How to intercept an abortion---confidentiality issue

[RoseMary131]

Originally Posted by RoseMary131

Casey’s dear friend did not call her on the phone to gossip about a patient.

Actually, that’s exactly what she did.

Casey’s friend did not call to gossip about the patient. She did not call to give idle talk about the patient. She did not call to harm the the patient, patient’s name, her reputation, or her family. Casey’s did not call for Gossip. Her friend called for her own spiritual help and for spiritual help in the form of prayer for a patient she knew.

No one knows if Casey’s friend shared this woman’s name… only that the woman was “an acquaintance”. Feeling someone she knew was about to undergo the turmoil of abortion, the woman was distressed. She needed spiritual aid in the form of prayers and reached out to Casey.

That does not equal gossip.

Originally Posted by RoseMary131

Maybe one day this friend is fired, hopefully none of our friends experience being fired. Being fired does not always mean shame.

In this case, it would be. Working in a hospital commands an ethic appropriate to the medical field. To be fired because one didn’t live up to that expectation is indeed a shame. By studying her catechism, or by consulting her priest, she will learn that.

There could be many reasons a person is fired from a medical field. No one needs to feel shame if they are fired for any reasons. Some people are appropriately fired, others inappropriately fired. Not meeting the expectations of a specific community - does not mean shame.

(Although some people may feel a deep emotion of shame - of being unworthy, deeply embarrassed, or deep disgrace, shame is not really a good emotion.)

If I was fired because I asked Casey to pray for me and for someone at the hospital today who I thought was in danger of experiencing an abortion - and I was fired - I would not feel shame. I would say, “I’m sorry to cause problems for the hospital staff in my asking for prayers which violated hospital rules.” I would not be sorry for asking for spiritual aid from Casey.

I would also recognize that working in a place where my spiritual life was to remain dormant, it is best that I be fired. I would not feel shame. I would not feel guilt for asking for prayers.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church and priest do not teach one needs to feel shame.

Casey did not share with us if her friend even told her the name of the patient. Her friend is to be considered as having maintained patient confidentiality at this point. Her friend has asked for Casey’s prayer. Casey asked us for advise. At this point, we only know Casey’s friend was distressed and reached out to Casey for prayer.

Most likely Casey’s friend has a sense of love for this patient and does not want the patient to become one more lady suffering with the damage of post abortion syndrome.

Casey’s friend - and anyone who works in a hospital that performs abortions - or anyone who learns of a possible abortion - can feel misplaced guilt. Many people who suffer after abortion are the other people in the mother’s life who wonder - “Could I have helped?” - “What if I did something different?”

Post abortion healing programs can help mothers who have lost their babies, fathers who lost their babies, grandparents and even siblings of abortive children often need post abortive healing. Sometimes people wait 30 or 50 years to seek healing in programs like Project Rachel.

People who work any place in a hospital who offer abortion may want healing.

Project Rachel hopeafterabortion.com/

Sometimes friends and roommates suffer … even as years go by… they say “I couldn’t stop her.” “What if…”

We want Casey and her friend to know that prayer in this situation was the most she could do… unless God lead her to the lady… and unless God helped the lady to speak out … then it is PRAYERS… and prayers are powerful.

Prayers can actually help the mother begin to heal, even if she doesn’t know anyone is praying (even if the procedure was something other than abortion). If a baby is aborted, the child knows someone was praying for her at her death.

Casey’s friend should not feel shame.

God may be preparing Casey’s friend for if this lady may someday share with her in a different setting that she had an abortion. God may have used this to prepare for someone else sharing their abortion. God has a plan with what Casey’s friend saw. Today, it was just to pray in case there was an abortion. We, too, were able to pray for this mother as well.

Here’s information on talking to someone who shares that they had an abortion.
hopeafterabortion.com/?p=103

 

[severus68]

The part you don’t seem to understand is that you are NOT within your rights to approach them and talk to them. If that were the case, you would be lining up at hospital OR waiting rooms chomping at the bit waiting for opportunities to approach them and talk to them. But we don’t do that, do we? Because it’s not our right to do so. You can err on whatever side you want, but you wouldn’t be working in the healthcare field very long.

Exactly.

 

[severus68]

Casey’s friend did not call to gossip about the patient. She did not call to give idle talk about the patient. She did not call to harm the the patient, patient’s name, her reputation, or her family. Casey’s did not call for Gossip. Her friend called for her own spiritual help and for spiritual help in the form of prayer for a patient she knew.

