How to re-educate so that people will understand about abortion?

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Nope. But you also cannot run over someone without a car. Shall we blame General Motors for hit and run accidents? The facts as given indicate that he had nothing at all to do with the abortion.
Okay, that is a very good point. This is a perfect example of why the fact that the man was the girl’s step-father should not be used to paint marriage in a poor light, the fact that the man was married does not mean that all married men will be baby rapers. However, this man raped his step-child for three years, as a direct result she became pregnant.
And rightly so. The church acted in an appropriate manner here.
And it is not faith in the magistarium, it is faith in God and the Church God provided for us.
Right!
You claim the church teaches something that the church does not.
Yet you refuse to provide documentation to back this claim.
It has been provided on this thread. There was a list of infractions which incur the penalty of latae sententiae excommunication, abortion was on that list and child molestation was not. I am, and have been, saying that the Catholic Church teaches that abortion is an excommunicable offense and raping a 6 year old is not. This is a teaching of the Catholic Church. I do not care if you accept it as such or not. I do not care what you want to say about me. Just be aware that it is the teaching of the Church – period!
 
I am, and have been, saying that the Catholic Church teaches that abortion is an excommunicable offense and raping a 6 year old is not.
Find it in the Catechism.
Put up, or shut up. You credibility was on the line long ago.
Let’s see if you can piece something together with the tattered remains of your integrity.
 
I would like to point out that a couple posts ago vz called abortion a choice and that now they are refusing to use the term pro-choice. Which is it vz, is it a chioce or not?
The term is properly pro-abortion. Those that do not consider abortion an option do not need the father’s (name removed by moderator)ut in the decision to take a life.
 
Does it specifically state that raping a 6 year old is not an excommunicable offense?
I didn’t see that. Take a look. It also relates an interesting history of excommunication.
 
Find it in the Catechism.
So, if I can’t find it in the Catechism then it is not a teaching of the Church? If that is the case could you please support the things you have said about excommunication being used to remind people of the gravity of a sin, where it is not universally accepted as grave, in the Catechism. What if I can find it in the Catholic encyclopedia? Will that suffice?
Put up, or shut up. You credibility was on the line long ago.
Let’s see if you can piece something together with the tattered remains of your integrity.
“Just as exile presupposes a crime, excommunication presupposes a grievous external fault. Not only would it be wrong for a Christian to be punished without having committed a punishable act, but justice demands a proportion between the offence and the penalty; hence the most serious of spiritual chastisements, i.e. forfeiture of all the privileges common to Christians, is inconceivable unless for a grave fault.” - newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm

According to this “a proportion between the offence and the penalty” exists. So, if a penalty incurs latae sententiae excommunication is must, by this definition, be an offense that it so heinous that no possible mitigating circumstances could make it appropriate. If an offense is not on the list of penalties that incurs latae sententiae excommunication it must, also by this definition, not be less grave than things that are on the list.

The list from newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm clearly states what crimes are considered proportionally grave to incur excommunication. It is only reasonable that those crimes not included in the list are not proportionally grave to incur excommunication. Please note that abortion is on the list, pulling the Pope’s hair is on the list, reading a heretical work is on the list, raping a 6 year old is not on the list. You continually ask where it specifically says it is forbidden, I ask where has the Catholic Church taken the time to specifically state that raping a 6 year old incurs excommunication? Surely given 2,000 years they have been able to come up with a list of all the offense they find grave enough to incur excommunication – where is one reference to raping a 6 year old on any of those lists?

Maybe you can piece together an answer with your tattered credibility which will show where the Catholic Church has bothered to state that raping a 6 year old is an excommunicatable offense.
 
You can take my comments any way you want, I really don’t care what mindset you wish to ascribe to me.
Just letting you know what sort of impression you are giving. It may have been that you did not want to give that impression.
The simple fact is, the doctors and mother were excommunicated – publicly excommunicated and thereby publicly stigmatized by the Church.
OK, so you think that now everybody will treat the doctors as if they have the plague, but welcome the rapist with open arms?

The rapist is already stigmatized! No one needs to be informed that he is a hideous person–everyone agrees about that.

It may be that you do not understand how the Church works. The Church reacts to problems. In the area of theology, for example, Protestants make much of the fact that it was not until the 1600s Council of Trent that transubstantiation was fully defined. Well, the reason for that was that until the 1500s, there was no need to define it, there was no controversy, no problem.

In the same way, there is no problem with the rapist’s status: *everyone agrees that he did a terrible thing. *There is no need to point that out because it is already perfectly clear.

However, people have been questioning the sinfulness of abortion for a really long time. It is not clear to everyone that abortion is a heinous act. The only people trying to justify child sexual abuse are those who are already so sickening that everybody with an ounce of normality thinks that they are the very worst of grotesque perverts. A person who rapes children is already understood to be someone to be avoided, someone you don’t want around your children, and certainly not someone you want to listen to. But this is not the case with those who advocate abortion, perform abortions, procure abortions.

