How to make my atheist boyfriend more comfortable with NFP (for when we're married obviously)

[akela135]

Hi there

I’ve been dating my current boyfriend for only about 5 months, but because we are both at a big “career stage” of our lives, sacrifices are being made and we’ve been talking about the specifics of if/when/how we’d be married to solidify our commitment to each other. It probably won’t happen for at least another year or two, but we’ve discussed as many possible “issues” as possible.

He’s an atheist, which I know receives a lot of criticism on this forum, but hear me out: I met him at a Catholic retreat (he’s got a ton of friends who are Catholic and is surprisingly tolerant) and he has been SO supportive of my faith. He’s gone to Mass with me a couple times, and we certainly discuss faith but it’s very respectful because we both approach faith with a more “intellectual” approach. I’ve been very VERY clear our entire relationship, my faith is my #1 priority and if I ever feel for a second that he is pulling me away from it, we’d have to re-think being together.

He’s been completely ok with the no-sex-before-marriage thing and never pressures me in the slightest. In fact I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t, even if I had a moment of weakness and gave him the go-ahead. When it comes to marriage I told him I want to get married in the Church (he’s baptized Catholic), our children MUST be raised Catholic, and we need to use NFP. When I mentioned NFP, he said he’d be fine with it as long as I can show him studies about it’s effectiveness, I did, he read them and agreed.

Last night we were talking and he admitted that NFP is starting to scare him because he would really like to avoid children for at least a couple of years after we get married (we’re both obsessed with travelling the world). I promised him I’d send him more research and he said it’s that, as well as the fact that without a physical barrier (i.e. condoms) he would feel really really nervous not knowing if it “failed” (apparently he never let his previous gf use just the pill either).

I could see how sincerely saddened and scared he was - this wasn’t him attacking my beliefs by any means, and it broke my heart. I know I’m following my beliefs with all the “rules” I’ve set up and I don’t regret it, but I can’t help but feel awful for all the concessions he is making for me. He has been SO open and ok with everything and I know he wants to be ok with NFP but just isn’t right now.

Has anyone dealt with an atheist husband + NFP? Other than showing him more studies and getting him to chart with me when the time comes, how can I help him feel better about it?

If you get in engaged you will have the option to learn NFP and start charting during your engagement. This is used so you will be familiar with the system before you are married and thus won’t have to abstain while married to learn. Using studies and reading about NFP is great but it isn’t the same as actually seeing it work while observing your own body. I think if you started to chart and could show him your charts as they continued to line up with what the studies said he’d feel more comfortable with it. Not to mention if you have any issues with learning or problems that need to be addressed you’d have a chance to start treatment before marriage. I know you have already suggested doing this but I really think just divng in to show him is the best way.

You could perhaps even reason with him along the lines of only using it conservatively in the third phase so he gets time to warm up to the idea and trust it more. I think the biggest issue is fear that it won’t work, but if you can reason with him to start slow (if you need to use it) and work up to more “confusing” times like the beginning of phase one he might be more receptive.

As others have already said this will be a big part of your marriage. Choosing when, why, and how to space children is one of the biggest decisions you will make as a couple. If you can’t feel you are both 100% on board with how you will plan and grow your family you might think about not marrying until you are. I know you say marriage is still a few years away so you do have plenty of time left to work out whether this is the right choice for you.

 

[agapewolf]

You don’t have to be engaged to start charting. I’ve been charting for 10 years and I’m single.

 

[akela135]

What atheist would be OK with it?

I would like to point out that I know lots of atheist who do in fact use some form of NFP. Although they are more likely to call it fertility awareness and add in condoms every so often. Anyway some people value control and don’t feel they can trust ABC. They see the failure rate as a gamble and while NFP has a failure rate they view it as something more in their control. They know when it is “dangerous” and when it is “safe” and they can adjust accordingly.

Others of course are into green living and don’t like adding chemicals to their body unless absolutely needed and use NFP as an alternative to ABC for those reasons. Some women athletes also notice that ABC has undesired effects on their performance and will use NFP to allow them to stay in better shape for whatever sport they play.