No one knows if Casey’s friend shared this woman’s name… only that the woman was “an acquaintance”. Feeling someone she knew was about to undergo the turmoil of abortion, the woman was distressed. She needed spiritual aid in the form of prayers and reached out to Casey.

That does not equal gossip.

There could be many reasons a person is fired from a medical field. No one needs to feel shame if they are fired for any reasons. Some people are appropriately fired, others inappropriately fired. Not meeting the expectations of a specific community - does not mean shame.

(Although some people may feel a deep emotion of shame - of being unworthy, deeply embarrassed, or deep disgrace, shame is not really a good emotion.)

If I was fired because I asked Casey to pray for me and for someone at the hospital today who I thought was in danger of experiencing an abortion - and I was fired - I would not feel shame. I would say, “I’m sorry to cause problems for the hospital staff in my asking for prayers which violated hospital rules.” I would not be sorry for asking for spiritual aid from Casey.

I would also recognize that working in a place where my spiritual life was to remain dormant, it is best that I be fired. I would not feel shame. I would not feel guilt for asking for prayers.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church and priest do not teach one needs to feel shame.

Casey did not share with us if her friend even told her the name of the patient. Her friend is to be considered as having maintained patient confidentiality at this point. Her friend has asked for Casey’s prayer. Casey asked us for advise. At this point, we only know Casey’s friend was distressed and reached out to Casey for prayer.

Most likely Casey’s friend has a sense of love for this patient and does not want the patient to become one more lady suffering with the damage of post abortion syndrome.

Casey’s friend - and anyone who works in a hospital that performs abortions - or anyone who learns of a possible abortion - can feel misplaced guilt. Many people who suffer after abortion are the other people in the mother’s life who wonder - “Could I have helped?” - “What if I did something different?”

Post abortion healing programs can help mothers who have lost their babies, fathers who lost their babies, grandparents and even siblings of abortive children often need post abortive healing. Sometimes people wait 30 or 50 years to seek healing in programs like Project Rachel.

People who work any place in a hospital who offer abortion may want healing.

Project Rachel hopeafterabortion.com/

Sometimes friends and roommates suffer … even as years go by… they say “I couldn’t stop her.” “What if…”

We want Casey and her friend to know that prayer in this situation was the most she could do… unless God lead her to the lady… and unless God helped the lady to speak out … then it is PRAYERS… and prayers are powerful.

Prayers can actually help the mother begin to heal, even if she doesn’t know anyone is praying (even if the procedure was something other than abortion). If a baby is aborted, the child knows someone was praying for her at her death.

Casey’s friend should not feel shame.

God may be preparing Casey’s friend for if this lady may someday share with her in a different setting that she had an abortion. God may have used this to prepare for someone else sharing their abortion. God has a plan with what Casey’s friend saw. Today, it was just to pray in case there was an abortion. We, too, were able to pray for this mother as well.

Here’s information on talking to someone who shares that they had an abortion.
hopeafterabortion.com/?p=103

If all the OP and her friend wanted were prayers, the thread would have been about asking for prayers without revealing any information other than “I heard from a friend that an acquaintance may be having an abortion. Not sure of all the facts but I am asking for prayers please”.

Being fired is demoralising and people need their jobs.

 

[RoseMary131]

This is certainly a breach of privacy, of which immediate dismissal can and does occur. The hospitals are all connected by computer systems now. She wouldn’t have to even work in or near the OR area to bring up the list of scheduled surgeries for the day.

It’s also a breach of HIPPA for a hospital worker to look at THEIR OWN or their family’s record. Many dismissals are occurring these day for this.

What the OP’s friend did was VERY wrong. End of story.

The OP did not say that her friend brought up the list of scheduled surgeries.

We only know she accidentally saw the OR list…

Here are possible ways it could have occurred by accident for someone…Maybe they are helping the nurse at the desk and saw the computer or print out. Maybe they are helping hospital staff with computer problems. Maybe they are helping another staff member with something that involved their use of the OR list.

It is told to us that this friend saw by accident. From there we know she prayed with the OP. We do not know if she told the OP the name of the person in her prayer request - just an “acquaintance”. Asking for prayers for an anonymous “someone” coming to our hospital does not break confidentiality.

