How To Measure Heresy In Your church

[Justy90]

The Church that Jesus built has Peter as the visible or earthly head. The gates of Hell will never prevail against it. There is only one Church on earth with Peter as visible head, and you profess not to be in it. What’s more, you profess that God’s Church is wrong.

Where does that put you? Are you with God’s Church with Peter as earthly Prime Minister, or are you doing your own thing believing the faterh of lies against God’s one Church?

This is a very important thing, and not one you or any of us should take lightly.

You cannot find a shred of that in the Bible. Jesus gave the power to bind and loose to all the Apostles as well as the keys to the Kingdom. Where do you come up with Peter’s Prime Minister?? That’s just religious rubbish and a proof of man made tradition.

 

[Justy90]

Your posts crack me up. I know you are just throwing them out their to provoke people. You attack others for having man made systems when someone notes using the Word of God as their guide and Lutheran confessions AND then note you do the same thing.

The same ill thought out argument you throw at Protestants is used by the Eastern Orthodox against the Roman Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox say the RC LEFT the Catholic Church when they split from the other Patriarchs. The EO then say the RCC developed innovative doctrines (immaculate conception, etc) that were not part of the Catholic Church. So while the EO remained as the Catholic conciliar church the RCC developed the doctrines of man. You see MDK everything you say about Protestants could be said about the RCC. You could claim that even though the RCC Church left the ancient church, because it had the Pope who was guided by the HS the Pope could develop new doctrines but then this would be not a whole lot different than Joseph Smith and the Mormons claiming that Joseph Smith was guided by God to develop ancient doctrines that had been lost and restore the church (etc). From an LDS point of view he spoke as a prophet of God.

Protestants do believe they follow the Word of God and that is their standard guided by the Holy Spirit and God given reason. Before you say, how come there are so many interpretations…probably for the same reason the RCC developed new doctrines and interpretations that did not exist within the ancient Church (the Orthodox Catholic faith which the RCC went into schism from). Variations within a family are not necessarily sinful anymore than they were within the 12 tribes of Israel as long as the doctrine is orthodox.

Please note that I have respect for the RCC but am simply pointing out that MDK’s rhetoric does not hold much water. From a Protestant view you guard against innovative doctrines that many come from a man such as the Pope or Joseph Smith by looking to the Word of God. God gave his church His Holy Spirit and the Word of God to guide it AND Just90 is correct that he is part of that church.

AMEN. And thank you for some sensible (name removed by moderator)ut here!

 

[MDK]

I would contend that your style and approach (unintentionally) stands in His way.

No, it’s just your pride that stands in the way. If you were humble enough to admit where you are wrong, you could allow the truth of God, the Holy Spirit to come in and fix things. Otherwise, your pride of being “right” will keep you from it.

You have done me no harm, but the consideration I give to the CC is, quite frankly, despite the approach you take, not because of it.

As long as you find your way home, that’s what I’m interested in. Here, I see your pride again. It’s not me that you’re really fighting against. We have to be humble to come to God. Until you reach a certain level of humility to admit where you’re currently wrong, and ask God to fix it, then you really won’t go anywhere or become closer. It’s no sin to be ignorant, as we all have been. Five years from now, will you be closer to God, or hanging pridefully to the falsehoods you currently believe?
JonNC;5720330:

I know my Church has not lied to me, as I know yours has not lied to you. A lie requires intent to deceive. That is not present in either of our communions. If my communion, or yours, has mixed error with truth, it is not because of an intent to deceive. And we do a disservice to one another and to Chirst when we fail to see the Holy Spirit in each other, and accuse each other of lieing.

That’s your first problem… again pride. The Lutheran ecclesial community has lied to everyone who has listened to them. You and your father are no exception. The question remains to be seen… do you love God more than your pride?

My Church has no error, and never will… and that’s because of Christ who built the Catholic Church.

Your Church which came 1500 years after mine, has some of our teachings, mixed with some man made teachings to result in problems of teaching error.

The thing you miss is that the Holy Spirit does not lie. The falsehoods in the Lutheran ecclesial community are not from the Holy Spirit. Please consider this, and consider what that means to you and your salvation and walk with Christ.

 

[JonNC]

=MDK;5720315]God only created His one Catholic Church
Agreed.

with Peter as head.

Peter and all the apostles, true.

God still wants His Church to be one.

Agreed

It is your people who left for their own teachings, and you who live in that man made tradition.

Wait! Your Catechism holds me blameless of the separation.