It isn’t exactly a common choice right now but more and more people are starting to see the benefits to using NFP or FAM and switiching to it regardless of religious beliefs.

 

[Kelfa28]

God comes first within Marriage. Always.

We are called to love our spouses as God loves us. God loves us in five distinct ways. His love is permanent, knowledge-based, a choice, a self-gift and…it is life-giving. Both literally and figuratively.

Marriage should always be within the intent of giving life. Therefore a spouse must always be open to life throughout marriage…regardless of whether life can be achieved or not.

If he cannot agree to this then he won’t be able to give you the fullness of love that you deserve. He is not willing to give all of himself or accept all of you. It’s nice that he is waiting until marriage for relations…but he is doing it for you and not for himself as well. How can you be sure that he won’t be using you for sex? If he wants to have marital relations but can’t accept the fact that your fertility comes in that package…then he is using you for the pleasure of sex and that is it.

He needs to understand not just the phrase: “we can’t use contraceptives because the Church says so.” He needs to understand exactly why the Church teaches this. God has to be the central part of a Marriage. As an Atheist. I doubt he can or will understand and accept this concept.

If I was still single and was discerning marriage and was the devote Catholic I am today…I would never date an Atheist or an Agnostic. This is just my personal opinion…but Marriage is tough enough and I’d rather not have to fight with my husband over every single thing that could possibly pop up and cause problems…especially when it comes to my faith. That is the bedrock of my entire existence and purpose.

I always think about a quote from Marge Simpson in one Simpson episode where Homer decides he doesn’t want to attend Church anymore.

“Don’t make me choose between my husband and my God because you just can’t win, Homer.” -Marge Simpson.

By the way…

Marrying someone with the intent of changing them is a blueprint for disaster.

THIS…time one million!

 

[stina2bina]

God comes first within Marriage. Always.

By the way…

THIS…time one million!

I don’t really understand why me telling him what I, as a Catholic woman, need in a marriage is “trying to change him” to everyone. Yesterday I went to a physics conference. I didn’t understand a thing, I was bored out of my mind, and frankly have no interest in the subject. I’m SO glad I went. Why? because I’m there to support my boyfriend. I didn’t feel like I was being asked to change my interests because he asked me to go hear him speak. Couple’s make all sorts of concessions about all sorts of things when they are together, because he’s dating a Catholic, or me, because I’m dating a Physicist. I know he has genuine respect for me because I’m Catholic and stick by it. He just doesn’t see what I see.

Just as with the no-sex-before-marriage thing (which btw he agrees now is the best choice for any couple, religious or not), he sees plenty of benefits to NFP: He thinks the periodic abstinence would be good for our marriage because it keeps you from taking sex for granted, a part of him is excited not to use a condom. You’re right, he won’t be able to fully appreciate the awesome-ness of it, but that doesn’t mean he can’t learn to appreciate it enough as an atheist. I’ve definitely learned to love that the “rules” the Catholic church teaches also bring joy in a more practical sense as well.

Any more advice, especially regarding the question I asked in the first place, would be great.

 

[agapewolf]

I don’t really understand why me telling him what I, as a Catholic woman, need in a marriage is “trying to change him” to everyone. Yesterday I went to a physics conference. I didn’t understand a thing, I was bored out of my mind, and frankly have no interest in the subject. I’m SO glad I went. Why? because I’m there to support my boyfriend. I didn’t feel like I was being asked to change my interests because he asked me to go hear him speak. Couple’s make all sorts of concessions about all sorts of things when they are together, because he’s dating a Catholic, or me, because I’m dating a Physicist. I know he has genuine respect for me because I’m Catholic and stick by it. He just doesn’t see what I see.

Just as with the no-sex-before-marriage thing (which btw he agrees now is the best choice for any couple, religious or not), he sees plenty of benefits to NFP: He thinks the periodic abstinence would be good for our marriage because it keeps you from taking sex for granted, a part of him is excited not to use a condom. You’re right, he won’t be able to fully appreciate the awesome-ness of it, but that doesn’t mean he can’t learn to appreciate it enough as an atheist. I’ve definitely learned to love that the “rules” the Catholic church teaches also bring joy in a more practical sense as well.