 

[RoseMary131]

If all the OP and her friend wanted were prayers, the thread would have been about asking for prayers without revealing any information other than “I heard from a friend that an acquaintance may be having an abortion. Not sure of all the facts but I am asking for prayers please”.

Being fired is demoralising and people need their jobs.

The OP’s friend was in distress. She called the OP. They prayed together. They wanted prayers from each other.

The OP asked us if there was anything else that could be done besides praying. She stated they had been praying all morning. She looked to us for advise if they should do something along with their prayers.

The thread was not asking us to pray… however, we could obviously pray.

The OP wanted to know if there was anything else that could be done. The OP stated that she was aware “Confidentiality is a big thing to breach”.

The OP then asked, “does one breach it in this instance?” To which the answer is “No.”

The OP then asked, “Can she seek out this woman after looking at a list that she wasn’t privy to look at?” The first answer is “No, she can not seek her out.” The remaining answer is that “If God leads the hospital worker to this woman by means of her co-works, supervisor, etc. sending her to this woman AND the woman speaks out to her about the issue - then can can speak back. She can not begin to seek out this woman and address anything that the woman does not share personally with her.”

Many people choose not to answer the OP’s two questions:

1. “Does one breach it in this instance?”
2. “Can she seek out this woman after looking at a list that she wasn’t privy to look at?”

Most people just slammed the friend who needed the OP’s prayers for herself and the “acquaintance”. Many people slammed the OP (who was also in distress) for asking her questions.

Answers could have been given to the OP in love.

Being fired is demoralising and people need their jobs.

You may feel being fired is demoralizing.

“Demoralizing” is an emotion, a feeling. Emotions are personal to each person.

It is not a blanket emotion to be demoralized for being fired. How and why a person is fired will play a role in the emotion they feel. Not everyone is going to have the same feeling as you. Some people will not feel demoralized when they are fired.

Some people need their job. Some people do not need their job.

 

[epan]

Possibly true, but the broader point is if we come to possess information of a mortal interest, regardless of whether or not we should have it, how do we respond?

Again, if you eavesdrop (and immoral act) and find out a woman is planning on killing her husband, how do you respond? Say as Catholics we are only concerned with just laws, I’d saw the response is going to be the same when dealing with abortion.

However, as Mary said, we do not know for sure if she was having an abortion in this case.

I agree with taking a moral position, as long as one is willing to accept the consequences, personally. As a former US combat warrior, and now a military trauma surgeon, I also can tell you that I also subscribe to the idea of surviving today, in order to fight again tomorrow. It is not black and white, all of the time. I once had to exercise considerable self discipline as I watched enemies load rockets and RPG’s into wagons, and onto burros, cover them with rugs or blankets, and then evacuate their stronghold right in front of me. Officially, they had no weapons, and they were not doing what they were doing.

While I appreciate the value of saving a single life, indeed that is my focus moment by moment when I am working, I also think that the abortion struggle is at once a political battle, and a personal one. I would encourage anyone to intervene personally, wherever possible. But, I seriously doubt that approaching a woman who has already scheduled her abortion, on the day of the procedure, would be productive.

 

[RoseMary131]

If that were the case, you would be lining up at hospital OR waiting rooms chomping at the bit waiting for opportunities to approach them and talk to them. But we don’t do that, do we?

Remember as Pro-Life People, we do not do as you described above even at abortion mills.

We do not line up outside of abortion mills “chomping at the bit”. It is with peace and prayer that we gather together. We go to do God’s work to bring peace and love to these mothers, babies, and families.

We also do not go into the abortion mills, we stand on public property.

If a group did choose to hold prayer vigils outside of a hospital that provides abortion, they too would gather in prayer. They would peacefully stand on public property near the hospital offering prayer and support to those who drove past. Any one who stopped to talk before going in for an abortion would be met with love.

 

[RoseMary131]

But, I seriously doubt that approaching a woman who has already scheduled her abortion, on the day of the procedure, would be productive.

Thank you for all you do. Your work is appreciated as a combat warrior and as a military trauma surgeon.

However, you are well mistaken about what can happen on the day of an abortion procedure. I am so happy to share this with you. You will rejoice with this news!

Please take a look at 40 Days for Life. This is an international prayer vigil for 40 days that occurs twice a year. There are a HUGE number of babies that are KNOWN to be saved along with their dear mothers and their whole family from the EVIL of abortion.

Please do not underestimate this powerful out reach.

