How To Measure Heresy In Your church

[MDK]

…
MDK, I admire your zeal. But, I would really appreciate if you toned down the strict Catholic behavior.

Thank you very much, sincerely.

More commentary on the second part… I love Christ, and hate to see you guys miss out on Him authentically taught and His real and true substantial presence in God’s one Church. I also think it’s patently unfair to Christ that we all are not one as He asked, and that people decide that they know better than Him what Christianity is.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

The purpose is to get people to think a little. It’s a provocative statement, and it’s true. Many buy into the lies of Protestantism, and other man-made religions, and so never really know Christ. This is very sad to me, as it hurts the Body of Christ, and also hurts Christ. The purpose is not meant to promote touchy-feely dialogue, but to confront some with the hard truth, which is too often lacking. Now, please go dialogue with these lost people who don’t know what God established. This would be a spiritual work of mercy.

Just as many others, buy into the lies of Papistry. my emphasis]​

If you can use inflammatory language such as the **phrases emphasised **- then so can others. Two - many - can play your game If you are at liberty to vomit on the dearest convictions of others, there is no point complaining if your own prejudices are trodden underfoot.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Yes, I enjoy a good thinker as well. I hate to see them off track, though. Sadly, Jon is separated from God’s thinking and prefers another, an ecclesial community built by a heretic. Jon, if you’re really a good thinker, and even more so an obedient follower of God, then you’ll make it over to His one Church. Until then, you’ll remain a thinker, with your own thoughts that don’t necessarily follow Christ’s teachings and the authority He established. If you reject those sent by Christ which are today the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, then you reject Christ. Please think about that, and bring yourself over to the right track.

Jon and I don’t by any means agree on everything, but he is far more of a Christian than you are No Protestant needs anything Rome has to give.​

 

[TristanCross]

Geer, by all means, please maintain your peace. Calm yourself. I understand that you are angry. But, remember not to let your emotions control you. Satan loves when this happens. Remember the cross. Let His work make peace within you.

Remember, pray. Pray always. Especially for the opposition.

Godspeed.

 

[SemperReformada]

A nice Catholic is one who tells you the truth as I have. A “Catholic” that Bible-only people like is one who denies truth of Catholicism and says every religion is fine… Our society is messed up and lives are ruined due to moral relativism, i.e. people deciding for themselves what morality is. This is born of people not listening to Christ, but deciding that they know better, as you have demonstrated. Christ asked you to follow Him, and not just decide for yourself how much of what He taught is true. It’s a Kingdom, not a democracy. Catholicism is the only hope for each of us, our famiilies, our society, our country and the World. It’s not something we can just take lightly or ignore, as I see too commonly in society and sadly on this board as well.

Do you really think anyone is going to take your posts in this thread seriously and consider covnerting based on the rants of what appears to be one angry individual?

By chance, are you a fan of Art Sippo?

 

[distracted]

I don’t? So who’s this guy I pray to that I read about in the Bible? His name is Jesus Christ. He was born of a virgin, named Mary…and…well, basically I believe what the Apostle’s Creed says…Either way, you’re far too arrogant for me to continue talking to. Please, repent. I’d love to talk, but I will refuse until you grow up.

Funny thing, I was really considering Catholicism, and now I’m not. You’re such a good example…

from reading this poster’s posts… the one you are responding to… i noticed a long time ago that he did NOT phrase things correctly…

He should have siad “objectively speaking” one rejects Christ if one rejects HIs Church…

If a person doesn’t know that the RCC is the true Church established by Christ (and many do not because they are not taught… neither was i taught this … i had to study and teach myself…) then he is not guilty of rejecting Christ… and the RCC teaches this…

so poster’s comments are NOT official teahcing of the RCC…

which brings up the important point that you can’t believe what every so called Catholic or even a practicing Catholic says about …much of anything… Even practicing CAtholics can be wrong on things… although i myself am VERY careful about how i word things… you have to be…

it is best to attend RCIA classes but even then you run the risk of getting an unorthodox instructor… ther is a LOT of liberalism in the Church today… We need those who love the Bible and love truth…

i know what it feels like to want to leave the Church because of the awful behavior of its members… Its a wonder i am still in the Church

but in a way it is not a wonder … since i know that the RCC is the Church Christ established on Earth…

i feel sorry for those who are not so sure… I was once there. Though raised Catholic i was never catechized… and so i became very lost… very lost…

but i began to study things years ago… and now i am … w ell, found, i guess…

God bless…

 

[distracted]

t he is far more of a Christian than you are No Protestant needs anything Rome has to give.​

you have no way of knowing this…

and besides, some moderators will get you for saying such things…

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Geer, by all means, please maintain your peace. Calm yourself. I understand that you are angry. But, remember not to let your emotions control you. Satan loves when this happens. Remember the cross. Let His work make peace within you.