And that is why abortion has an automatic excommunication and child rape does not.

Altho the Catholic Church teaches that taking a life is an even worse affront to God than raping a child is–as bad as rape is, abortion is worse–the automatic excommunications are not in place rated on how bad the sin is. They are in place for sins which are less clear. As you yourself stated in an earlier post, it doesn’t make sense unless excommunication is not related to the badness of the sin, and that is indeed the case.
The Church has remained complicitly silent on the step-father’s actions, which are …and are also a heinous crime (both moral and legal) in and of themselves.
The Church is in no way complicit in the step-father’s actions, not even by silence. The Church teaches that this is wrong; the rapist is in a state of mortal sin, having an excommunication placed on him would not make his situation any worse than what it is.
the root cause of the abortion
Pregnancy is not a cause of abortion.
I cannot accept that this is the type of thing Jesus had in mind when he founded a Church. I cannot accept that those actions are anything even remotely resembling an ordinance of God.
Do you think that the Catholic Church teaches that raping children is all right? No! along with the rest of the world, the Catholic Church *abhors *this heinous crime.
 
…It has been provided on this thread. There was a list of infractions which incur the penalty of latae sententiae excommunication, abortion was on that list and child molestation was not. I am, and have been, saying that the Catholic Church teaches that abortion is an excommunicable offense and raping a 6 year old is not. This is a teaching of the Catholic Church. I do not care if you accept it as such or not. I do not care what you want to say about me. Just be aware that it is the teaching of the Church – period!
From the Catholic Encyclopedia article: “Thus, without change of nature, ****
excommunication in foro externo has become an exceptional penalty, reserved for very grievous offences *detrimental to Christian society…” *

Because people naturally recoil from the sexual abuse of children, the fact that someone commits this act is not detrimental to Christian society. People are not suddenly going to say, wow, you know, this guy did it, I think I will too. Or, Well, he did it and he didn’t get excommunicated so I guess it’s all right to do that.

However, the advocacy and justification of abortion *is *detrimental to Christian society because it does cause confusion in the minds of people.
 
Altho the Catholic Church teaches that taking a life is an even worse affront to God than raping a child is–as bad as rape is, abortion is worse–the automatic excommunications are not in place rated on how bad the sin is. They are in place for sins which are less clear. As you yourself stated in an earlier post, it doesn’t make sense unless excommunication is not related to the badness of the sin, and that is indeed the case.
I would like to point out some things here. The definition of excommunication says that it is for particularly grave sins. The Catholic Encyclopedia says that the punishment must fit the crime and excommunication is the most severe punishment – in other words, excommunication is only handed out for the most severe crimes.

Jesus said, "“But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea.”

From what I have just stated is it clear that excommunication is not related to the clarity of the sin. This is a defense that you, or someone else, made up. According to official Catholic teachings excommunication has to do with the gravity of the sin and not its clarity.

Also, according to Jesus’ words murder is not the worst sin. Causing a child to sin is the worst sin. I think it is easily arguable that abortion does not cause a child to sin, unless dieing is a sin. Yes, abortion is murder and murder is a sin, but abortion does not cause the child to sin. However, molesting a child directly causes the child to sin because of the things they think when they are being raped. This is not even to mention the chances that the child will become sexually promiscuous, or the number of women in the adult entertainment industry who were molested. So, according to Jesus raping a child is worse than murdering a child – according to the Catholic Church murdering a child is worse than raping them – I can’t reconcile that.
The Church is in no way complicit in the step-father’s actions, not even by silence. The Church teaches that this is wrong; the rapist is in a state of mortal sin, having an excommunication placed on him would not make his situation any worse than what it is.
So, the Catholic Church has circulated and publicized his photo so everyone would know who he is they way they circulated and publicized the photo of the mother and doctors? The Catholic Church publicly condemned him so everyone would know that he is to be considered anathema the way they did the mother and doctors? Honestly, I’m surprised they didn’t just move him to a different parish a couple hundred miles away.
Pregnancy is not a cause of abortion.
Can you get an abortion without being pregnant?
Do you think that the Catholic Church teaches that raping children is all right? No! along with the rest of the world, the Catholic Church *abhors *this heinous crime.
The Catholic Church clearly teaches that aborting a child is excommunicable and raping a child is not. The Catholic Church clearly teaches that excommunication is for the most sever sins. I am not saying they teach that is it alright, I’m saying they condone raping a child by not being as astute on it as they are on other things, like pulling the pope’s hair.
 
