How to live in Mortal Sin

[Monica4316]

I went to confession yesterday and asked the priest to explain to me mortal sins, he said that it would increase my scrupulosity and that any teaching that is not based on God’s Mercy is not a Christian teaching. After confession, the scrupulosity in me made me ask him if I could take Communion, he said that I could have done that even before confession and this priest is no ordinary one, he is specialized in these matters and told me to stop visiting any website that preaches that God is not Mercy.

And of course, after the Mass, I run into another priest, and the same story all over again, I fear that they will kick me out if continue with asking about these matters.

Bottom line, Jesus is not bound to our rules when he judges us, other Christians do not have confession, He won’t throw them in hell just like that, He performs miracles on atheists and non Christians, His ways are beyond our 3 dimensional understanding, He is the the absolute Being.

I really hope that a priest gives a definitive answer and closes this thread.

JosephHope, scrupulosity is different from trying to have a more sensitive conscience. If you struggle with scrupulosity, I’d recommend having a spiritual director who is also your confessor, at least a permanent confessor.

Many of your questions have been dealt with in encyclicals and Church documents. For example with Confession and non Catholics.

Confession is the ordinary way to be forgiven and we are saved in the Church.

But if someone doesn’t have access to Confession, through no fault of their own, yet they’re well disposed, God can grant them perfect contrition, which also remits mortal sins.

If they are not Catholic, they’re not in the Church through which God gives graces for salvation… yet any graces non Catholics receive still come through the Church. Though we can’t say that non Catholics as a group are going to Heaven, we don’t judge particular souls, because there’s such a thing as invincible ignorance - that’s ignorance that’s not the person’s fault. God knows who has it and who doesn’t. If they do, they are well disposed to receive a grace to know the Church before death, or to have perfect contrition, etc. We leave particular souls up to God, but we do need to pray and evangelise.

We don’t need to WORRY about such things. Just trust God, pray, pray for souls one problem with scrupulosity, which I know because I am scrupulous too, is needing an answer to everything. Just submit it to the teaching of the Church, trust in God’s goodness, and let it go just intend to believe what the Church believes, and you’re ok, and if you’d like to learn about it, you can read some documents.

As for God doing miracles, He can do that anywhere He wants, because these are actual graces and ANYONE can receive an actual grace. think of St Paul who received a miracle for his conversion.

 

[Monica4316]

I’m here sir.

Yes, I simply should go to confession. I’ve had a sudden fortunate turn away from my own personal “cardinal sin”, and feel more in control even if I struggle in other areas of my life. Those can exist, my ignoring of major Catholic standards to fulfill pleasures of sin cannot.

It really irritates me how there’s only one or two times I can confess at the churches around me. Saturday afternoon, or Monday evening. I wish confession was more available.

I appreciate your responses, even if, in my love of theology, I think you’re a little fluffy. I think multiple good points have been made in this discussion, and it’s the type of thing I gladly welcome.

You seem reluctant to accept that Catholics who believe and are struggling with sin can go to hell. It’s certainly possible, and it’s spelled out why and how in the cathecism. Did I seal my own judgement? I think I feared, and fear, for my soul, but I did not condemn myself to hell. The list given as far as factors that, as far as we know, can be considered in God’s judgement as far as if you’re in true mortal sin. While they can be considered, they’re something I should never take for granted, or rely on. I might have bad established habits, I might have psychological issues with medications, or massive guilt that clouds me from acting in the way my soul desires… all of othese are “on the list”… but, for stated severe sins in Christinaity, I think it’s important to keep the mindset of not falling into a mental trap of explaining things away, which is a pretty negative aspect of sinful human nature. Hold the standard, and base yourself on the standard. Obey by action, to the best of your ability. If you cannot obey, it’s okay to be in despair and broken, is it not? Such hard times can be “gems”, so said St. Theresa, as far as one’s development in strength of the faith. Sure, it’s risky business, which is why I don’t take it lightly, and I truly fear for my fate. I never assume my judgement. If I don’t mortally sin, I cannot feel entitled to heaven. I can simply be aware of God’s promise, and hope he judges on me with favor.

This debate in the church is ever on-going. Vatican II addressed it, our current Pope is addressing it. Simply following the law is what Jesus preached against to the Jews. However, feelings and emotions are ever so dangerous to us human beings. The warmth can conflict us.