Remember, pray. Pray always. Especially for the opposition.

Godspeed.

Thanks A** lot** And the same to you, with all good wishes ​

 

[MDK]

Just as many others, buy into the lies of Papistry. my emphasis]​

If you can use inflammatory language such as the **phrases emphasised **- then so can others. Two - many - can play your game If you are at liberty to vomit on the dearest convictions of others, there is no point complaining if your own prejudices are trodden underfoot.

Gottle,
If the truth is inflammatory to you, then what does that say about your relationship with the truth? Only those ignorant of what is happening and lacking in zeal for truth will falsely accuse of “playing a game” of inflammatory language. The plank… it’s in your eye… please take it out before falsely accusing also of prejudice. It is great ignorance to assume this, and you’re missing out on possibly helping others by twisting what is being done. Please straighten up, for your sake first of all.

 

[MDK]

Jon and I don’t by any means agree on everything, but he is far more of a Christian than you are No Protestant needs anything Rome has to give.​

Only those who desire what Christ teaches need Rome. I do love and accept Christ as He taught, and so I accept and listen to the office of Christ’s Prime Minister. Sadly, you are gravely ignorant of Christ, as you do not understand authentic Christianity. This is what causes you to say these things which lack understanding of Christ and what He established. The ignorant will say they need nothing from Rome. Christ, on the other hand set His Prime Minister in Rome, and tells all those who love Him to listen to those He sent. Those who do not believe in authentic Christianity are not authentically Christian. So, you’re a little off course here… okay, a lot off course. Please come to the fullness of revealed truth, as Christ teaches through His one Catholic Church. By rejecting the Catholic teachings, you reject Christ.

 

[MDK]

Geer, by all means, please maintain your peace. Calm yourself. I understand that you are angry. But, remember not to let your emotions control you. Satan loves when this happens. Remember the cross. Let His work make peace within you.

Remember, pray. Pray always. Especially for the opposition.

Godspeed.

Thank you Tristan. That was a very beautiful sentiment.

The insight into that is that Gottle is acting as his/her own enemy by rejecting what Christ established for us. God gave us His Church so that we would not be defeated by Satan, and so this is where the victory is. The battle is already won. Which side will we be on, God and His Church (His Mystical Body) or with the enemy? We need to pray for each other, as I pray for you and Gottle.

 

[MDK]

Do you really think anyone is going to take your posts in this thread seriously and consider covnerting based on the rants of what appears to be one angry individual?

By chance, are you a fan of Art Sippo?

Semper,
Good to hear from you again. If you really understood the purpose and truth of this thread, you would likely not write as you did. Those “rants” happen to be the truth. It’s just sad that people are not really accustomed to straight and simple truth anymore, and have replaced it with all kinds of political correctness and the mistaken notion that God made many “churches” with conflicting doctrines. Simple reason will tell anyone that is just not the case.

The question about Art Sippo means you really don’t understand a thing I am doing here. Please go back and make an honest assessment using a little more of the reasoning God has given you

When you do understand as God has taught, and adopt His religion, then I’m lookiing forward to seeing your name as SemperCatholica. This would please Christ to have you in His Church.

 

[MDK]

Just as many others, buy into the lies of Papistry. my emphasis]…​

Jesus established the Papacy. As a consequence of your speech above, you’re calling Jesus a liar. I reject your false accusation against Christ, and will not stand for that. Christ is the Truth. Sadly, you do not understand the truth about Christ and so make these grave mistakes which can really be harmful to you, and are disrespectful to our Lord.

I believe as all who are authentically Christian that Jesus has a Prime Minister to rule His earthly Kingdom, the Church. Christ only built one Church, and established the office of Prime Minister (the rock of the Church), and this one Church will never be in error in faith and morals, and ministers all of His Seven beautiful Sacraments.

 

[Libertarian_FL]

Might I suggest reading 1 John 3 for what an Antichrist is ,what one would call a heretic, that would pretty much keep this debate simple.

As for me I support churches not denominations the former were common in the early Christian movement clearly in the Bible as instruments of God. Denominations however as in central authority, rules making and groups that dictated policy were not. Jesus Himself never said the Pharisees were a good thing did He? Unless I missed that somewhere. But Churches as in individual worship groups led by God were advised by the men and women of God.

