or a priest.

 

[maryjk]

A confidentiality breach occurs when you reveal information to someone who (1) does not have the right to the information, and (2) is not already aware of the information. Neither would occur by talking to a patient about their own medical condition.

Or if you take action on information you have, that is not part of your job. Simply working at the hospital doesn’t give anyone the right to approach the patient about their condition. If that were the case, the janitor could walk up to a patient and talk to that patient about their condition.

The OP’s friend does not have a right to the information. Therefore the hospital has been remiss in allowing her to have it. And once you know information, that you have no right to, you are required to keep that information private.

(Looking, now, it seems like you have added to your post.)

 

[njlisa]

I would guess that this issue is now moot, as the initial post was six hours ago.

 

[maryjk]

However, her friend should obey all just laws. Her friend should not obey unjust laws. How that applies to these circumstances, I have no idea.

My familiarity with HIPAA is zero. But if following HIPAA would entail allowing an abortion you could’ve tried to prevent? Is that an unjust law? It’s something to think about with someone of more knowledge and authority.

Therefore: contact the CatholicAnswers hotline or a priest.

The OP has no idea if the person is having an abortion. “Abortion” is not a medical term. Someone having an abortion would not have “abortion” listed on the OR sheet.

So the OP’s friend is assuming that this woman is having an abortion. And now wants to approach the woman and what? Confront her? Try to stop her from having the procedure?

If someone had done that to me, after my D&C? I would have blown up. And I would have taken it to the highest level, to have this person disciplined or terminated.

The OP’s friend doesn’t know the story of why this person is scheduled for a D&C or D&E. And that is good, since she doesn’t know how to keep patient information confidential.

 

[OrangeOwl]

I would guess that this issue is now moot, as the initial post was six hours ago.

Yes, I supposed so…

 

[OrangeOwl]

Or if you take action on information you have, that is not part of your job. Simply working at the hospital doesn’t give anyone the right to approach the patient about their condition. If that were the case, the janitor could walk up to a patient and talk to that patient about their condition.

The OP’s friend does not have a right to the information. Therefore the hospital has been remiss in allowing her to have it. And once you know information, that you have no right to, you are required to keep that information private.

I can actually see your argument here as to how this is a confidentiality breach. I wish it were easier to to plow through HIPAA rules to know for sure. But, regardless, my interest is more at whether this would be considered an unjust law where you know you could stop an abortion (purely a hypothetical situation, sure).

 

[Publisher]

Hi, everyone. Received a distressed phone call from a friend this morning. She works at a hospital and totally by accident she saw the O.R. list for today and noticed that an acquaintance was booked for an abortion. Confidentiality is a big thing to breach; does one breach it in this instance? Can she seek out this woman after looking at a list that she wasn’t privy to look at? We’ve been praying hard all morning. What more can be done? :bighanky:

By sharing here at CAF you break HIPPA rules guaranteeing the privacy of medical information. Your friend’s medical record is not for your publication even if here at CAF…it is confidential.

You may inform the medical staff of a possible issue with the procedure due to your religious beliefs…but that should…and MUST be kept private and confidential.

Your “friend” probably would not be too happy with you, should she know you violate her HIPPA protection.

Just sayin’

 

[Do_Good_Then_Go]

I can actually see your argument here as to how this is a confidentiality breach. I wish it were easier to to plow through HIPAA rules to know for sure.

Every country has their own version of privacy laws. I don’t know the specifics of HIPAA as I’m not in the US but I’m confident that telling someone else what you’ve seen on the OR list would be a huge confidentiality breach anywhere. And for the OP’s friend to approach the woman concerned would be a further and very serious breach of confidentiality and privacy anywhere.

I understand that the general public may not know the specifics of the applicable laws but I’m very surprised to hear that someone working in a hospital is not aware of their obligations under the relevant privacy provisions. These are not unjust laws, by the way. They’re designed to ensure that a person’s personal health information remains private and is only shared with those who need the information to do their job of treating the patient.

 

[foundmyfaith]

I can actually see your argument here as to how this is a confidentiality breach. I wish it were easier to to plow through HIPAA rules to know for sure. But, regardless, my interest is more at whether this would be considered an unjust law where you know you could stop an abortion (purely a hypothetical situation, sure).

Let me give you a different example.

As a young ‘man’ (not sure if you are male or female) you get penile cancer. You develop complications from the cancer and have to have a surgery to remove a cancerous lesion. ‘Excision of lesion, penis’ is listed on the OR schedule. An aquaintence who works in the hospital calls and tells people that a guy is having genital warts removed from his penis, because it would be listed the same way.

Same principle. Not enough info, and surely no ones business. Confidentiality in healthcare is necessary for the dignity of the patient.

 

[njlisa]

I can actually see your argument here as to how this is a confidentiality breach. I wish it were easier to to plow through HIPAA rules to know for sure. But, regardless, my interest is more at whether this would be considered an unjust law where you know you could stop an abortion (purely a hypothetical situation, sure).