Yes, I did “accuse” you of sounding like a Protestant LOL. I think it’s just a way to say that, in my mere opinion, you sounded as if you weren’t holding me accountable enough for my actions, even if you gave not only words of encouragement, but reminders of the Grace and Mercy of God. I realize you don’t know me, and don’t know what I know. I didn’t reveal them. I know of God’s grace and mercy. I know of God’s promise.

But in one thing you are correct. I was staying away from Confession out of shame, guilt, and probably some reverse ego. Your simple and correct advice to just go there is undeniably true to Catholicism. You’re right on in that one.

Mr Friscus, my own view with such things, is to just not make excuses for myself, try my absolute best, and trust God to supply grace for the rest. This way, we give Him the best and most generous response, we cooperate with His grace, but we also rely on Him for the success. There are two opposite errors we can fall into… thinking it’s all our effort, and making excuses and not putting in effort. Both are incorrect, imo.

You don’t need to analyse yourself so much perhaps. If there are any factors that limit culpability, it’s often difficult for us to know this about ourselves. Just try your best, in a most generous way, trust God and rely on His strength, and you would be well disposed to receive any graces He wishes to give you God bless you.

 

[1neophyte]

Mr Friscus, my own view with such things, is to just not make excuses for myself, try my absolute best, and trust God to supply grace for the rest. This way, we give Him the best and most generous response, we cooperate with His grace, but we also rely on Him for the success. There are two opposite errors we can fall into… thinking it’s all our effort, and making excuses and not putting in effort. Both are incorrect, imo.

You don’t need to analyse yourself so much perhaps. If there are any factors that limit culpability, it’s often difficult for us to know this about ourselves. Just try your best, in a most generous way, trust God and rely on His strength, and you would be well disposed to receive any graces He wishes to give you God bless you.

Beautiful.

 

[Monica4316]

I’m glad we agree on some things!

 

[PulvisEtCinis]

As I and others have stated, the OP is in no position to determine himself that he is objectively in the state of mortal sin, and as I have stated repeatedly, he needs to go to confession rather than sitting around despairing that his relationship with God is over and he is going to hell. If you think this is heretical, it is you spreading poison, not me.

Yes, one can determine pretty accurately if one is in mortal sin, or at least they know if they are aware of one. Mortal sins aren’t some mystery, if one commits a sin of grave matter while both having sufficient reflection to know that it is grave or seriously believing that it could be grave matter and then choosing to commit the sin anyway then there is no reason to assume that it isn’t a mortal sin.

I agree that he needs to go to confession, as I said in my message to him (if you read it), yet going to confession is useless, nay, not only useless but an additional mortal sin, if he makes a confession that is invalid (which having no purpose of amendment would invalidate the confession).

Having committed a mortal sin does not mean that your relationship with God is permanently over (it is reclaimed when you return to a state of grace, say after a valid confession - or perfect contrition with intent to go to Confession asap). It does not automatically mean that he is going to Hell. The point is, that one should not approach the sacrament if they know full well they aren’t disposed to receive it. This doesn’t appear to be an issue of scruples (which require delicate handling of a spiritual director); everything I read indicates no purpose of amendment (indeed it is explicitly stated in his opening post).

What I thought was heretical about your posts was the blatantly heretical things that you said, allow me to quote them:

Oooh! I love this post!

I understand that you feel like you are separated from God, because you have been conditioned by the mantra that mortal sin destroys the relationship, but that is a flat out lie. Or rather, a flat out half-truth. God loves you, or better stated, is CRAZY about you, and there is absolutely nothing you can do to change that. Separation from God is possible, but only if you give up. Your words here indicate that you have not given up. Your awareness of your slavery and your clear exhaustion from the vicious cycle that you describe are exactly where you need to be. The moment that these words poured from your heart, you were justified. I guarantee you. If you don’t want to take my word for it, read Luke 18:9-14. Jesus is talking about you there.