Why do you ignore what I’ve written? I’m asking you who left God’s one Church to come back into it. What you’re getting now is not authentically His teaching.

How do you know what I’ve ignored or not? What I have ignored so far is your triumphalism, and you must admit, have carried a civil dialogue with you.

You apparently are still missing either some pieces of the puzzle or just don’t want to go along with is. Probably the former. If you really understood the full truth, I think you would be in God’s one Church.

In an odd, way, I take that as a compliment. Thank you.

Just keep reading what the Catholic Church teaches.

I will.

Jon

 

[MDK]

Your posts crack me up. I know you are just throwing them out their to provoke people. You attack others for having man made systems when someone notes using the Word of God as their guide and Lutheran confessions AND then note you do the same thing.

The same ill thought out argument you throw at Protestants is used by the Eastern Orthodox against the Roman Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox say the RC LEFT the Catholic Church when they split from the other Patriarchs. The EO then say the RCC developed innovative doctrines (immaculate conception, etc) that were not part of the Catholic Church. So while the EO remained as the Catholic conciliar church the RCC developed the doctrines of man. You see MDK everything you say about Protestants could be said about the RCC. You could claim that even though the RCC Church left the ancient church, because it had the Pope who was guided by the HS the Pope could develop new doctrines but then this would be not a whole lot different than Joseph Smith and the Mormons claiming that Joseph Smith was guided by God to develop ancient doctrines that had been lost and restore the church (etc). From an LDS point of view he spoke as a prophet of God.

Protestants do believe they follow the Word of God and that is their standard guided by the Holy Spirit and God given reason. Before you say, how come there are so many interpretations…probably for the same reason the RCC developed new doctrines and interpretations that did not exist within the ancient Church (the Orthodox Catholic faith which the RCC went into schism from). Variations within a family are not necessarily sinful anymore than they were within the 12 tribes of Israel as long as the doctrine is orthodox.

Please note that I have respect for the RCC but am simply pointing out that MDK’s rhetoric does not hold much water. From a Protestant view you guard against innovative doctrines that many come from a man such as the Pope or Joseph Smith by looking to the Word of God. God gave his church His Holy Spirit and the Word of God to guide it AND Just90 is correct that he is part of that church.

Your would do well to learn from God, which is what I posted here. I’m not doing this as you claim “just throwing them out to provoke people.” In saying that, you bear false witness, and so this is an indication you are not being led by God’s Holy Spirit.

What I wrote is true, and sadly for you, you are on the wrong side of truth. You would do well to learn what I wrote… not because I wrote it, but because it portrays the truth of Christ.

 

[MDK]

AMEN. And thank you for some sensible (name removed by moderator)ut here!

There are plenty more who through man made philosophy have itchy ears preferring their own teachings… who agree with you, siding against Christ and His Church. I am glad you’re having a response to the truth I wrote. That means it’s getting into you… who knows if the truth of Christ will be accepted by you or will be rejected by you. What is a problem for you guys is the truth. If you side with the truth, then we could be on the same side. I would welcome this.

 

[MDK]

When does it stop? When do you stop calling everyone who ever left the Catholic church ignorant of its teachings? That won’t cut the mustard anymore. You need a viable defense of your faith, not just trying to paint everyone who doesn’t agree with you as ignorant of Catholicism. Show us. Simply show us in Scripture where the church centered in Rome is God’s one Church. If it were, those who seek him and who have sought him for centuries would be in it.

Why…? Because that’s one of the truths you apparently hate. to understand correctly would inlcude that I’m not calling them an ignorant person in general, but they certainly are either ignorant of what the Church teaches or have chosen to reject God. It’s no sin to be ignorant. It’s neither a grace, and it’s a problem to remain ignorant.

I"ve already explained the Scriptures to you. That you can’t understand this means you don’t understand Scripture. It woud not help me to quote the chapter and verses that I’ve already identified in this thread, as you would just argue that the Holy Spirit and Christ didn’t know what They were talking about, because you obviously know more about what they taught.

 

[Justy90]

There are plenty more who through man made philosophy have itchy ears preferring their own teachings… who agree with you, siding against Christ and His Church. I am glad you’re having a response to the truth I wrote. That means it’s getting into you… who knows if the truth of Christ will be accepted by you or will be rejected by you. What is a problem for you guys is the truth. If you side with the truth, then we could be on the same side. I would welcome this.