Any more advice, especially regarding the question I asked in the first place, would be great.

Religion is not merely a subject matter, a job, or a hobby. It is the whole purpose of existence. Our Vocation, our calling, as Christians, is to proclaim the truth to all peoples, and evangelize souls for the sake of the kingdom. Our job IS to be vessels for people’s hearts to change.

The purpose of marriage is to get each other to heaven. The husband is supposed to love his wife as Christ loved the church. To get his wife to heaven even if it kills him, as the spiritual head of the household. You’re trusting your soul to someone who doesn’t even believe in the very MEANING of YOUR life.

NFP is just a side note really. If one studies why NFP is can be used, and TOB, they start to see the contraception is harmful emotionally, and is simply using another person. It’s not just following a simple rule, and trusting the method. It’s about him wanting to use you by desecrating the sexual act.

 

[akela135]

I don’t really understand why me telling him what I, as a Catholic woman, need in a marriage is “trying to change him” to everyone. Yesterday I went to a physics conference. I didn’t understand a thing, I was bored out of my mind, and frankly have no interest in the subject. I’m SO glad I went. Why? because I’m there to support my boyfriend. I didn’t feel like I was being asked to change my interests because he asked me to go hear him speak. Couple’s make all sorts of concessions about all sorts of things when they are together, because he’s dating a Catholic, or me, because I’m dating a Physicist. I know he has genuine respect for me because I’m Catholic and stick by it. He just doesn’t see what I see.

Just as with the no-sex-before-marriage thing (which btw he agrees now is the best choice for any couple, religious or not), he sees plenty of benefits to NFP: He thinks the periodic abstinence would be good for our marriage because it keeps you from taking sex for granted, a part of him is excited not to use a condom. You’re right, he won’t be able to fully appreciate the awesome-ness of it, but that doesn’t mean he can’t learn to appreciate it enough as an atheist. I’ve definitely learned to love that the “rules” the Catholic church teaches also bring joy in a more practical sense as well.

Any more advice, especially regarding the question I asked in the first place, would be great.

Have you heard of the website 1flesh.org? They are a group that is promoting NFP and talks about why ABC can be harmful and all the benefits to NFP. Your boyfriend might enjoy reading some of their articles. They pull up a lot of science based stuff so I think that he would enjoy it. You could recommend he check it out or perhaps read some of their info yourself.

 

[stina2bina]

Have you heard of the website 1flesh.org? They are a group that is promoting NFP and talks about why ABC can be harmful and all the benefits to NFP. Your boyfriend might enjoy reading some of their articles. They pull up a lot of science based stuff so I think that he would enjoy it. You could recommend he check it out or perhaps read some of their info yourself.

Oh I forgot about that site. Yes, it’s really great Thanks so much for the reminder!

 

[exoflare]

Religion is not merely a subject matter, a job, or a hobby. It is the whole purpose of existence. Our Vocation, our calling, as Christians, is to proclaim the truth to all peoples, and evangelize souls for the sake of the kingdom. Our job IS to be vessels for people’s hearts to change.

The purpose of marriage is to get each other to heaven. The husband is supposed to love his wife as Christ loved the church. To get his wife to heaven even if it kills him, as the spiritual head of the household. You’re trusting your soul to someone who doesn’t even believe in the very MEANING of YOUR life.

:yup::yup:

Sounds like the OP has her mind made up already though.

 

[Joe_5859]

Any more advice, especially regarding the question I asked in the first place, would be great.

Oh yeah… that question.

I don’t really share your experience, so I cannot share any first-hand tips. I think it would be natural for a non-believer to be hesitant about something the majority of people seem to have no problem with at all. But such hesitation doesn’t necessarily mean someone is or will become closed off to the idea. There are plenty of things that I am hesitant about, but then just telling my wife about it out loud makes me feel better about them.

I think time and familiarity will be helpful. Once you two actually go through the courses and start charting, then NFP won’t be such a foreign concept.