But to keep this to a simple point we are to have the faith of a child, a pure faith that is easy and I will state any denomination that adds demands over that is not of God. I love God and trust Him through His Son and the Holy Spirits work with me that is enough. I don’t need to in a scholarly way tear open His work and the work of the Apostles and Disciples - just read their words. And let the Holy Spirit guide me. For that some call me a heretic to.

We are at war with Satan, for that we need faith and trust in God in the end or we will not be prepared for the onslaught that is coming.

 

[MDK]

Do you really think anyone is going to take your posts in this thread seriously and consider covnerting based on the rants of what appears to be one angry individual?

To provide more to the response, many people reject Christ all the time. If people seek the truth, and are ready to be awaken from their spritual slumber, then they will take the thread and posts seriously. Those who are comfortable with less than the truth, will likely criticize and grumble as they continue to spiritually sleepwalk past the truth and go to what they prefer.

To dismiss these as rants is to slumber past the passionate truth, and be unaffected by the truth. To misrepresent passionate concern as simple unguided venting anger is to continue the spiritual sleepwalking, trying not to be awaken by the rumblings of truth tugging at your conscience. Many people continue to push the snooze button and continue to spiritually sleep walk. Many people will miss the signs to wake up, and live in authentic Christianity, and prefer to live a dream where they create their own religion, saying they are bing guided by God, but it’s nothing more than their own preferences between God and their slumbering spirit.

 

[NotTooSmart]

Fascinating thread.

So to the extent that Protestants disagree with MDK, to that extent they are heretics. Got it.

Oh not quite. To the extent that Protestants disagree with the Catholic church, to that extent they are heretics. That is because MDK said so.

I see that the Protestant response here is one of conviction, begging to join RICA immediately. After all, they/we don’t want to be heretics and burnt (ah forgot this wasn’t the 1600s…sorry)…

Seriously, you guys really should have an internal “Evangelization of Protestants 101 class” or something similar. And successful completion of this class should be a requirement before you actually interact with us heretics on these boards.

Then you might know what type of arguments might be persuasive to getting us to repent of our heresy and avoid the flames (oops not 1600 again). “Because I said so” is not the type of argument they would teach in this 101 class.

 

[MDK]

Might I suggest reading 1 John 3 for what an Antichrist is ,what one would call a heretic, that would pretty much keep this debate simple.

As for me I support churches not denominations the former were common in the early Christian movement clearly in the Bible as instruments of God. Denominations however as in central authority, rules making and groups that dictated policy were not. Jesus Himself never said the Pharisees were a good thing did He? Unless I missed that somewhere. But Churches as in individual worship groups led by God were advised by the men and women of God.

But to keep this to a simple point we are to have the faith of a child, a pure faith that is easy and I will state any denomination that adds demands over that is not of God. I love God and trust Him through His Son and the Holy Spirits work with me that is enough. I don’t need to in a scholarly way tear open His work and the work of the Apostles and Disciples - just read their words. And let the Holy Spirit guide me. For that some call me a heretic to.

We are at war with Satan, for that we need faith and trust in God in the end or we will not be prepared for the onslaught that is coming.

We are supposed to be at war with Satan, but many are splitting off from Jesus, telling Jesus that they prefer their own reason over His teachings. Is that the unity that Christ prayed for? Did Jesus ask that we all have different doctrines and do what we want, as long as we can claim somehow that we got it from the Bible? These people will often miss pertinent things right in front of them.

For instance, this thread is not about identifying heretics (individuals). It is about identifying heresy, and getting away from it before you embrace it… or to completely stop embracing heresy if you already have.

We must not ebrace or promote in any way an obstinate denial of some truth that must be believed with divine faith. We must not deny a matter that has been revealed by God and solemnly defined by the Church with His Authority (for example, the Trinity, the Incarnation, the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, the sacrifice of the Mass, the pope’s infallibility, or the Immaculate Conception and Assumption of Mary).

Common heretical teachings shown below. If your ecclesial community teaches any of these, you’re not in the one Chruch built by Christ:

Heresy - believing that more than one “church” was built or intend by Christ.

Heresy - the Bible Alone is our rule of faith.

Heresy - We are the final interpreters of Scripture

Heresy - All we need to do is read Scripture and God will send His Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth.

Heresy - We are saved by faith alone.

Heresy - We can earn Heaven by good works.

Heresy - the mass resacrifices Christ.

Heresy - We can decide for ourselves what Christ taught.

