I’ve spoken to a LOT of Catholics about this, too (both before and after I became Catholic), and I’ve never come across the idea that the prayer for Russia was concerning conversion from Orthodoxy to Catholicism. The idea that the promised conversion referred to a triumph over communism has been consistent.
The idea that Russia “became Orthodox” after the fall of communism is a riot! I may not be a big fan of the MP but let’s face it: Russia was Christian (and Orthodox) for quite some years before communism.
But was it so DURING communism? Most assuredly not. One can make a pretty good case that it still isn’t an Orthodox nation, given the social climate.
Exactly. The prayer requests as both Sister Lucy and the late Holy Father John Paul II have interpreted them were prrimarily directed at the fall of godless atheistic communism. Certainly one should not cease to pray especially for the social climate. On the other hand Catholics should not sensibly believe Fatima is for a conversion to a specifically Latin Catholicism since numerous Magisterial documents laud the Eastern tradition and there are Eastern Catholic clergy working within the former USSR.
Pax!
Albeit that I’m not Slavic, I do know that. Had the MP been a thorn in the side of Soviet Union, it would, of course, been suppressed. (The UGCC comes to mind here.) Which it wasn’t. From that, one could make a pretty good case that the MP didn’t change much under Soviet Union from it’s position in Imperial Russia. But, at the same time, the political involvement of the MP with, and its support of, the Soviet state doesn’t negate the fact that the faithful adhered to Orthodox Christianity.
Despite the unfounded claims (and the never-to-be-fulfilled desires) of the evangelicals, one can make the same case in the US too. But that’s OK by me: I’m not into theocracy.
Yes, I know that too. Could it perhaps be the case that the Holy Virgin was speaking to the next 70+ years of Soviet tyranny?
Albeit that I’m not Slavic, I do know that. Had the MP been a thorn in the side of Soviet Union, it would, of course, been suppressed. (The UGCC comes to mind here.) Which it wasn’t. From that, one could make a pretty good case that the MP didn’t change much under Soviet Union from it’s position in Imperial Russia. But, at the same time, the political involvement of the MP with, and its support of, the Soviet state doesn’t negate the fact that the faithful adhered to Orthodox Christianity…quote]
One can easily point to the unorthodox behaviors of the Imperial Family ca 1903-1917, and their haphazard attempts to impose Russian Orthodoxy that they themselves didn’t follow upon the whole of their faithful. (The cult of Rasputin… )
More telling, however, was the rather large portion of the Imperial subjects who were not Russian Orthodox; a significant part of the Empire was muslim, and a small but vocal jewish urban minorty existed. Plus a western minority of Greek-Catholics in several western regions.
malphono;5597982:
The fundamental premises of the US were built upon freedom of which non-catholic christian sect to belong to, not an absolute freedom of religion. Absolute freedom to practice one’s faith is a later judicial accretion.
Considering that the socialist revolution realistically begins in 1905… with the Russo-Japanese War, and the dissolution of the Duma… that Russia was falling to some form of socialist state was highly probable even by 1910; 1917 is simply the point where the Royals fell. 1919 is the point by which the revolution was clearly going to the Communists, and 1922 sees the change from the Russian Government to the USSR.Yes, I know that too. Could it perhaps be the case that the Holy Virgin was speaking to the next 70+ years of Soviet tyranny?
It is highly likely, if indeed the visions are authentic, that Lenin’s desire for revolution were already formed, and thus accessible to Our Lady.
And if not authentic, it’s not implausible for someone aware of the events to have forseen the fall to the socialists. It was, after all, a 12 year process of disintegration of the civil structure in the urban heart of Russia…
Yes indeed, but such behaviour was certainly not the unique property of the Romanoffs nor of Russia. It was/is rather “normal” where “state religions” are the rule.
It was not my intent to intimate that all of Russia was Orthodox. The state was. Certainly not all of the inhabitants, particularly those who are not ethnically Slavic.
Except in Maryland. And let’s nor forget Rhode Island.
Beyond agreeing in substance with what I said earlier, I’ve no clue what the point of that is.
sigh I didn’t want to bring this thread away from its original topic, but I find it very hard to let others have the last say when it’s something I have a problem with. Sometimes I wish God had made me less competitive… Hope this doesn’t offend…
That’s always been common knowlegde, or so I thought. I suggest you research the Garabandal events before you reject them. They are very interesting, and I have found that they have actually brought me closer to the Lord. Our Lady preached penance and prayer at Garabandal. What’s wrong with that?
Cool! I don’t suppose you know where I could gain access to the clippings???
I think she was referring to the rise of communism in Russia, which was spread by the Soviet Union to Eastern Europe, and the Soviets (and communists) did persecute Christians, as well as other religions.
Thank you for voicing the legitimate concerns .
) … it might have something to do with what we could call conversion of our own interior ’ Russias ’ too - where there is need for more unity , with God and each other …more fidelity and love for The Church and Holy Father …willingness to give up what is not of God , even if it happens to be traditons or favored new apparitions …The light appeared on January 25, 1938. I significant political event (unpublished at the time) occurred involving Russia and Germany which occurred on that date that precipitated WW2. Do a search on the name Rakovsky.
Dear Big Brother Marduk. Coincidentally, we just touched on the whole subject of the Stalin/Hitler Pact in a thread in the secular news subforum that I started, so I have some familiarity with the history of that time. The only Rakovsky I know about at this time was the Communist Leader Christian Rakovsky who was under arrest in Stalin’s Russia at the time so I do not believe he was of much consequence in the late 1930s with respect to German/Russian relations. Did you have another Rakovsky in mind? I’m pretty familiar with significant historical events of that time period (the Stalin/Hitler Pact was August '39), so what happened in January 1939? Just curious if you know something my little brain doesn’t know about?
Blessings. Andrew.