 

[Kelfa28]

I don’t really understand why me telling him what I, as a Catholic woman, need in a marriage is “trying to change him” to everyone. Yesterday I went to a physics conference. I didn’t understand a thing, I was bored out of my mind, and frankly have no interest in the subject. I’m SO glad I went. Why? because I’m there to support my boyfriend. I didn’t feel like I was being asked to change my interests because he asked me to go hear him speak. Couple’s make all sorts of concessions about all sorts of things when they are together, because he’s dating a Catholic, or me, because I’m dating a Physicist. I know he has genuine respect for me because I’m Catholic and stick by it. He just doesn’t see what I see.

Being a Catholic is not a hobby. It’s who you are…it’s your entire being: mind, body and soul. You should never have to make a concession in regards to your faith…IMO. You aren’t called to raise your children as physicists. You aren’t discerning a vocation in physics.

Of course couples make all sorts of concessions when they date. I said that in my post. Marriage is hard work because you are constantly working with each other and your differences with each other in order to make things progress and evolve into something better. I’d rather not have to include Religion on these things. I wouldn’t want my husband to think that my faith is a hobby and something I do on the weekends…like softball or something.
I want to grow in my faith every year. I don’t see how a non-religious husband can help in that matter.

As for NFP. Plenty of people have been jumping onboard with it. It’s known as Fertility Awareness Method to the secular crowd. Dr. Toni Weschler has a book called Taking Charge of Your Fertility.
Before I became a devote Catholic I was planning on using NFP anyway as an alternative to the pill and picked up this book and read it cover to cover. It’s a secular book…unlike resources like NaPro and Couple to Couple League, which are Catholic resources. It has a 99.6% accurate rate if used…perfectly. However, you’ll find it’s not always easy to achieve that level. My husband and I certainly don’t but I know exactly when we played with fire. We know the rules and we know when we’ve broken them.

He needs to take a NFP class and learn that it’s impossible for you to get pregnant during certain times of the month (namely phase three when the egg is gone and there is nothing to fertilize).

Even secular versions of NFP acknowledge that using a condom during the fertile phase 2 is playing with fire because if there is a failure that is when you will most likely get pregnant. They recommend abstinence too.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

“apparently he never let his previous gf use just the pill either”

In other words he was doing his girlfriend a favor by having sex with her and therefore could set the conditions under which this favor was carried out. He has a rather high opinion of himself.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

“apparently he never let his previous gf use just the pill either”

In other words he was doing his girlfriend a favor by having sex with her and therefore could set the conditions under which this favor was carried out. He has a rather high opinion of himself.

???

I don’t know how you got that. When I read that I saw a guy who is pretty terrified of being a father and insisted that they still use condoms or another method in addition to the pill. That’s a pretty typical practice.

 

[stina2bina]

Being a Catholic is not a hobby. It’s who you are…it’s your entire being: mind, body and soul. You should never have to make a concession in regards to your faith…IMO. You aren’t called to raise your children as physicists. You aren’t discerning a vocation in physics.

Of course couples make all sorts of concessions when they date. I said that in my post. Marriage is hard work because you are constantly working with each other and your differences with each other in order to make things progress and evolve into something better. I’d rather not have to include Religion on these things. I wouldn’t want my husband to think that my faith is a hobby and something I do on the weekends…like softball or something.
I want to grow in my faith every year. I don’t see how a non-religious husband can help in that matter.

As for NFP. Plenty of people have been jumping onboard with it. It’s known as Fertility Awareness Method to the secular crowd. Dr. Toni Weschler has a book called Taking Charge of Your Fertility.
Before I became a devote Catholic I was planning on using NFP anyway as an alternative to the pill and picked up this book and read it cover to cover. It’s a secular book…unlike resources like NaPro and Couple to Couple League, which are Catholic resources. It has a 99.6% accurate rate if used…perfectly. However, you’ll find it’s not always easy to achieve that level. My husband and I certainly don’t but I know exactly when we played with fire. We know the rules and we know when we’ve broken them.