40daysforlife.com/

After the first 40 Days for Life campaign in our town, we now keep prayer warriors outside our local abortion mill on every abortion day. Lives are saved. Babies are spared. Mothers and fathers do not have to live with the regret for the rest of their lives. Mothers leave HAPPY.

We host baby showers for them. Mothers and babies return to our events. Praise the Lord! Praying outside of abortion mills changes Hearts!!! All the Glory goes to God for allowing the mothers to Hear His Voice and keep their child!!!

This happens on the day of their abortion appointment. This happens right outside the driveway of the abortion mill.

A situation as the OP described is different in that the OP’s friend was a hospital employee. Most likely all she could do was pray… unless her work place actually lead her to the woman and the woman opened the discussion and the worker responded to her leads with love.

If you ever have a proper situation to address someone about to undergo abortion… and you know you place your words in God’s hands… Do not fear… your kindness can help the mother. She may still abort, but you would have offered God’s kindness and love to her.

Please come out and pray with us for 1 hour on this next 40 Days campaign. The next campaign is Sept 25 - Nov. 3. Soon the locations around the world will be listed on the webpage. Come pray quietly and peacefully with us. 40daysforlife.com/

 

[severus68]

The OP’s friend was in distress. She called the OP. They prayed together.

Most people do not have the luxury of not needing their jobs. Whether they are at fault or not, most people are demoralised, even devastated at the loss of their jobs.

 

[RoseMary131]

The OP has not come back to clarify. Yes, the OP was asking what more could be done and the OP shared the TMI that her friend wrongly did. The OP did not make this an abortion thread and people told her/him the truth. No one even knows if it was in fact an abortion.

I am sure many would love to hear about your anti- abortion work but perhaps in another thread.

Most people do not have the luxury of not needing their jobs. Whether they are at fault or not, most people are demoralised, even devastated at the loss of their jobs.

What you called “too much information” is a friend working at a hospital saw an OR list. We learned NO information from this message. “What if a lady is having an abortion today?”

It is a sad story that is actually happening over and over today, right now. (This year the worldwide estimate of abortion is 25,384,627 million babies killed and that many mothers destroyed though abortion.)

The OP did not make this an abortion thread and people told her/him the truth. No one even knows if it was in fact an abortion.

I’m not sure why you wrote “The OP did not make this an abortion thread.” The OP did, in fact, make this an abortion thread. Even the title tells us this is an abortion thread in Moral Theology.

Saying," people told her/him the truth" is your opinion. People added lots of things to the post… people added their assumptions that the OP knew the patient, that the OP knew the patient’s name, that the OP’s friend should ask the head nurse to remove her from the abortion procedure because she knew the patient, etc.

The OP wanted answers to those two questions which could have opinions for answers. The questions could be answered with Legal and/or Moral answers in this Moral Theology Forum. Depending on the answers, the legal and moral answers could be the same or conflict.

Answers on CAF are often “just people’s feelings, thoughts, ideas, etc.” no matter what the question. Just ask “anything” on CFA… see how many different opinions you get for “the truth”.

No one even knows if it was in fact an abortion.

It is a fact that we don’t know if the patient is having an abortion. However, we can tell the OP that her friend should not breech confidentiality at any point - abortion or not an abortion. We can tell her the hospital worker should not seek this patient out - abortion or not an abortion. We can tell her if this woman shares information, then that is a way she can spend time with her - even if it is a year from now and the lady shares that she aborted a child.

Its also a fact when people post information or questions on the internet that WE don’t know if any of it is fact. People give answers on CFA… as if… the questions and statements are facts.

I am sure many would love to hear about your anti- abortion work but perhaps in another thread.

If someone opens a thread on Living the Gospel of Life, or narrowed down to be about how to help mothers in Crisis Pregnancy and I notice it, I would be happy to share ideas of how each of us can help mothers through our parish, Pregnancy Centers, prayers at home, help on the internet, in the work place, as a friend to an expected mother, prayer vigils outside abortion mill, and Post Abortive Healing, etc.

We’ve been praying hard all morning. What more can be done? :bighanky:

The OP asked, “What more can be done?” Ideas in the areas of living the Gospel of Life in the area of Crisis Pregnancy are many answers of “what more can be done” for the OP, her friend, or anyone who wants to know how to be prepared during Crisis Pregnancy or for Post-Abortive Healing needs. The links I sent on the OP’s thread can be used by the OP and the OP’s friend for her question “What more can be done?”