Heresy - Once saved, always saved.

Heresy - Jesus didn’t establish Peter as head of the Apostles

Heresy - The Lord’s Supper is just symbolic

Heresy - Jesus did not establish the priesthood

Heresy - Jesus’ death is “once and done” instead of once for all time.

Heresy - Mary was not Immaculately Conceived.

Heresy - Mary was not ever Virgin.

Heresy - Jesus was born with original sin.

Heresy - Jesus the King’s Prime Minister on Earth is not infallible on matters of faith and morals binding on all the faithful

Heresy - Christ is not the High Priest of His Church

Heresy - Christ is not the Sacrifice of His Church

Heresy - Christ is not the King of His Church

 

[workingman]

Fascinating thread.

So to the extent that Protestants disagree with MDK, to that extent they are heretics. Got it.

Oh not quite. To the extent that Protestants disagree with the Catholic church, to that extent they are heretics. That is because MDK said so.

I see that the Protestant response here is one of conviction, begging to join RICA immediately. After all, they/we don’t want to be heretics and burnt (ah forgot this wasn’t the 1600s…sorry)…

Seriously, you guys really should have an internal “Evangelization of Protestants 101 class” or something similar. And successful completion of this class should be a requirement before you actually interact with us heretics on these boards.

Then you might know what type of arguments might be persuasive to getting us to repent of our heresy and avoid the flames (oops not 1600 again). “Because I said so” is not the type of argument they would teach in this 101 class.

:clapping:
NotTooSmart, I must agree not that I always convey my messages properly, but this posting of what MDK calls truth I just found dumbfounding. Just remember with out you heretics this would be a boring board. Now let me go get my pile of wood and stake with a little kerosene

 

[NotTooSmart]

:clapping:
NotTooSmart, I must agree not that I always convey my messages properly, but this posting of what MDK calls truth I just found dumbfounding. Just remember with out you heretics this would be a boring board. Now let me go get my pile of wood and stake with a little kerosene

Use wood that is not totally dry yet. It will prolong the anguish of your poor heretic.

At least this is what John Calvin did with Michael Servetus as I recall reading somewhere.

 

[MDK]

Fascinating thread.

The truth is indeed fascinating.

So to the extent that Protestants disagree with MDK, to that extent they are heretics. Got it.

That is true only if I am completely faithfully telling you Catholicism. Catholicism is the teachings of Christ, as He taught His Apostles and which has been handed down faithfully for 2,000 years. The New Testament was written by inspired Catholic men. There was not one Protestant among the writers of the New Testament. There was not one Protestant in the early Church. There was not one Protestant in the upper room on Pentecost. There were no Protestants for the first 1,500 years of authentic Christianity. That authentic Christianity made it through the Protestant revolt unscathed, and still teaches the faith of the Apostles. Why? Because Jesus promised that the gates of Hell would never prevail against His Church, (the one built with no Protestants).

Sadly, you really haven’t “got it.”

Oh not quite. To the extent that Protestants disagree with the Catholic church, to that extent they are heretics. That is because MDK said so.

If I am faithful to Christ, then yes. But, this is because of Christ, and nothing I invented.

You do miss the focus of this thread, which is not about finding heretics. It’s about getting away from heresy (heretical teachings) and coming to the fullness of truth available only in God’s Catholic Church.

I see that the Protestant response here is one of conviction, begging to join RICA immediately. After all, they/we don’t want to be heretics and burnt (ah forgot this wasn’t the 1600s…sorry)…

If they were smart enough to overcome any obstacle to get to authentic knowledge and Sacraments of Christ, that would be the case. The observant and honest person would notice that the thread is not about finding heretics, but avoiding heretical teachings and being in God’s one Church where He is Present like nowhere else on Earth.

Seriously, you guys really should have an internal “Evangelization of Protestants 101 class” or something similar. And successful completion of this class should be a requirement before you actually interact with us heretics on these boards.

The Holy Spirit moves souls of those willing to be moved, instead of clinging to some obstacle like their own pride. The observant and honest person would realize this thread is not about finding heretics, but coming to know and love Christ more fully, as only we can in His Church, fully part of His Mystical Body.

Then you might know what type of arguments might be persuasive to getting us to repent of our heresy and avoid the flames (oops not 1600 again). “Because I said so” is not the type of argument they would teach in this 101 class.

If you’re not persuaded by the truth of Christ and His Real and True Substantial Presence in the Holy Eucharist, then you will never be moved. At that point, you are not really looking for Christ, but some Christ substitute to suit yourself.