If you sided with the truth, you would agree with Scripture and your beliefs and actions prove otherwise, enough said on this subject. Your only intentions are to provoke with smugness. I will not entertain this behavior anymore. It’s not of God.

 

[MDK]

But the gates of hell HAVE prevailed against it many times already MDK. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

No, never. They never will. Not in truth. The Church has never taught error in faith and morals binding on all the faithful.

Like everything else, you come up with your own interpretations to serve yourself and not God. That you oppose God’s inerrant teachings for your own interpretations is the reason you oppose me here. I stand with God, and you stand with your opposition to God.

 

[MDK]

If you sided with the truth, you would agree with Scripture and your beliefs and actions prove otherwise, enough said on this subject. Your only intentions are to provoke with smugness. I will not entertain this behavior anymore. It’s not of God.

Your statement has already been shown to be false. To correct your statement to me should say “If you sided with my own personal version of what I believe, then we would agree.” What is not of God, is your personal religion born of falsehoods based on your own personal interpretations of the Scriptures authored by God’s Catholic Church.

I wish you wouldn’t entertain your false behaviors and errant beliefs anymore. That’s what I asked in the beginning.

The truth presented to the pridefully ignorant will usually get the kind of response you have given. You don’t have a legitimate leg to stand on.

 

[MDK]

Agreed.

Wonderful.

Peter and all the apostles, true.

Nice. Now, is the office of Peter currently visible head of your ecclesial community, the way Christ built His one Church?

Agreed

Very nice. This is not to be underestimated.

Wait! Your Catechism holds me blameless of the separation.

DId I blame you personally for originating the split? You are perpetuating it, though. Please go back and read the Catechism and what I wrote. The go together.

How do you know what I’ve ignored or not? What I have ignored so far is your triumphalism, and you must admit, have carried a civil dialogue with you.

You asked a question that had already been answered. I see that youu have been reading my posts, so this was a lighthearted way of asking you why you asked again.

If you loved Christ and His one true Church, you’d shout from the rooftops as well. I don’t doubt the former, but you don’t subscribe to the latter.

I have done you no wrong at all. In fact, I have not told you any falsehoods about Christ, which can’t be said about your current ecclesial community to which you claim membership.

In an odd, way, I take that as a compliment. Thank you.

It’s simply a correct and true statement. I recognize some things about you, and am not afraid to speak the truth of them.

I will.

Great! You need to follow this as well to be obedient to Christ.

 

[MDK]

… Last I checked we are all called to go and minister to the lost when we are baptized. Some are better than others at it. Thanks for the reminder I think I will bring my soap box today when I go up to the cities.

If you can get some to think and consider what they’re doing and be open to the truth of God, then Godspeed to you. The Holy Spirit can do the heave lifting of actual conversion. Some who are formally in God’s one Church need conversion to be fully in His Church! God bless and may God’s Holy Spirit be with you.

 

[MDK]

You cannot find a shred of that in the Bible. Jesus gave the power to bind and loose to all the Apostles as well as the keys to the Kingdom. Where do you come up with Peter’s Prime Minister?? That’s just religious rubbish and a proof of man made tradition.

A true statement would be that we can’t find a shred of that in your own personal interpretation of Scriptures. However, it is all in the authentic Bible as authentically taught.

Peter was the only one given the keys of the Kingdom. The Scriptures don’t show this for anyone else. The keys represent authority, and matches the OT foreshadowing of the Prime Minister’s role as found in Isiah. Jesus said He would build His Church upon the Kepha of Kepha (as he renamed Simon to Kepha at that moment). Christ went on to say that this Church would never be prevailed upon by the gates of Hell… the Church with Kepha (Rock or Peter) as the Kepha (Rock of the Church).

All the Apostles were given together the ability to excommunicate.

On another occastion, all the Apostles were given the power to forgive.

So, when you speak of religious rubbish, you’re calling what Christ did religious rubbish to you. Is that really where you want to be? Will that help you come closer to Christ, and walk with Him? This is exactly why the truth is important, and why Christ gave us His one Church to teach the truth about Him… so, some would know better than to call what He established as though it were rubbish. I think it is beautiful, and thanks be to God for His one Catholic Church.

 

[JonNC]

=MDK;5720503]
Nice. Now, is the office of Peter currently visible head of your ecclesial community, the way Christ built His one Church?

I, personally, have always considered the Reformation as temporary, and incomplete until reconciliation itself is complete.

I have done you no wrong at all. In fact, I have not told you any falsehoods about Christ, which can’t be said about your current ecclesial community to which you claim membership.

