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Drawmack
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Not all of them, those were the ones pertinent to this thread and so the only ones I discussed here.
How to re-educate so that people will understand about abortion?
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allhers
Guest
We are also all responsible to find out the truth and to act on it. We aren’t to act on a doubtful conscious. God has written it into our hearts, so even if one didn’t claim to know the truth, their conscious would act in ways to tell them and therefore they would have doubts.
Perhaps no one ever told them, did they bother to try to find out on their own?
Perhaps someone misinformed them, did they seek the truth of the matter. Perhaps…
lots of things happened to deter them from the truth, now though, in this day and age…what I am saying is that if they can read our posts they can click on those links and be fully informed of what the Catholic Church teaches, which is the handing on of the teachings of Jesus.
I am Catholic, I believe that, I have no doubts, but when I don’t fully understand something I can read it, as I have most of that in my own home (Bible, Cathechism, and some information from the sites I listed. I can even get news from the Vatican on the World Over on EWTN television.
We are to find out the truth and then and only then, with an rightly informed conscious, act.
There have been many times in my life in the past that I didn’t either understand this or know this or forgot this or ignored this, but…once I understood this, I was responsible for any actions, thoughts or words that I may make, think or say. I need to go to the Sacrament of Confession when I don’t do what is required of me, most of the time now though, with the grace of God, I do seek the truth first, I don’t want to offend God and I am truly sorry for all the times in the past that I didn’t first seek the truth when I really could have.
There also were times I was misinformed, I don’t think on purpose, but at times many were confused. Some said what they heard, and they believed it, it wasn’t like they were trying to misinform, some just didn’t know and some probably did just outright lie or give their opinion. Who knows.
Sometimes that still happens to some people who don’t know the truth, it looks to me like you try to misinform more than that you are trying to seek truth. It’s hard to tell someimes on the internet what one’s true intentions are.
I, being a fully informed Catholic on most things, do know that those sites I listed above are true to the teachings of the Catholic Church, one of them is the Vatican web site itself.
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WillieWonka
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*Allhers: Sometimes that still happens to some people who don’t know the truth, it looks to me like **you try to misinform *more than that you are trying to seek truth. It’s hard to tell someimes on the internet what one’s true intentions are.
Could you tell us where I am misinforming?
Could you tell us where I am misinforming?
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Nino
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Private matter.As I used to tell my students, I dont care what you do from friday nite to monday am.juice it up,mainline ,big deal…but if on monday am you are a bus driver and still half stoned and my kids get on your bus.then I Care!..Its so weird that pro-baby killing Obama speaks to the naacp about slavery and is not hissed off of the stage. Slavery was the owner ship of one human being over another…that one being having life and death control…thats what abortion is…the temporary host having legal right to murder the developing baby inside of her.So first ask what the person to define slavery…then ask this person if he/she is against slavery…then illustrate how the new life inside of a woman is a seperate human being with nerves,a heart,fingers,a soul. The Person in the amendment against slavery had to be re -defined in order to circumvent the anti-slavery intent…after all the 600,000 casualties from the civil war had to be accounted for! .all of this is elementery any way,the new hate crimes law makes those of us…who are anti-abortion,pro-second amendment and vets…‘potential terrorists’ and thus have to be tracked…so conversations like this may well be dangerous to ones health if one is not PC…have a nice day…
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allhers
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It appears that way to me from the other threads where I have seen others and myself explain something to you, and yet, you still ask the same thing or say the same thing later. It appears as if you didn’t even read what someone provided for you.
Some of us actually take the time to research things for you and others and then it just looks like you didn’t even care enough to acknowledge it by saying a few posts later, or in another thread the same thing again. Perhaps you are just looking for opinions, but its best to seek the truth and that is why I suggested the sites I did. Happy reading.
If you are sincere, read them, if you’re just looking for opinons, everybody has one, and sometimes they are wrong. Not everybody even on a Catholic site is Catholic, as you well know, they don’t have to be. Even most Catholics don’t understand it all, we are, as a good Priest I know once said, “students for life.”
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WillieWonka
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So, where do I misinform? That’s a harsh accusation. What specific misinformation?It appears that way to me from the other threads where I have seen others and myself explain something to you, and yet, you still ask the same thing or say the same thing later. It appears as if you didn’t even read what someone provided for you.
Some of us actually take the time to research things for you and others and then it just looks like you didn’t even care enough to acknowledge it by saying a few posts later, or in another thread the same thing again. Perhaps you are just looking for opinions, but its best to seek the truth and that is why I suggested the sites I did. Happy reading.
If you are sincere, read them, if you’re just looking for opinons, everybody has one, and sometimes they are wrong. Not everybody even on a Catholic site is Catholic, as you well know, they don’t have to be. Even most Catholics don’t understand it all, we are, as a good Priest I know once said, “students for life.”