He needs to take a NFP class and learn that it’s impossible for you to get pregnant during certain times of the month (namely phase three when the egg is gone and there is nothing to fertilize).

Even secular versions of NFP acknowledge that using a condom during the fertile phase 2 is playing with fire because if there is a failure that is when you will most likely get pregnant. They recommend abstinence too.

Where did I, at any point, state that I was making concessions that went against my faith? I did not. I would never sacrifice my values for a relationship. Period.

And thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut regarding your secular view of NFP. It is very useful to hear

…This is in no way directed at you, but I gotta say: I think it’s quite sad the views some people on this forum have of non-Catholics. There have been PLENTY of non-Catholic people who have married Catholics and have very happy marriages. I have seen evidence of it on these forums. Yes, St Paul states not to be unequally yoked, but he always states the good that can come from a pagan coming to Christ (whether that be conversion, or simply seeing the good of Catholic values) through a Christian spouse, and there is also evidence in 1 Corithians.

In case y’all didn’t realize, we are in a VERY secular world. The fact that you have a 24 year old woman who is defending NFP to such an extent, and an atheist 24 year old man who is 100% open to the “Catholic” things brought forward to him and you don’t see how rare and yes, good that is, is frightening to me. My sisters and I have dated a couple devout Catholic men, and they were simply following a faith they never thought about, and in my sister’s case, emotionally abusive. I am in no way saying that Catholic men are WORSE than non-Catholics, but I have realized that I will not say that non-Catholic men shouldn;t be able to experience some of the amazing teachings of the Church through his wife.

My boyfriend is in his early 20’s and raised in a very secular way. Yet, he is spending weekends full of adoration and homilies, going to Mass with me to hear me sing, not complaining in the slightest about the fact that I am chaste and is open to NFP. He even reminds me to say grace before meals on the odd chance I forget. He has stated that he wants me to keep my faith because of all the good it has done in my life. He does not hate religion, just cannot believe it himself, no matter how much he tries. Our faith is a gift. Please stop painting him with your “atheists are all close minded jerks who will do everything they can to undermind you” brush. He is a good guy. If you don’t realize how rare that is, then I feel sorry for your lack of awareness into how 99% of people in their 20’s are these days.

And saying passive aggressive things such as “But it seems as though the OP has made her mind up anyway” is incredibly patronizing. It’s true, I love my boyfriend, but I feel I have demonstrated my commitment to leave as soon as I feel my faith is being challenged or falling. I’m sorry to sound rude, I am really not trying to. I just get frustrated by these forums sometimes. Doesn’t shock me that there are so many young people turning away from the faith, frankly.

It is hard enough being a 24-year-old Catholic these days, and all I am looking for is support here. You don’t have to agree with me that Catholics can marry men who have struggled in faith, yet treat them like a queen and accept the faith that comes with her. But please stop making hopeless assumptions about non-Catholics. I think living in our own little “Catholic bubble” is far from useful to our secular world.

That being said, I am very thankful for some of the comments I have received here. All (name removed by moderator)ut is appreciated, just please keep a level-head about the situation we are in these days . I truly believe we are called to see Christ in everyone. There is PLENTY of Christ in my boyfriend. Try to see it, and in all the amazing non-Christians you have had the pleasure of encountering in your life. I know I have grown in Christ through the lessons I have learned through them.

 

[steph410]

I have not read through all the responses, but honestly it is going to be impossible for you to raise your children as a good Catholic if your husband is an atheist. You should seriously consider the big picture, rather than focusing on the smaller scale issue of nfp.