I was clear that you did me no harm, and I’m sure that, from your perspective you have not told me any falsehoods. Indeed, I would not consider anything you’ve said to me was a lie, even if I disagree. I believe my Church has taught me, based on the discerning of scripture and the early Church, what it believes is Truth.

It’s simply a correct and true statement. I recognize some things about you, and am not afraid to speak the truth of them.

We simply share a love for Christ, and a desire for unity.

Jon

 

[MDK]

Your posts crack me up. I know you are just throwing them out their to provoke people. You attack others for having man made systems when someone notes using the Word of God as their guide and Lutheran confessions AND then note you do the same thing.

So, your response to the truth of God is to be cracked up? I love the truths of God.

What you have falsely done is to accuse of some attack, yet you can’t show where that happened. Why? It’s because I’ve discussed behaviors and never attacked anyohne here. What you have done in falsely accusing is a personal attack. I forgive you, though, because I believe it is simply out of ignorance.

Lutheran confessions do not really have God the Word of God as their guide. They have inserted the word of man in between, and believe what man has said about the word of God. Why otherwise would it be possible to have differences in beliefs? The Holy Spirit has always taught the truth in God’s Catholic Church. The Holy Spirit unites in His Catholic Church. Satan divides by men’s pride in Protestantism.

The same ill thought out argument you throw at Protestants is used by the Eastern Orthodox against the Roman Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox say the RC LEFT the Catholic Church when they split from the other Patriarchs. The EO then say the RCC developed innovative doctrines (immaculate conception, etc) that were not part of the Catholic Church. So while the EO remained as the Catholic conciliar church the RCC developed the doctrines of man. You see MDK everything you say about Protestants could be said about the RCC. You could claim that even though the RCC Church left the ancient church, because it had the Pope who was guided by the HS the Pope could develop new doctrines but then this would be not a whole lot different than Joseph Smith and the Mormons claiming that Joseph Smith was guided by God to develop ancient doctrines that had been lost and restore the church (etc). From an LDS point of view he spoke as a prophet of God.

There were fake “messiahs” before Christ, but does that mean the one Christ is not true? Of course not!

There is truth, and there is falsehood. There is a way of teling truth. First with Orthodox (who do have a valid Sacramental Priesthood, unlike Protestants), since God built His Church on the Rock of Peter, and the successor of Peter is not visible head of that Church, they have some “splainin to do.” So, that problem solved.

Now, for Protestantism… God’s Church taught without error for 2,000 years now, and about 500 years ago, some preferred their own man made doctrines and created churches, some named after themselves??? Pretty easy to see that one too. If there were no falsehood in religous matters, there would only be the Catholic Church.

Protestants do believe they follow the Word of God and that is their standard guided by the Holy Spirit and God given reason. Before you say, how come there are so many interpretations…probably for the same reason the RCC developed new doctrines AND interpretations that did not exist within the ancient Church (the Orthodox Catholic faith which the RCC went into schism from). Variations within a family are not necessarily sinful anymore than they were within the 12 tribes of Israel as long as the doctrine is orthodox.

I don’t doubt they believe they do. That’s not the issue though, is it? Do they authentically follow what Jesus established? The clear answer is No, they don’t… at least fully. They do have some truth, but mixed with falsehoods and a lack of five of the Sacraments… recipe for trouble. The Eucharist is incomparable, and you can’t get a valid Eucharist in Protestantism.

There is no valid reason for the schism between Orthodox and Catholic. It was political and some pride that got in the way. The Orthodox are close to coming back into the fold. I hope the same for the Protestants, alghough they have no valid priesthood and teach much more error and so it is more difficult.

Please note that I have respect for the RCC but am simply pointing out that MDK’s rhetoric does not hold much water. From a Protestant view you guard against innovative doctrines that many come from a man such as the Pope or Joseph Smith by looking to the Word of God. God gave his church His Holy Spirit and the Word of God to guide it AND Just90 is correct that he is part of that church.

My words and posts are accurate. That you don’t understand the truth in them doesn’t mean that God is displeased. St. Jerome who translated the Bible from Greek to Latin Vulgate said that “ignorance of Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.” St Jerome was and is a Catholic man, and beleived in the Catholic teachings of Scripture. To more fully make the statement fit into what Christ established as the pillar and foundation of the truth, which authored the Scriptures,** “Ignorance of Catholicism is ignorance of Christ.”** WIthout the Catholic Church, we have no assurance whatsoever of what Scriputres mean. Of course, the 40,000 some-odd different flavors of “Bible’Alone” belief systems would disagree individually, but collectively justify what I just said.