Most people do not have the luxury of not needing their jobs. Whether they are at fault or not, most people are demoralised, even devastated at the loss of their jobs.

People can be devastated without being demoralized in losing their job. Not everyone experiences the emotion of devastation when fired. This was originally from a post with the poor advice saying the OP should stay away from her friend because her friend will shamefully be fired one day.

I pray the OP’s friend is not fired - ever. I pray that those who are fired, for whatever reason, do not experience the emotions of shame, being demoralize, or devastated. May all those who find themselves fired - find a way to Trust in God that He will guide them to a new job. I pray all those in need of a job today are lead by God to that need. I pray those who suffer from the emotions of feeling shame, devastation, or being demoralize will regain their self worth as a child of God.

She’ll end up shamefully fired one day, and you don’t want to get dragged down with her.

Maybe one day this friend is fired, hopefully none of our friends experience being fired. Being fired does not always mean shame. Being friends with a person who is fired does not mean “they will drag you down”.

 

[Rence]

Casey’s friend did not call to gossip about the patient. She did not call to give idle talk about the patient. She did not call to harm the the patient, patient’s name, her reputation, or her family.

No, she just violated the patient’s privacy and talked about her outside of work. That is idle gossip, pure and simple. She knew she was limited in her actions, otherwise she would have acted. But she knew it wasn’t allowed, appropriate or legal, so she took the information home and called her friend to talk about it.
RoseMary131;11113182:

There could be many reasons a person is fired from a medical field.

The reasons for this hypothetical (or very real possibility if anyone finds out or if she continues her inappropriate behavior) firing is quite clear and it’s nothing to pat one’s self on the back for.

 

[Rence]

The OP did not say that her friend brought up the list of scheduled surgeries.

We only know she accidentally saw the OR list…

And then she took the information she had home with her and got on the phone with a friend and shared it. Not appropriate. She should have left that information in the back of her mind, said a prayer for the woman, and not ever said anything to a friend (or anyone) about it.

It’s quite possible she acquired the information by accident. That’s not the point. Everyone who works at a hospital has to sign a confidentiality agreement, and included is the obtaining of information by mistake is STILL confidential.

 

[Rence]

What you called “too much information” is a friend working at a hospital saw an OR list. We learned NO information from this message. “What if a lady is having an abortion today?”

No, WE don’t have such information but the OP certainly has information that an acquaintance of theirs was scheduled for an ‘abortion’. It does not matter if the friend evern told her who it was. She told her enough information. The friend should NOT NOT NOT have gotten on the phone and called her to tell her that someone they knew was scheduled for ANY kind of procedure, whether it was a pacemaker placement, ‘abortion’ or hemorrhoid repair. The friend of the OP is in serious violation of privacy laws and had better stop what she is doing before she gets caught and gets fired, and hopefully doesn’t drag the OP down with her. If supervisors find out that the two are discussing patients outside of work on the phone (and no, it doesn’t matter who called who), they can both be fired.

The OP asked for advice on what to do with the information she came across, thanks to her friend’s indiscretion. Nothing more can be done. She should pray for the patient, and then put that information out of her mind because there is nothing ethically that can be done and STOP talking with her friend about patients and their procedures. The OP would be very wise to end such phone or face-to-face conversations in the future before she gets sucked into the vortex.

 

[RoseMary131]

No, she just violated the patient’s privacy and talked about her outside of work. That is idle gossip, pure and simple. She knew she was limited in her actions, otherwise she would have acted. But she knew it wasn’t allowed, appropriate or legal, so she took the information home and called her friend to talk about it.

She talked about a “patient” who would have “an abortion in her hospital” nothing else… we don’t know that she talked about the name of the person. She did so for being distraught - the OP prayed with her.

Maybe she felt she could morally and legally pray with a friend about the pains in working in a hospital without violating any patients’ privacy.

Speaking about the pains and the sorrows you feel for those who come to the hospital is not idle gossip. People are allowed to say, "A patient is having a procedure that troubles me (abortion, heart transplant, liver transplant, etc.) can you pray with me. That is not gossip.

Originally Posted by RoseMary131
There could be many reasons a person is fired from a medical field.

The reasons for this hypothetical (or very real possibility if anyone finds out or if she continues her inappropriate behavior) firing is quite clear and it’s nothing to pat one’s self on the back for.

The rest of that above quote was: "No one needs to feel shame if they are fired for any reasons. … Not meeting the expectations of a specific community - does not mean shame. I wrote it because of the statement in another post about “shame when losing a job.”

