How to re-educate so that people will understand about abortion?

[Drawmack]

I realize that you have perceived that you have had a troubled life. But the activity you described is not the norm. We should not be promoting such activity as normal and expected. We should describe it as a rare situation that must be dealt with severly. And just because someone has had a bad life it does not give them a license to kill.

While I agree with your assessment of Limerick, I do not agree with your statement about this being all that rare. 1 in 4 children will be solicited on line before the age of 18. I’m fairly certain that current statistics are 1 in 5 or 1 in 6 women will be raped before the age of 25. Now, I agree that these are not the norm, but I would hardly call them rare either.

 

[Drawmack]

**Who called you a drunk? Who said you beat your kid? And what does either have to do with kids wanting autonomy and individuality?

Limerick**

If I grew up as a carbon copy of my father, I would be a drunk who beats my kids. I am not a drunk who beats my kids. Therefore, I know – FULL WELL – that some children do not grow up as carbon copies of their parents. A touch of critical though should have been able to reveal this to you from the original post.

 

[St_Francis]

Royal Archer: Yes, we know some nice young (20 something) girls who have been convinced that they have to sleep around to be liked and as a result they are having a hard time finding meaningful relationships. I have seen how this has negatively impacted their lives and * hope that others do not fall into the same trap.

Limerick: Hope. Is that all you bring to the table?

Me: Do you have some other suggestions?

**How about post # 31, or did you just gloss over that one in your sprint to the CommentFest?

Limerick**

Your disdain is showing…*

 

[St_Francis]

Royal Archer: Yes, we know some nice young (20 something) girls who have been convinced that they have to sleep around to be liked and as a result they are having a hard time finding meaningful relationships. I have seen how this has negatively impacted their lives and * hope that others do not fall into the same trap.

Limerick: Hope. Is that all you bring to the table?

Me: Do you have some other suggestions?

**How about post # 31, or did you just gloss over that one in your sprint to the CommentFest?

Limerick**

You had suggestions to help young women to realize that they don’t need to sleep around in that post? Sounded to me like a polemic against men.*

 

[limerick]

If I grew up as a carbon copy of my father, I would be a drunk who beats my kids. I am not a drunk who beats my kids. Therefore, I know – FULL WELL – that some children do not grow up as carbon copies of their parents. A touch of critical though should have been able to reveal this to you from the original post.

**Sorry, man, I tend to forget histories that don’t have a lot of punch and drama.

“A touch of critical”? Come again?

Limerick**

 

[Drawmack]

**Sorry, man, I tend to forget histories that don’t have a lot of punch and drama.

“A touch of critical”? Come again?

Limerick**

I don’t appreciate the cheap pun.

However my post should have read “a touch of critical thought” and not “a touch of critical though” – sorry about that.

 

[kesa82]

Well, it might help to understand first that a state, like a person, wishes to survive another day. But, unlike a person, a state is incapable of love .
The state is all about power. That’s not just my opinion, your own George Washington said so.
The state is not at all interested in sharing power with the church, or with the individual parent.
You are , like it or not, the educators, not that brick building down the street that’s full of people who are there to collect the paycheck.
If you want altruism, look in the mirror, not at a flag.

 

[royal_archer]

While I agree with your assessment of Limerick, I do not agree with your statement about this being all that rare. 1 in 4 children will be solicited on line before the age of 18. I’m fairly certain that current statistics are 1 in 5 or 1 in 6 women will be raped before the age of 25. Now, I agree that these are not the norm, but I would hardly call them rare either.

Keep in mind the original discussion was addressing how things should be portrayed in the media. To that extent I believe that the media should portray good as the norm. To do otherwise would set the stage of “everyone else is doing it.” We should not give any ground in portraying this as normal because the next step will be that people will want it considered acceptable.

While I am sure you statistics are accurate, I would like to better understand the context. When I looked up the mumbers I got a stat of .4 rapes per 1000 people per year (wikpedia) I am not saying they are a reliable source but that rate seems more probable than your numbers. Could you please provid a reference for your numbers.

 

[kesa82]

Can we all agree that there are bad apples on both sides of the sexual divide? That there are young men doing bad things to young women, and that there are young women doing bad things to young men?

No.

Like Hitler proved, scapegoating works.

 

[kesa82]

Hmm, how to re-educated people about abortion ?