 

[MDK]

I, personally, have always considered the Reformation as temporary, and incomplete until reconciliation itself is complete.

There was never any reason to depart from Catholic Doctrine, nor from God’s Seven Sacraments. No one who believed in authentic Christianity would support departures from God’s Doctrine nor His Sacraments!

I was clear that you did me no harm, and I’m sure that, from your perspective you have not told me any falsehoods. Indeed, I would not consider anything you’ve said to me was a lie, even if I disagree. I believe my Church has taught me, based on the discerning of scripture and the early Church, what it believes is Truth.

I made another point, though, comparing your ecclesial community’s harm to you. Did you miss that?

The pertinent question is not whether your church believes what they are doing… but, are they following what Christ wanted and wants them to teach and do? The answer to that question is clearly NO! Not completely wrong, but very seriously wrong.

We simply share a love for Christ, and a desire for unity.

I believe you do love Christ, but remains to be seen if you really love Him enough to overcome pride, and the error that has been taught to you… to come to the fullness of revealed truth.

How much do you love Him? That is the question that remains to be answered.

 

[TristanCross]

The amount of heresy in your ecclesial community or belief system is the difference between your ecclesial community’s doctrines/beliefs and the Catholic Doctrines/official teachings.

God built His one Church on the rock of Peter, meaning the office of Prime Minister of Christ’s Earthly Kingdom. Did Christ have to do this? No, of course not, but neither did He have to create you and me. Christ went on to say that the gates of Hell would never prevail against His Church built on the rock of Peter. He said He would be with His Church until the end of time. Christ would be with His Church (His Bride) and protect her from all error in teaching faith and morals to do something that Adam was meant to do and did not. Not surprisingly, we see Christ’s promise kept until this time, and will continue until the end of time. God’s Catholic Church with the office of Peter as visible head has never once taught error in faith and morals, and never will. Men can and have sinned in the Church, but the official teachings have never been in error, and if you believe Christ, they never will be in error. This is the Will of God that all men know Him and have the truth of Him.

All ecclesial communities started by men have done so by separating themselves in teaching from God’s Catholic Church. First of all, any separation that keeps us from being one in Christ is an error in teaching. Then, each teaching not in communion with the Catholic Church doctrine is in error. So, these ecclesial communities were founded on some teaching which originally came from God through His Catholic Church, and then mixed with some error to make it it’s own unique brand or set of beliefs. So, these ecclesial communities were formed with errors and so from the very beginning of these, the gates of Hell have prevailed to a lesser or greater extent depending on these errors. These man-made errant teachings have spread far and wide and have torn at the Body of Christ. This is intolerable and scandalous.

God’s one Church is the standard of truth on earth, and as the Holy Spirit inspired Scriptures teach, the Church with Peter as head is the pillar and foundation of the truth. The degree of heresy in your ecclesial community is measured by the amount of distance from Catholic Doctrine, which is a measure of the amount the gates of Hell have prevailed against your ecclesial community. To the degree that your ecclesial community shares doctrine with God’s Catholic Church, congratulations and keep coming closer, building on the truth you do have to come to the fullness of revealed truth in God’s one Catholic Church.

This same admonition certainly applies to all those individuals who call themselves Catholic, but prefer to pick and choose which of God’s teachings they believe are correct.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

 

[MDK]

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

I love Scriptures, but the correct interpretatin of Scriputres must be protected… and that’s why you like other people get confused. The two statements do not conflict, just your understanding of what Jesus said needs some help here. If you look at the larger context of what is being said, Jesus is denying that He came to rule on Earth, like the Jews thought the Messiah would do. He was also saying that His mission is one of Heavenly conquer of Sin and not one of earthly turf battle. This is what He is speaking against. Do you also pull out your eye, and cut offi your hand as Jesus said? I hope not, because we need to understand His words properly in order to follow Him properly.

Jesus is King of His Kingdom which exists in Heaven, in Purgatory, and on the Earth. His Kingdom exists in all three places. Christ established the office of Prime Minister to guard the pearl of great price, His Bride, His Body. The Catholic Church is connected to the Heavenly Kingdom, as we celebrate mass, we do so with the angels and saints in Heaven. We hope to make it from God’s earthly Kingdom (the Church Militant) to the Church Triumphant (Heaven) and will possibly and for many likely need to stop by in Purgatory (the Church suffering) before making it to Heaven.