Yes, in a medical community people can get fired for sharing confidentiality - patient’s privacy. We don’t know the OP’s friend shared anything accept a possible procedure that takes place in that hospital. The hospital allows abortions. The worker said that procedure was listed.

I pray she does not get fire. If she does get fired for asking for prayers from her friend, the OP, - I pray she does not feel shame.

If saying “A hospital patient is scheduled for an abortion - friend, please pray” gets a person fire… its not shameful. The internet question was “is there anything besides praying?”

Facing abortion as a “real event for a real person that you know” - can be extremely upsetting. Many people will need to seek prayers from friends when they beleive someone they know may possibly abort.

As abortion seeps deeper into our world’s society as “health care”, more and more people are going to walk up to this Ugly Beast of abortion and be distraught. They are going to experience something they have never thought would be in the same building as them.

For those working with their health care or medical care career or job… careers they chose to “help” people… they can feel like a force of Evil ran over them when they come face to face with this Ugly Beast of abortion.

Many of those people are going to turn to prayer. Many are going to turn to their friends to pray for them and all patients who walk through the door of a health or medical facility to kill their precious child.

As a doctor or hospital worker may say, “Pray for our Cancer Patients”, “Pray for our Pediatric Heart Transplant Patients.”… so now, those in the medical community may be saying to their friends or prayer group “Pray for the Mothers who come to our hospital for abortion. Pray they do not abort. Pray they heal from Post Abortion Syndrome.” This is like the person who says “Pray for someone I know who I notice is a Cancer Patient at my hospital.”

Our Lady of Guadalupe ~ Patroness of the Unborn ~ Pray for us.

St. Catherine of Sweden ~Patroness of Miscarriage Prevention ~ Pray for us.

St. Luke ~ Patron Doctors, Physicians, Surgeons ~ Pray for us.

 

[RoseMary131]

No, WE don’t have such information but the OP certainly has information that an acquaintance of theirs was scheduled for an ‘abortion’. It does not matter if the friend evern told her who it was. She told her enough information. The friend should NOT NOT NOT have gotten on the phone and called her to tell her that someone they knew was scheduled for ANY kind of procedure, whether it was a pacemaker placement, ‘abortion’ or hemorrhoid repair.

We do not know if the OP knows this patient.

The OP did not say she knew the patient or was an acquaintance of the patient.

The OP did not say that the worker said they both knew the patient.

We only know that the hospital worker knew the patient. The OP’s friend is an acquaintance with the patient.

The OP is not involved in knowing anything else… as far as she writes.

So, … What we know is the hospital worker told the OP that someone the hospital worker knows is having a procedure… in this case… she calls it an abortion.

Maybe it is illegal to say, “At the hospital where I work, patients are seen for abortion, etc. Someone I know may have one today.”

May God bless this patient and all hospital patients and may they feel His Peace.

 

[Rence]

She talked about a “patient” who would have “an abortion in her hospital” nothing else… we don’t know that she talked about the name of the person.

I can understand her saying that she came across information accidentally and wanting to pray about it. But that’s NOT what happened. She told the OP that ‘an acquaintance’ was scheduled for an abortion, and that, she should have not done and was a big breach in patient confidentiality. She doesn’t have to name the patient. The fact that it was an acquaintance is more than enough to get her in trouble. That crossed the line from “oh let’s just pray” to gossip.
RoseMary131;11114555:

Speaking about the pains and the sorrows you feel for those who come to the hospital is not idle gossip

. People are allowed to say, "A patient is having a procedure that troubles me (abortion, heart transplant, liver transplant, etc.) can you pray with me. That is not gossip.

It’s not gossip unless you start talking about the patient, and saying things as “an acquaintance”. Then it becomes a breach of confidentiality and warrants disciplinary action. You don’t need to agree or disagree because that’s frankly exactly the way it is.

Yes, in a medical community people can get fired for sharing confidentiality - patient’s privacy. We don’t know the OP’s friend shared anything accept

a possible procedure that takes place in that hospital. The hospital allows abortions. The worker said that procedure was listed.

And the OP knows it was an acquaintance. Too much information.

I pray she does not get fire. If she does get fired for asking for prayers from her friend, the OP, - I pray she does not feel shame.