It is a teaching of the Church throughout the ages that Mortal sin destroys the life of grace in our soul (the very thing that binds us to God). It is not only giving up completely giving up (despair or apostasy etc) but any sin of grave matter done with sufficient reflection and deliberate consent is a mortal sin and destroys the life of grace within us. This is something which you keep ignoring. You have no right to contradict the Church which has been given authority to interpret the Apostolic deposite of the faith. You lift yourself up in opposition to the Church’s teachings? Who gave you authority above that of the Church that Christ established? I suggest you humble yourself and reassess some of this stuff that you have been saying. If you don’t mean them the way that you have said them then learn to express them better or keep your peace; what you say can seriously damage the soul of one who misunderstands what you write.

…I’ve always thought the effort to label something “Catholic” or “Protestant” is pretty silly…Why don’t we just try to figure out what is “true”?..

The label is important because the Catholic Faith is true - all of the Catholic faith is true because the Church is infallible in its teaching. The Protestant sects are only true in so far as they conform to the faith we hold as Catholics. In other words, the Protestants are heretics and to muddy your theological waters with half-truths and outright lies is a very risky proposition for your soul.

 

[PulvisEtCinis]

…The entire point is that the tax collector never insinuates a resolve to do better. That is why the gospel is so scandalous. That is why Jesus was crucified. If Jesus was going around saying forgiveness is only for the repentant, there would be nothing particularly remarkable about His words, and He may not have even been killed…

The tax collector does not explicitly spell it out in that parable, but I see nothing to the contrary either. Moreover, I see nowhere in the Gospels where it is said, or even implied that one doesn’t have to repent or resolve to put away sin. In-fact, He begins His public ministry with the words “Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand” (Matthew 4:17) for crying out loud. Does He not say also ‘repent or you will likewise perish?’

Luke 13:1-5 “There were some present at that very time who told him of the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And he answered them, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered thus? 3 I tell you, No; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen upon whom the tower in Silo′am fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, No; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.””

Also:

Luke 15:7 “Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.” Why such joy in heaven over the sinner who repents if such isn’t necessary? In addition, why is it contrasted with the righteous who ‘need no repentance’ - apparently, according to you, the sinner doesn’t need repentance either.

Luke 24:47 “and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all nations,[h] beginning from Jerusalem.”

Or perhaps Peter? Acts 2:38 “And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” Repentance is a necessary part of what Peter says here.

Acts 3:19 “Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,” Again… ‘repentance’ and ‘turning again’ are necessary for sins to be blotted out.

Or Paul? Acts 17:30 “The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all men everywhere to repent” God commands us to repent.

There is more that could be said, much more, but I will not go on.

Being a “good Catholic” is not only difficult. It is impossible. Jesus says as much in Matthew 19 and Mark 10.

No, this is heresy. Being a ‘good Catholic’ is not impossible, it is required and God grants us the grace to do this. Does this mean that we are always perfect and never sin at all? No, we will sin. Yet, that does not mean that it is impossible to live a just life (true, it is impossible to live a just life without grace, but a Catholic has plenteous access to grace). Mark 10 and Matthew 19 have nothing at all to do with being a ‘good Catholic’, but rather that some cannot receive his saying about the celibate lifestyle, because clearly they are called to marriage. It is in no way loosening the requirements of the Catholic moral code or saying that it isn’t possible to be a ‘good catholic’ rather it isn’t possible for some to receive his teaching on being celibate ‘for the kingdom of heaven’ rather than being married.

 

[PulvisEtCinis]

Thank you.

Your quote from Augustine’s confessions brought a tear to my eye. Such a beautiful and wise thought.

That is one of my favorite quotes from Augustine. It just seemed right to post it.

 

[PulvisEtCinis]

I think it’s safe to say that my will is lacking. And it’s not just in my faith, but in many areas of my life.

However, one is far more important than the others.

Building will isn’t easy. However, it shouldn’t be. I can whine all I want, it gets me nowhere.

No, it isn’t easy, it requires a lot of effort and time and much grace from above.

My confessor (who is my spiritual director) told me once that “you can’t simply wave a magic wand and have your problems go away, it doesn’t work like that. It takes time and you must be patient” These are some true words, my friend. We just have to keep trying, and keep praying and keep building up our will in so far as we are able. If we fall, we need to confess as soon as possible and not become despondent, or worse, despair. We must always make that act of the will to cling to the good and reject sin, especially grave sin. Yet, we must remember that in this God is helping us; He will supply us with graces to do this; we must trust in Him and His Mercy. He will not abandon us.