How about … what you are already doing?

the impression I get here is that thousands apon thousands either overtly endorse abortion, or just look the other way.

That is not my experience AT ALL.

perhaps its the area I live in, or the social circles I move in, except that I have lived in many places, and staunch Catholics have not been the majority of my associates, not by a long shot. I’ve known rich and poor, young and old, conservative and liberal, homebodies and libertines, I’ve even met a few Communists and Nazis.

I will risk venturing to say that at least 70% of the population, if at least asked privately, acknowledge that abortion is murder.

Roe v. Wade stands because your government sees fit to do what it darn well pleases.
never mind your enlightened education, never mind your opinion, never mind your vote.

It looks like a lot of dancing around the subject to me.

 

[St_Francis]

Hmm, how to re-educated people about abortion ?

How about … what you are already doing?

the impression I get here is that thousands apon thousands either overtly endorse abortion, or just look the other way.

That is not my experience AT ALL.

perhaps its the area I live in, or the social circles I move in, except that I have lived in many places, and staunch Catholics have not been the majority of my associates, not by a long shot. I’ve known rich and poor, young and old, conservative and liberal, homebodies and libertines, I’ve even met a few Communists and Nazis.

I will risk venturing to say that at least 70% of the population, if at least asked privately, acknowledge that abortion is murder.

Roe v. Wade stands because your government sees fit to do what it darn well pleases.
never mind your enlightened education, never mind your opinion, never mind your vote.

It looks like a lot of dancing around the subject to me.

Well, this is an interesting point.

Over the course of many decades I too have met many people, and what I found was the their ideas went according to “group.” People who wanted to engage in all different sorts of bad behavior, feminists and other very liberal types, those who prided themselves on their intellectuality, mostly tended to be pro-life.

And guess who’s in charge of our media and education? The last two of those groups.

I think that you have been lucky to have met so many people who are what I would call normal, but sometimes even those who will admit that abortion is wrong will take advantage of the fact that it’s a legal option when it comes to a “hard case;” and the difficulty of the situation is reduced according to how close the person is to them.

I say this because there are those who have *changed their minds. *Seriously. The only reason that I can think of for such a strong turn-around is that they or someone close to them had an abortion and they no longer *want *to see the wrongfulness of abortion.

 

[limerick]

I don’t appreciate the cheap pun.

However my post should have read “a touch of critical thought” and not “a touch of critical though” – sorry about that.

**Didn’t mean anything as a pun. I didn’t even think of that until you mentioned it. Apologies.

L**

 

[limerick]

Keep in mind the original discussion was addressing how things should be portrayed in the media. To that extent I believe that the media should portray good as the norm. To do otherwise would set the stage of “everyone else is doing it.” We should not give any ground in portraying this as normal because the next step will be that people will want it considered acceptable.

While I am sure you statistics are accurate, I would like to better understand the context. When I looked up the mumbers I got a stat of .4 rapes per 1000 people per year (wikpedia) I am not saying they are a reliable source but that rate seems more probable than your numbers. Could you please provid a reference for your numbers.

**Just for clarity: The title of the thread mentions nothing about the media. Newcomers to the thread may jump in without being aware that media are being scrutinized here.

Limerick**

 

[limerick]

Hmm, how to re-educated people about abortion ?

How about … what you are already doing?

the impression I get here is that thousands apon thousands either overtly endorse abortion, or just look the other way.

That is not my experience AT ALL.

perhaps its the area I live in, or the social circles I move in, except that I have lived in many places, and staunch Catholics have not been the majority of my associates, not by a long shot. I’ve known rich and poor, young and old, conservative and liberal, homebodies and libertines, I’ve even met a few Communists and Nazis.

I will risk venturing to say that at least 70% of the population, if at least asked privately, acknowledge that abortion is murder.

Roe v. Wade stands because your government sees fit to do what it darn well pleases.
never mind your enlightened education, never mind your opinion, never mind your vote.

It looks like a lot of dancing around the subject to me.

And your government? How is your government addressing the subject?

Limerick

 

[kesa82]

And your government? How is your government addressing the subject?

Limerick

restore that government and I will, of course, answer the question.

I gather from previous statements that you have made that you aren’t married ?

Your question is like if I asked you, " what is your husbands opinion?."

 

[kesa82]

And guess who’s in charge of our media and education? The last two of those groups.
.