If she gets fired, it won’t be for praying for a patient, or asking a friend to pray for a patient. It will be because she told her friend that an acquaintance was scheduled for a ‘insert here’ procedure.

If saying “A hospital patient is scheduled for an abortion - friend, please pray” gets a person fire… its not shameful. The internet question was “is there anything besides praying?”

First of all, that’s not what she said. She didn’t say “a hospital patient”. She said “an acquaintance”. In addition to the fact that “scheduled for an abortion” may not be what it was about it all, and therefore is simply idle gossip. Let’s change that to something more appropriate: “I’m worried about a patient, please pray for him/her”. That’s enough to get the prayers needed without breaking any laws or being unethical. In addition, that’s not what the OP wanted answered. She wanted to know if there was anything more that could be done. Simple answer: No.

 

[Rence]

We do not know if the OP knows this patient.

It doesn’t matter. The person who called her knew the patient. That’s bad enough. It’s worse if the OP knows the patient as well.
RoseMary131;11114598:

The OP is not involved in knowing anything else… as far as she writes.

She is involved in an inappropriate phone conversation that she should have ended immediately, and should not do again in the future.

Maybe it is illegal to say, “At the hospital where I work, patients are seen for abortion, etc. Someone I know may have one today.”

It is.

 

[RoseMary131]

She doesn’t have to name the patient. The fact that it was an acquaintance is more than enough to get her in trouble. That crossed the line from “oh let’s just pray” to gossip.

Gossip is a sin. When we gossip we need to confess it. There is no need to confess the sin of gossip in this situation, “I told a friend that an acquaintance was scheduled for an abortion at my work. My friend prayed with me for this woman and child.” That statement is not gossip. It is not the sin of gossip.

It’s not gossip unless you start talking about the patient, and saying things as “an acquaintance”. Then it becomes a breach of confidentiality and warrants disciplinary action. You don’t need to agree or disagree because that’s frankly exactly the way it is.
And the OP knows it was an acquaintance. Too much information.

A breach of confidentiality and the sin of gossip are not the same. In this case, it seems the friend would want to find out if the hospital she works considers “an acquaintance” as a breach of confidentiality. If so, she would want to refrain from using “an acquaintance” in any way connected with that hospital.

If she gets fired, it won’t be for praying for a patient, or asking a friend to pray for a patient. It will be because she told her friend that an acquaintance was scheduled for a ‘insert here’ procedure.

So, the friend asks if her hospital has a policy that considers “an acquaintance was scheduled for a procedure.” as a breech of confidentiality.

First of all, that’s not what she said. She didn’t say “a hospital patient”. She said “an acquaintance”. In addition to the fact that “scheduled for an abortion” may not be what it was about it all, and therefore is simply idle gossip. Let’s change that to something more appropriate: “I’m worried about a patient, please pray for him/her”. That’s enough to get the prayers needed without breaking any laws or being unethical. In addition, that’s not what the OP wanted answered. She wanted to know if there was anything more that could be done. Simple answer: No.

A friend says “An acquaintance is scheduled for an abortion.” She takes that to confession to ask Father if it was a sin of gossip. Father ask did she do this to harm an acquaintance. She says, “No Father, I wished no harm by my words. Father I sought my friend because I was in distress that this acquaintance would be harmed by the sin of abortion.” Father says, “What did you do next?” “We prayed for her,” the friend replies. I do not think that is the sin of gossip.

As for the OP, you are correct, the OP did not come to CAF Moral Theology Forum to ask us to pray. (We can, of course, pray for all those concerned.)

The OP’s friend and the OP connected with prayer.

The OP connected with us on CAF, Moral Theology Forum to ask us what more could be done besides prayers.

Answers to the OP could have been “prayer is the only thing to offer this person.” ALL people could have spoken with kindness to the OP advising her to tell her friend that it may be against hospital confidentiality for workers to tell anyone that “an un-named acquaintance is receiving care at the hospital.”

Instead of using kindness, some posters to the Moral Theology Forum posted hurtful statements. Even when someone feels another person has done something wrong - shared “an acquaintance is having an abortion.” we still treat them with respect. These statements are not loving or kind.

Hi, everyone. Received a distressed phone call from a friend this morning. …What more can be done? :bighanky:

The friend should be fired.

It’s out of line and completely unacceptable.

… your friend has done a very bad thing by bringing this woman’s private affairs to you and by default to the world!. Your friend should be sacked.