 

[1neophyte]

Yet, we must remember that in this God is helping us; He will supply us with graces to do this; we must trust in Him and His Mercy. He will not abandon us.

Careful. You might get accused of heresy if you talk like that around here.

 

[PulvisEtCinis]

Careful. You might get accused of heresy if you talk like that around here.

There is no heresy in saying what the Church teaches.

 

[Monica4316]

I found that reflecting on Heaven and hell really helps to want to leave behind sin. Some Saints have saw hell and wrote about it.

It also really helps to reflect on Jesus’ Passion, in detail. Maybe using a book like the Dolorous Passion by Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich, or writings by St Alphonsus Liguori. This can lead to a very deep contrition. For example reflecting in detail on the Scourging helps to fight impurity.

archive.org/stream/thedolorouspassi10866gut/10866.txt

 

[1neophyte]

There is no heresy in saying what the Church teaches.

The Church teaches that if one is in the state of mortal sin, one is cut off from a relationship with God. If you suggest that God doesn’t abandon such a soul and still provides graces in the absence of a relationship, you are speaking heresy and putting souls in danger, including your own. Please stop spreading such poison.

 

[PulvisEtCinis]

The Church teaches that if one is in the state of mortal sin, one is cut off from a relationship with God. If you suggest that God doesn’t abandon such a soul and still provides graces in the absence of a relationship, you are speaking heresy and putting souls in danger, including your own. Please stop spreading such poison.

Yes, we do receive graces in a state of mortal sin; those of conversion. Otherwise, what graces do you think got you into the relationship with God in the first place? Your own will alone, unaided? Please.

You don’t even understand the doctrines you reject, or else you are being intentionally obtuse.

 

[1neophyte]

You don’t even understand the doctrines you reject, or else you are being intentionally obtuse.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[PulvisEtCinis]

My sentiments exactly.

So, are you going to actually engage the argument or are you going to be passive aggressive and deflect? If you really expect to convince any Catholics around here, you are going to need to produce some reason why we should trust you over the Church which Christ established. So far, I see none; not only were you not given authority by our Lord, but your arguments aren’t even logically constructed, nor do you accurately state the doctrine that you argue against. You keep harping on one thing, as if no one else is talking about God’s mercy, while you neglect everything else that Christ and the Church teach.

 

[PulvisEtCinis]

I found that reflecting on Heaven and hell really helps to want to leave behind sin. Some Saints have saw hell and wrote about it.

It also really helps to reflect on Jesus’ Passion, in detail. Maybe using a book like the Dolorous Passion by Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich, or writings by St Alphonsus Liguori. This can lead to a very deep contrition. For example reflecting in detail on the Scourging helps to fight impurity.

archive.org/stream/thedolorouspassi10866gut/10866.txt

I agree fully.

 

[1neophyte]

So, are you going to actually engage the argument or are you going to be passive aggressive and deflect? If you really expect to convince any Catholics around here, you are going to need to produce some reason why we should trust you over the Church which Christ established. So far, I see none; not only were you not given authority by our Lord, but your arguments aren’t even logically constructed, nor do you accurately state the doctrine that you argue against. You keep harping on one thing, as if no one else is talking about God’s mercy, while you neglect everything else that Christ and the Church teach.

There is no argument. We’re on the same side. I sarcastically and satirically used the same nonsensical contrived “argument” that you used against me in accusing me of heresy, and you rightfully called it either a failure to understand or an intentional obtuseness. You’re so confused and mired in cognitive dissonance that you’re arguing with yourself for the sake of arguing.

If someone had fresh third degree burns on their hand after placing it directly in a fire, it would not be the time to sit down and explain the consequences of the burn and the internal effects on organs, the possibilities of infection, the potential need for skin grafts, depending on the severity of the injury, and blah blah blah. There would be an urgent need to get the person to a professional who could offer immediate help.

I was addressing one person about one situation. I was not issuing a Church teaching, nor representing myself as anyone even remotely in authority to issue any such teaching. The OP was expressing a pretty extreme level of despair, and a resignation that there was nothing to be done to save him from eternal damnation. This was not only the result of listening to and meditating on demonic voices who would love nothing more than for us all to be converted to this “belief,” but also the result of the poisonous self-contradictory type of nonsense that you’ve been spewing. Look back at what he said. MULTIPLE priests have told him things that have “surprised” him because they were “letting him off too easy.” This is a person who is absolutely determined to live in despair, and it’s because of formation that was based on fiction posing as “Church teaching.”