I would say that the media is primary controlled by capitalists, whose primary agenda is making money.
( this is not, in any way, to suggest that Bolshevik media barons have cleaner motives. In my experience they are, if anything, greedier. )
In my experience most school teachers at the elementary and secondary level are at least nominally christian, at least 40% of those are conservative ?
But in any case socially accommodating conformists.
misfits or mavericks are weeded out. ( or they skip the politics and go teach in private schools for LESS money )
In any case , this “profession” buiseness, This smog of hot air that college graduates invariably seem to throw up, apparently obscures somehow the fact that teaching is a JOB. Teachers teach for the same reason that plumbers lay pipe and hamburger flippers make Big Macs ; for the paycheck.
If that were not so, minimum wage would be sufficient for them.

 

[Drawmack]

Keep in mind the original discussion was addressing how things should be portrayed in the media. To that extent I believe that the media should portray good as the norm. To do otherwise would set the stage of “everyone else is doing it.” We should not give any ground in portraying this as normal because the next step will be that people will want it considered acceptable.

While I am sure you statistics are accurate, I would like to better understand the context. When I looked up the mumbers I got a stat of .4 rapes per 1000 people per year (wikpedia) I am not saying they are a reliable source but that rate seems more probable than your numbers. Could you please provid a reference for your numbers.

Well, 1 in 4 children being solicited is easy to find at pervertedjustice.com. I said 1 in 5 or 1 in 6 women by the age of 25 and also that I wasn’t certain of those numbers. But, if 4 in 1000 are raped every year, over 25 years that’s 100 of 1000 which makes that a 1 in 10. It’s not all that different than mine. But, here are some sources.

According to feminist.com/antiviolence/facts.html 17.6% of U.S. women survived a completed or attempted rape. That’s just about 1/6. Granted this could be slanted and it does include attempted.

According to ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/press/crv92.pr there were 109,000 reported rapes in 1992. Mind that is only reported, it doesn’t account for the rapes that were not which many experts believe is the majority of them when you get into spousal and familial rape. This has break downs by age of the victim to which is sobering to say the least.

According to csip.wayne.edu/sexualassault_facts.php 20% of college girls will report being raped during their college career, that’s 1 in 5 and it’s only reported which means the actual number is higher.

I am not arguing with you about not projecting it on TV as the norm. But, I do think it should be portrayed realistically on TV. I think that exposing the true depth and breadth of this most heinous of acts and shining a spotlight on it might get people to start acting it. It could also help destigmatize the victims, which would lead to more, and quicker, reporting of the crime.

However, we should drop this because this is a thread about abortion not rape. Sorry for the divergence guys.

 

[Drawmack]

**Didn’t mean anything as a pun. I didn’t even think of that until you mentioned it. Apologies.

L**

No big deal, thank you.

 

[Drawmack]

I would say that the media is primary controlled by capitalists, whose primary agenda is making money.
( this is not, in any way, to suggest that Bolshevik media barons have cleaner motives. In my experience they are, if anything, greedier. )
In my experience most school teachers at the elementary and secondary level are at least nominally christian, at least 40% of those are conservative ?
But in any case socially accommodating conformists.
misfits or mavericks are weeded out. ( or they skip the politics and go teach in private schools for LESS money )
In any case , this “profession” buiseness, This smog of hot air that college graduates invariably seem to throw up, apparently obscures somehow the fact that teaching is a JOB. Teachers teach for the same reason that plumbers lay pipe and hamburger flippers make Big Macs ; for the paycheck.
If that were not so, minimum wage would be sufficient for them.

Do not lump all college graduates into that crowd, generalizing in this way borders on prejudice and bigotry. Especially since, if you do your research, you’ll find many more teachers that are college graduates than that are not.

 

[kesa82]

Do not lump all college graduates into that crowd, generalizing in this way borders on prejudice and bigotry. Especially since, if you do your research, you’ll find many more teachers that are college graduates than that are not.

If I address each one separately the result is what, 10,000 pages ? More ? I generalize for brevity sake the same as you do.

If , however, I erase the part that you have highlighted in bold print, does that in any significant degree alter the meaning of the statement ?
Nope.
( so erase the highlighted part if you wish. I don’t mind. )
If there is bigotry, I’m inclined to think it lies in the inference that some jobs are more equal than others.