Many will miss the Heavenly nature of God’s Church, and make it like a democracy, as many in Protestantism have done… deciding for themselves what God teaches rather than listening. The Catholic Church rightly treats God’s Kingdom as a Kingship, listening to the King, and those whom He sent, including His Prime Minister…

Do you reject God, by rejecting those whom He sent to continue His mission, namely the Magisterium in God’s Catholic Church, the rebuilt Davidic Kingdom with the true King as Head?

 

[JonNC]

=MDK;5720656]There was never any reason to depart from Catholic Doctrine, nor from God’s Seven Sacraments. No one who believed in authentic Christianity would support departures from God’s Doctrine nor His Sacraments!

And no one who believed in authentic Christianity would have allowed or practiced the abuses that took place in the 16th century Church. You say this from a 21st century perspective, not from a 16th century one. The problem was it was not God’s doctrine that was being taught in 1500’s Germany. It was Leo’s and Tetzel’s.

I made another point, though, comparing your ecclesial community’s harm to you. Did you miss that?

I didn’t miss it. I just disagree.

The pertinent question is not whether your church believes what they are doing… but, are they following what Christ wanted and wants them to teach and do? The answer to that question is clearly NO!

Again, I disagree. And be careful with blanket statements, as much of what we teach is what you teach.

I believe you do love Christ, but remains to be seen if you really love Him enough to overcome pride, and the error that has been taught to you… to come to the fullness of revealed truth.

I don’t see how you can determine whether it is my pride that somehow causes me to remain in the Lutheran communion. I don’t ascribe personal flaws to your remaining Catholic. Why do you feel the need to do that to me?

How much do you love Him? That is the question that remains to be answered.

Enough to recognize that all that I am, all that I do, that my justification and salvation are all the result of Him loving first. He loved me while I was still in my sins.

Jon

 

[MDK]

And no one who believed in authentic Christianity would have allowed or practiced the abuses that took place in the 16th century Church. You say this from a 21st century perspective, not from a 16th century one. The problem was it was not God’s doctrine that was being taught in 1500’s Germany. It was Leo’s and Tetzel’s.

You miss the point, and present the Church falsely here as well.

If I were talking to them, the individuals who were being abusive, I would ask them to straighten up and follow Church teachings which are without error. Luther’s solution was to change the teachings that men were not following, so that men could follow them. In doing so, he made them man made where men could easily follow.

The official Church teachings have never beein in error… not on Pentecost, not in 385 AD, not in 1500, not in 1600, not in 1700, not in 1800… not today… to the end of time. That men were doing their own thing in the Church was the problem. So, what did Luther do? Luther did his own thing, but unlike those who just behaved badly personally…, Luther changed the very word of God that had been taught by God’s one Church since Pentecost.

I didn’t miss it. I just disagree.

You didn’t address it, and I wanted a comment from you one way or the other. This was why I started this thread, afrterall.

You disagree because you don’t have the fullness of truth as taught by God through His one and only authentic Church. It’s as simple as that. My hope is that some day you will realize the truth of what I tell you, whether or not you remember me is not relevant.

Again, I disagree. And be careful with blanket statements, as much of what we teach is what you teach.

I have spoken the truth, and have not been careless at all. What I said is true, and is not a blanket statement. It must be understood as it was meant in context. God back reread and you’ll see.

I don’t see how you can determine whether it is my pride that somehow causes me to remain in the Lutheran communion. I don’t ascribe personal flaws to your remaining Catholic. Why do you feel the need to do that to me?

That’s not really what I said, although you could put the pieces together to end up with that. What I said was more simple and immediate. I believe it to be true, as this same behavior has been true each time I’ve seen it.

If our eye is the problem, pluck it out, right? Wow, Who would say such a thing?

If you listen to me, I could be the best friend you’ve ever had. I’ve told you the truth, not because I made it up to suit me, but because I’ve made myself to suit the truth (and continue to do so). Your ecclesial community has not done that in regard to God’s one Mystical Body and His Eucharistic Presence. There is no substitute for these.

Enough to recognize that all that I am, all that I do, that my justification and salvation are all the result of Him loving first. He loved me while I was still in my sins.

If you love Him back, you will obey Him and those whom He sent. Many who Christ also loves will end up spending eternity in the smoking section. It won’t be because Jesus didn’t love them. I’m doing this not to show you what I believe about you, but the folly of your statement which you find comfort in. In reality, your statement is incomplete to find real comfort.