If the Canadian press picked up on casey zia’s post, the headline would read…ANTI ABORTION CATHOLIC HEALTHWORKERS LEAK PATIENT DETAILS…What do you think that would do for our pro-life cause? Not a lot I would suspect.

… it was not an accident that she read it. nor was it an accident that she picked up the phone and told casey zia, who picked up her laptop and told the WORLD! This sort of behaviour damages the pro-life movement…BIG TIME!

By sharing here at CAF you break HIPPA rules guaranteeing the privacy of medical information.

Stay away from her. She’ll end up shamefully fired one day, and you don’t want to get dragged down with her.

One person states something about abortion and is blasted by another person.

Originally Posted by april32010 …if this was an abortion, it isn’t medical treatment .its murder

and receives this reply of sarcasm

She can call the police.
Tho I don’t think this doctor is doing anything against the law.

These are examples of how the OP came in distress :bighanky: to Catholic Answers Forums - Moral Theology Forum to ask for advise. She received a lot of unkindness from many who posted. UN-necessary unkindness.

1 Peter 3:15
Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope, but do it with gentleness and reverence, keeping your conscience clear.

 

[maryjk]

Gossip is a sin. When we gossip we need to confess it. There is no need to confess the sin of gossip in this situation, “I told a friend that an acquaintance was scheduled for an abortion at my work. My friend prayed with me for this woman and child.” That statement is not gossip. It is not the sin of gossip.

Actually she should confess, "I reveled confidential information about a patient at my hospital. It was for a good reason, I wanted to have a friend pray for this patient. But I know that the ends don’t justify the means.

A breach of confidentiality and the sin of gossip are not the same. I**n this case, it seems the friend would want to find out if the hospital she works considers “an acquaintance” as a breach of confidentiality. ** If so, she would want to refrain from using “an acquaintance” in any way connected with that hospital.

Yes, she needs to find out, if she talks about a patient, without naming the patient, but admitting that she knows this person, is a breach. Of course, by asking, she should also admit she has already done this.

So, the friend asks if her hospital has a policy that considers “an acquaintance was scheduled for a procedure.” as a breech of confidentiality.

A friend says “An acquaintance is scheduled for an abortion.” She takes that to confession to ask Father if it was a sin of gossip. Father ask did she do this to harm an acquaintance. She says, “No Father, I wished no harm by my words. Father I sought my friend because I was in distress that this acquaintance would be harmed by the sin of abortion.” Father says, “What did you do next?” “We prayed for her,” the friend replies. I do not think that is the sin of gossip.

Doing harm doesn’t have anything to do with it. She talked about patient.

A friend of mine is the wife of a doctor. The doctor is a surgeon and performed surgery on my knee. Before I went under, if I wanted my friend to know about the surgery from the doctor, I had to tell him it was alright to talk to her.

Otherwise he couldn’t even tell her that I was there. He couldn’t tell her that I had even showed up.

It may be hard to understand if you don’t work in the medical field. But talking about anything that could ever, somehow reveal something about a patient is wrong.

 

[RoseMary131]

Yes, she needs to find out, if she talks about a patient, without naming the patient, but admitting that she knows this person, is a breach. ** Of course, by asking, she should also admit she has already done this**.

So, you think if a person asks for clarification at their place of work, they must also list everything they may have possibly done wrong?

Are there any other jobs, if one has made a mistake, misunderstood a policy, broken a rule while under distress, etc. that employees should be in line to admit all of these issues to their boss?

Maybe we don’t really think she and all workers everywhere need to stand in line at the work place to admit all our mistakes, failures, lapses of judgement.

If OP’s friend did something wrong, and her place of work does not allow one to say, “Today, an acquaintance of mine came to my work place to possibly have an abortion. I was very distressed and called my Dear Friend to pray with me. The pain of abortion is very real and I was so distressed to think she might have to actually suffer this horrible pain that lasts a life time. My place of work, may consider me in breech of patient confidentiality.” Maybe we can help her in a kind and gentle way.

Maybe we can be a little kinder on those who work in the medical community when they slip up and say “acquaintance is schedule for an abortion at my hospital.” Coming “face to face” with the reality of abortion can be extremely distressing.

Maybe we on Catholic Answers Forums in the Apologetic, Moral Theology Forum can pray that she finds a different way of dealing with the distress in the future instead of using the term “acquaintance” and be able to express herself without this failure.

Maybe we can pray that she feels God’s Peace holding her and not feel us condemning her.