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St_Francis
Guest
I am sorry you did not stay in the Catholic Church to work these issues out. What I found was that when I had some problem with a teaching it would generally resolve itself with prayer, meditation, and research, but oddly enough, the prayer and meditation were often more of a factor than the research. Some questions were answered quickly, and others took a long time, but they were all answered, and now I have confidence that any questions I have will be answered.
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Drawmack
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I am glad that you have such confidence and faith in your religion. This is the reason that I will talk about my problems with the Catholic Church here, among a mostly Catholic audience, but when I am with Protestants my response to any questions about Catholicism or why I left the Catholic Church is, “Catholics firmly believe that they are doing God’s will, they firmly believe in what they profess and teach. If you would like to know what they teach I will be more than happy to loan you one of my Catechisms and a Catholic Bible, but I will not speak badly of them or their teachings.”
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St_Francis
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it’s good that you are continuing the grapple with those questions, and I hope that you will find answers for them.
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Christopher68
Guest
In this particular situation, I understand why many people react with visceral disgust at the actions of the stepfather and consider it worse.
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allhers
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Perhaps this is why abortion is an automatic excommunication, so that everyone will
understand why God reacts with profound disgust at the murdering of an innocent life.
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Drawmack
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My biggest problem is that without the actions of the step-father the abortions could not have happened. He is, or his actions are as the case may be, the root cause of the abortions. So why wasn’t he excommunicated as well? I could voice my opinion, but I won’t I’ll leave it as a question for the reader to consider.
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St_Francis
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The problem that you don’t seem to see is that some things are known to put a person in a state of mortal sin, and others are not. The rapist is not in a better state vis a vis the Church than those whose excommunication was announced–he is in a state of mortal sin.
At this point, you do not seem to be trying to understand the Church’s point of view as much as you are trying to use the point to paint the Catholic Church in a bad light. I could be misunderstanding what you are doing, but that is the impression that I am beginning to have from the way your comments are worded and what is shown in your comments about the general trend of your thinking.
That makes no logical sense.
His actions directly resulted in a pregnancy, not an abortion.
The root cause of the abortion was the choice to abort.
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Drawmack
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You can take my comments any way you want, I really don’t care what mindset you wish to ascribe to me.
The simple fact is, the doctors and mother were excommunicated – publicly excommunicated and thereby publicly stigmatized by the Church. The Church has remained complicitly silent on the step-father’s actions, which are the root cause of the abortion and are also a heinous crime (both moral and legal) in and of themselves.
I cannot accept that this is the type of thing Jesus had in mind when he founded a Church. I cannot accept that those actions are anything even remotely resembling an ordinance of God.
I am not trying to paint the Catholic Church in any light. I am simply saying what the Catholic Church did – which is not disputable – and why I cannot accept that – I have repeatedly said I cannot accept this – No, I am not trying to understand the Catholic Church’s position – I have spent innumerable hours in prayer and counsel trying to understand and accept the Catholic Church’s position – I cannot accept that the Catholic Church’s actions in this matter are anything short of an affront to Jesus. That is how I see it. I’m not painting the Catholic Church in any light, they have painted the picture I’m just looking at it and explaining what I see.
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Drawmack
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Can you get an abortion without being pregnant? As I have said multiple times on this thread. You can justify the actions of the Catholic Church anyway you need to in order to justify your faith in the primacy of the magisterium. I won’t!
Nope. But you also cannot run over someone without a car. Shall we blame General Motors for hit and run accidents?
The facts as given indicate that he had nothing at all to do with the abortion.
And rightly so. The church acted in an appropriate manner here.
And it is not faith in the magistarium, it is faith in God and the Church God provided for us.
You claim the church teaches something that the church does not.
Yet you refuse to provide documentation to back this claim.
Instead, you keep harping on this incident, as though it is the entirety of church teaching. Any Catholic can tell you that the appropriate place to find church teaching is within the Catechism, not the newspaper.
Seems to me that you are the one trying to justify yourself against the Church.
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GratefulFred
Guest
RE EDUCATE:
REAL MEN PROTECT AND PROVIDE FOR THEIR WOMEN AND CHILDREN.
Why is it that I read so very little about the FATHER’S ROLE in preventing abortions?
REAL MEN PROTECT AND PROVIDE FOR THEIR WOMEN AND CHILDREN.
Why is it that I read so very little about the FATHER’S ROLE in preventing abortions?
Perhaps because those of the pro-abortion side of the argument do not want anyone attempting to prevent the abortion. Granting the father some power in the decision counters this “freedom” to kill.
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Drawmack
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I would like to point out that a couple posts ago vz called abortion a choice and that now they are refusing to use the term pro-choice. Which is it vz, is it a chioce or not?
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