I was not arguing against any doctrine. Any “argument” was created by you and the others in this thread who are addicted to being contentious. I was only “harping” on two facts: the OP needed to stop wallowing in despair and get to confession, and the FACT that even in the state of mortal sin, God continues to offer us graces. You YOURSELF just said as much a few posts ago, and mocked me when I offered the same ridiculous challenge that you tried to spew on me. Not only does He continue to offer us graces, but He continues to know us. To know when we sit and when we stand. To continue to be familiar with our ways. There is NOWHERE we can go from His Spirit, and NOWHERE we can flee from His presence. We can make our bed in Hell (commit mortal sin), and He will still find us. That sounds an awful lot like a relationship to me. This is what the OP needed to be reminded of, and I stepped up and reminded him. And you want to argue! It is not me that doesn’t understand the “doctrine” we’re talking about. It’s you, I assure you!

 

[Monica4316]

The Church teaches that if one is in the state of mortal sin, one is cut off from a relationship with God. If you suggest that God doesn’t abandon such a soul and still provides graces in the absence of a relationship, you are speaking heresy and putting souls in danger, including your own. Please stop spreading such poison.

Actually if they were saying this they would not be in heresy, they would be correct.

I took a very in depth catechism class this year with an FSSP priest. No heresy there. We were told that a person in mortal sin is indeed cut off from spiritual life in God (relationship with God means living in sanctifying grace and having God dwell in your soul in a special way) - BUT they still receive actual graces. In fact no sinner would ever repent without actual graces.

So I’m thinking are we maybe defining ‘relationship’ differently? Maybe you mean it as “God having something to do with the soul”. Obviously God still gives actual graces to a sinful soul. That’s.how we come back. I define relationship as a loving relationship in grace where we have sanctifying grace (not just actual), and God living in us. This indeed ends with mortal sin and starts again after Confession or perfect contrition.

Maybe it could help to study more catechism, its helped me lot to make sense of things

 

[Monica4316]

1neophyte

I don’t think anyone here is being contentious needlessly. No one has any difficulty at all with you talking about God’s Mercy, because many others talked about it too including myself what people reacted to was the statement that mortal sin doesn’t destroy a relationship with God. Posters tried to clarify that it does, but that doesn’t mean God doesn’t want the person, or doesn’t give actual grace (definition;catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=31646) or that He stops being merciful to them.

I’m thinking maybe that is the difficulty. I’m wondering if you see these two alternatives:

• relationship with God meaning God helping you and acting in your life
• no relationship which means God abandons you

Is this why you said mortal sin doesn’t break the relationship?

Others here like PulvisEtCinis and me (sorry I forgot who else posted) are using “relationship” in a specific way. We are using it to mean two options:

• relationship with God means a person is in a state of sanctifying grace, indwelt by the Holy Trinity
• no relationship which means they are out of sanctifying grace BUT God still acts through actual graces to bring them back

Maybe the second option doesn’t seem much like “no relationship” to you because God is still doing something, but - a relationship needs to be loving, and only in grace are we able to TRULY love.

Hope that helps…

 

[Monica4316]

Catholic Dictionary

Term

ACTUAL GRACE

Definition

Temporary supernatural intervention by God to enlighten the mind or strengthen the will to perform supernatural actions that lead to heaven. Actual grace is therefore a transient divine assistance to enable man to obtain, retain, or grow in supernatural grace and the life of God.

Term

SANCTIFYING GRACE

Definition

The supernatural state of being infused by God, which permanently inheres in the soul. It is a vital principle of the supernatural life, as the rational soul is the vital principle of a human being’s natural life. It is not a substance but a real quality that becomes part of the soul substance. Although commonly associated with the possession of the virtue of charity, sanctifuing grace is yet distinct from this virtue. Charity, rather, belongs to the will, whereas sanctifying grace belongs to the whole soul, mind, will, and affections. It is called sanctifying grace because it makes holy those who possess the gift by giving them a participation in the divine life. It is zo_ (life), which Christ taught that he has in common with the Father and which those who are in the state of grace share.

catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/