But how on earth could she have stopped the procedure – especially since she was dealing with an acquaintance? Was she supposed to walk into her room, admit having snooped on her records, and then have some sort of “heart-to-heart” with the patient. I see no possible positive outcome to this confrontation. I wouldn’t even like it if an acquaintance came into my room and said, “Oh, I understand you’re in here for heart surgery. Have you considered changes in your diet instead?”

I don’t mean to sound flip, but nobody, not even a doctor who is not assigned to your case, has the right to come in and advise you about medical treatment.

It’s none of her business.

And just as an aside, I have found unsolicited medical advice to be entirely unhelpful. When I had surgery 10 years ago, so many people had an opinion or horror story to share with me before the procedure. It only made the lead-up to surgery more stressful. Recovery was a breeze compared to what I went through beforehand.

 

[april32010]

I don’t mean to sound flip, but nobody, not even a doctor who is not assigned to your case, has the right to come in and advise you about medical treatment.

if this was an abortion,it isn’t medical treatment .its murder

 

[njlisa]

if this was an abortion,it isn’t medical treatment .its murder

True. But she didn’t know that was the case. And she didn’t have the right to know.

 

[severus68]

casey zia and her friend are not Christ, how ridiculous! If the Canadian press picked up on casey zia’s post, the headline would read…ANTI ABORTION CATHOLIC HEALTHWORKERS LEAK PATIENT DETAILS…What do you think that would do for our pro-life cause? Not a lot I would suspect.

I think you misunderstood April.

 

[severus68]

Actually it is. If the friend has no right to the information and no reason, in the course of her job to have the information, the hospital should not havegiven her that information.

And it didn’t. The friend found out “by accident.”

So if she then walks up to this woman, and says anything about her procedure, the woman would be well within her rights to report the friend to the hospital and demand that the friend be terminated.

And I would, it if happened to me.

Privacy laws are there for a reason. The OP’s friend should learn to keep her mouth shut.

Agreed.

 

[Didascalia]

Let me give you a different example.

As a young ‘man’ (not sure if you are male or female) you get penile cancer. You develop complications from the cancer and have to have a surgery to remove a cancerous lesion. ‘Excision of lesion, penis’ is listed on the OR schedule. An aquaintence who works in the hospital calls and tells people that a guy is having genital warts removed from his penis, because it would be listed the same way.

Same principle. Not enough info, and surely no ones business. Confidentiality in healthcare is necessary for the dignity of the patient.

 

[RoseMary131]

Hi, everyone. Received a distressed phone call from a friend this morning. She works at a hospital and totally by accident she saw the O.R. list for today and noticed that an acquaintance was booked for an abortion. Confidentiality is a big thing to breach; does one breach it in this instance? Can she seek out this woman after looking at a list that she wasn’t privy to look at? We’ve been praying hard all morning. What more can be done? :bighanky:

Dearest Casey,

My prayers are for this patient if she did indeed suffer an abortion today, as well as, if she has suffered a miscarriage, and for her precious child.

Prayers, too, for your dear friend who found herself so distraught that she needed your support today.

If this patient did suffer the loss of her child through the hands of the abortionist today, please know that the precious child had your prayers with her as she died. I believe that these little children can know after their deaths that people were praying for them.

Know, too, that your prayers can be a help for the unknown mother, even though she does not know anyone was praying for her. Prayers offered for mothers undergoing abortion may be the start of their healing. Keep praying for this dear mother in case she did abort her baby, as sufferings from post abortion syndrome is very real.

Hopefully, your dear friend did not mention the name of the mother who was undergoing the surgery today. Encourage her to be sure and keep the mother’s name private.

Please encourage your dear friend to speak with her priest. She may suffer from the fact that someone she knows may have experienced an abortion. This can be very painful and very hard to keep from dwelling on. Her priest can help her through this distressing information.

Your friend also needs to know from her Diocese Respect Life Director or organizations like Nurses for Life, Priests for Life, or Helpers of God’s Precious Infants - how to work in a facility that allows abortion procedures.

Nurses for Life nursesforlife.org/
Priests for Life priestsforlife.org/
Helpers of God’s Precious Infants helpersbrooklynny.org/mission2.htm

Working in a facility that allows abortion procedures is different that praying outside of abortion mills. God can find ways that we can touch people’s lives. Please share these organizations with your dear friend.

May God allow your friend to have peace tonight, knowing she did what she could do and that was to pray.

I hope you are at peace, too. Many of the posts blasted you and your friend. God knows you meant no harm and neither did your friend.

Saying a person some place was likely scheduled for an abortion today… really said what we all already know about today… and tomorrow… and the next day.

Our Lady of Guadalupe ~Patroness of the Unborn ~ Pray for us.

May all mother’s schedule for abortions tomorrow have a change of heart. May those who work in the abortion industry have a change of heart. May God watch over and bless those who pray outside abortion mills and those who work in a medical facility that sadly offers abortion along with actual health care.