 

[Mangaartist]

I don’t think anyone here is saying that there aren’t many, many great non-Catholics out there. I certainly know many. But marrying someone is different, just because someone is a great person it doesn’t mean that’s enough for them to be a compatible marriage partner, and I think that’s what other people are getting at. There have to be non-negotiables (e.g. I don’t think I could marry someone who wanted me to be a SAHM (my fiance is eager to be a SAHD =D) but then again even these aren’t set in stone. The way I see it, Catholicism is in its own category, the only actually non-negotiable thing. My fiance is my best friend. He understands me like nobody else. How could he even begin to understand me if he doesn’t share belief in the very reason of my existence, what governs all the choices I make, and what I live and breathe? Sure, we could share hobbies and friends and favorite TV shows and even philosophy, but I wouldn’t want to tie myself to someone for life if our core beliefs are so different? One of the things marriage comes with is a lot of decisions down the line that you’ll need to agree on. I wouldn’t have the confidence that I will be OK with those decisions if my future husband and I didn’t share the same basis for making them.

 

[Boccherini]

The fact that your boyfriend didn’t let his previous girlfriend use just the pill suggests (to me) that he didn’t really trust her to use it properly or is the sort of person who doesn’t feel secure unless he is the one who ‘makes sure’ (like some people who always have to check themselves that the door is locked).

Why does he think that the small possibility that you will get pregnant during the first couple years of marriage is so bad, anyway? If you intend on having children anyway. It’s not he who will be pregnant, after all.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

The fact that your boyfriend didn’t let his previous girlfriend use just the pill suggests (to me) that he didn’t really trust her to use it properly or is the sort of person who doesn’t feel secure unless he is the one who ‘makes sure’ (like some people who always have to check themselves that the door is locked).

Why does he think that the small possibility that you will get pregnant during the first couple years of marriage is so bad, anyway? If you intend on having children anyway. It’s not he who will be pregnant, after all.

Before I finished my undergrad I insisted on 2 forms of birth control, as did a lot of people I knew, male and female alike. It wasn’t that we didn’t trust the other person to do their part, but if one method failed it was nice to have a backup.

 

[Kelfa28]

Where did I, at any point, state that I was making concessions that went against my faith? I did not. I would never sacrifice my values for a relationship. Period.

And thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut regarding your secular view of NFP. It is very useful to hear

What you did do was make a comparison between a physics conference and your Catholic faith. It’s tough to relate because you aren’t married yet…but Marriage can be a struggle sometimes and sometimes it’s the best thing in the world.

My point is that it helps more then you can imagine having someone not just support you and remind you to say grace but to grow with you in your faith. Your spouse is supposed to help you get to heaven. If he doesn’t have faith then I can’t see how he can be of any help and you’ll be alone in your quest to get to heaven. Not to mention the amount of prayers you’ll be dedicating to your husband for his conversion.

I’m not saying secular people are bad people. I’ve not said that once in any of my responses. What I am saying…and I won’t make any apologies for it…is that it’s not a very wise decision to marry someone outside of your faith. We are called to not be unequally yoked.

I know plenty of women and men have written pages to the contrary about this. There are even marriages that have been written about between Catholics and Atheists that work very well. However…what tends to happen is one of two things. Someone converts or the marriage becomes bitter and unbearable and leads to divorce. That is the cold hard truth.

My advice is to keep discerning. But insist your boyfriend has a very thorough understanding of NFP and not just the mechanics but exactly why you are called to practice it and why you have no other option. This includes how he is expected to love you. That love is self-sacrificing and permanent…most people have issues understanding these aspects of love within a marriage.
A child is never a burden. A child doesn’t derail plans but changes them. A child is always a blessing regardless of when he/she comes.

I wish I did more traveling before my baby girl came along. I wish I had done a lot of things but that wasn’t God’s plan.

 

[Kelfa28]

Before I finished my undergrad I insisted on 2 forms of birth control, as did a lot of people I knew, male and female alike. It wasn’t that we didn’t trust the other person to do their part, but if one method failed it was nice to have a backup.

I insisted upon this as well. This was way before I converted, of course. At the end of the day contraceptives do work. You can’t argue with that.

My look at contraceptives is that it is not being totally open to your spouse in every way imaginable. This includes your’s and his/her’s fertility. Otherwise…you are being used for pleasure and pleasure alone.

Besides…I’m very green. I cloth diaper, make homemade, reusable wipes, recycle everything and grow veggies in my garden. I rarely eat out and prefer to scratch make everything. There is no way I would ever put anything in my body like OCs ever again.