From the Catholic Encyclopedia article: “Thus, without change of nature, ****
excommunication in foro externo has become an exceptional penalty, reserved for very grievous offences *detrimental to Christian society…” *

Because people naturally recoil from the sexual abuse of children, the fact that someone commits this act is not detrimental to Christian society. People are not suddenly going to say, wow, you know, this guy did it, I think I will too. Or, Well, he did it and he didn’t get excommunicated so I guess it’s all right to do that.

However, the advocacy and justification of abortion *is *detrimental to Christian society because it does cause confusion in the minds of people.
A synopsis of this post: Raping a Christian child is not detrimental to the Christian community.

You can justify it anyway you like, but that is what you just said.
 
IMO, no one can be open to the truth of the gravity and evil of abortion,
unless they choose to be open to the grace and will of God. As I said, IMO.
 
IMO, no one can be open to the truth of the gravity and evil of abortion,
unless they choose to be open to the grace and will of God. As I said, IMO.
There are atheists that are very active in the pro-life movement.
 
A synopsis of this post: Raping a Christian child is not detrimental to the Christian community.

You can justify it anyway you like, but that is what you just said.
I sure hope that wasn’t you earlier on complaining about people’s twisting his or her words, because I provided a very full explanation of precisely what I meant, which you chose to ignore. Just to make it easy on you, I am pasting in my comment:

From the Catholic Encyclopedia article: “Thus, without change of nature,
excommunication in foro externo has become an exceptional penalty, reserved for very grievous offences detrimental to Christian society…”

Because people naturally recoil from the sexual abuse of children, the fact that someone commits this act is not detrimental to Christian society. People are not suddenly going to say, wow, you know, this guy did it, I think I will too. Or, Well, he did it and he didn’t get excommunicated so I guess it’s all right to do that.

However, the advocacy and justification of abortion is detrimental to Christian society because it does cause confusion in the minds of people.
 
blah, blah, blah…


…The Catholic Church clearly teaches that aborting a child is excommunicable and raping a child is not. The Catholic Church clearly teaches that excommunication is for the most sever sins. I am not saying they teach that is it alright, I’m saying they condone raping a child by not being as astute on it as they are on other things, like pulling the pope’s hair.
Even though I think what you are saying is bull hockey, (especially the part about pulling the Pope’s hair, cause that isn’t even mentioned anywhere except by you in this thread).

I would venture to guess that since whatever denomination it is that you go to probably doesn’t say anything official about it one way or the other, that you can probably conclude that your denomination approves of what you are accusing the Catholic Church of. Or would you care to link us to clear teaching on the matter from your denom?

Therefore, if we all use your reasoning, (which thank God we don’t), I would be able to conclude that since it was a Protestant Minister’s son who sexually abused me when I was little, that all Protestant’s, especially if they are related to Ministers approve of child sexual abuse…
:rolleyes:
Now, would you care to get back to the topic of re-education about abortion or should we go on with this silliness?
 
Even though I think what you are saying is bull hockey, (especially the part about pulling the Pope’s hair, cause that isn’t even mentioned anywhere except by you in this thread).

I would venture to guess that since whatever denomination it is that you go to probably doesn’t say anything official about it one way or the other, that you can probably conclude that your denomination approves of what you are accusing the Catholic Church of. Or would you care to link us to clear teaching on the matter from your denom?

Therefore, if we all use your reasoning, (which thank God we don’t), I would be able to conclude that since it was a Protestant Minister’s son who sexually abused me when I was little, that all Protestant’s, especially if they are related to Ministers approve of child sexual abuse…

:rolleyes: <------Note that this indicates sarcasm!!
(which means we cannot come to that conslusion anymore than we can come to the conclusion that you are presenting to us.)

Now, would you care to get back to the topic of re-education about abortion or should we go on with this silliness?
 
I sure hope that wasn’t you earlier on complaining about people’s twisting his or her words, because I provided a very full explanation of precisely what I meant, which you chose to ignore. Just to make it easy on you, I am pasting in my comment:

From the Catholic Encyclopedia article: “Thus, without change of nature,
excommunication in foro externo has become an exceptional penalty, reserved for very grievous offences detrimental to Christian society…”

Because people naturally recoil from the sexual abuse of children, the fact that someone commits this act is not detrimental to Christian society. People are not suddenly going to say, wow, you know, this guy did it, I think I will too. Or, Well, he did it and he didn’t get excommunicated so I guess it’s all right to do that.

However, the advocacy and justification of abortion is detrimental to Christian society because it does cause confusion in the minds of people.
The problem, St. Francis, is that there is no possible justification for it. Raping Christian children is detrimental to Christian society and any attempt to justify it not being detrimental is a horrible miscarriage of justice.
 
Drawmack,

Can’t find any clear teachings on the matter from your denomination, or are you still searching for them?🤷
 
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