How to resolve this dilemma?

[vern_humphrey]

My point is that it is quite easy to CLAIM that the RCC today, is the SAME church as the early church of the NT, but are they the same? Does the RCC today teach what the apostles taught in the NT church?

No, you point is you trot out a list of things you think represents the Church, and call that proof.

If any of my questions were too vague, I’ll be happy to clarify whatever needs clarification…if you will attempt to answer them.

Start with all of it.

If I’ve assumed anything that is not factual, just tell me where I’ve erred, and I’ll correct my mistakes…if you are serious about answering them.

Let me give you some examples:

You list the Papacy as being somehow different – yet we have cited the Petrine Text and the First Epistle of Clement to show both the scriptural origin of the office and its exercise in the early Church.

You presume only Catholics burned people at the stake – in point of fact, far more people were burned by Protestants. For example, the number of “witches” put to death in Protestant countries exceeded the deaths of the Spanish Inquisition by more than ten-fold.

You attack the Catholic positions on Mary – yet we have scriptural evidence she was entrusted to the Church (the Beloved Disciple) and was venerated in the early Church.

Now, how about you take just one of your points and put some meat on dem bones?

 

[Nick_Jones]

Ok let me get this straight, if I answered these things - you would become Catholic.
Is that right?

Assuming you really could answer ALL of them, I probably couldn’t deny that the RCC today is the same church that the apostles began. So, to answer your question, yes.

 

[Nick_Jones]

No, you point is you trot out a list of things you think represents the Church, and call that proof.

Start with all of it.

Let me give you some examples:

You list the Papacy as being somehow different – yet we have cited the Petrine Text and the First Epistle of Clement to show both the scriptural origin of the office and its exercise in the early Church.

If you can’t prove from Scripture that Peter was a pope, or that an office of papacy is mentioned in Scripture, then all you’ve got is nearly worthless opinion and speculation.

You presume only Catholics burned people at the stake – in point of fact, far more people were burned by Protestants. For example, the number of “witches” put to death in Protestant countries exceeded the deaths of the Spanish Inquisition by more than ten-fold.

Even if this were true, it only proves that some Protestants were as bad or worse than the RCC. That hardly proves that the RCC today is the same church as the NT church.

You attack the Catholic positions on Mary – yet we have scriptural evidence she was entrusted to the Church (the Beloved Disciple) and was venerated in the early Church.

Scripture please! And after you attempt to prove your case from Scripture, then you will still have the task of solving the dilemma I pointed to in my OP of this thread.

Now, how about you take just one of your points and put some meat on dem bones?

As I’ve already pointed out in my OP, the burden of proof that the RCC today is the same as the NT church is on you. If the RCC is right, and private interpretation of the bible is not to be trusted, HOW do we verify that the RCC today is the same as the NT church?

 

[Thing]

Assuming you really could answer ALL of them, I probably couldn’t deny that the RCC today is the same church that the apostles began. So, to answer your question, yes.

Probably?..

 

[Thing]

Nick Jones:

If the RCC is right, and private interpretation of the bible is not to be trusted, HOW do we verify that the RCC today is the same as the NT church?

The Apostle warns against private interpretation and urges the brethren to cling to the traditions they have been taught by the Apostle whether by word or by epistle.
No protestant organizations, in that case, can claim to represent or be the True Church as they did not exist in the world until at best 1,500 years after the Apostles died.
Only the CC can have preserved the Apostolic traditions to which the Apostles attached so much importance.

And if those traditions were lost then the Church Christ founded failed and hell did prevail against the Church He built - and made a liar of God.

What is clear is that no protestant or other organization could have carried those traditions through that 1,500 year gap in history.

 

[vern_humphrey]

If you can’t prove from Scripture that Peter was a pope, or that an office of papacy is mentioned in Scripture, then all you’ve got is nearly worthless opinion and speculation.

“Pope” is the name we give to Peter’s successors.

So your argument is meaningless – unless you contend Peter was not the rock on which Christ built His Church.

Even if this were true, it only proves that some Protestants were as bad or worse than the RCC. That hardly proves that the RCC today is the same church as the NT church.

It is true – and Protestants have persecuted Catholics more than Catholics persecuted Protestants.

But it’s not relevant to the issue – if you say some Protestants did that, I say some Catholics did it.

Scripture please! And after you attempt to prove your case from Scripture, then you will still have the task of solving the dilemma I pointed to in my OP of this thread.

John 19, 25-27

25 Standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary of Magdala.
26 When Jesus saw his mother 11 and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son.”
27 Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home.

As I’ve already pointed out in my OP, the burden of proof that the RCC today is the same as the NT church is on you. If the RCC is right, and private interpretation of the bible is not to be trusted, HOW do we verify that the RCC today is the same as the NT church?

Cheaters never win, Nick. You bloody well know we have a continuous history going back to the time of Christ. Pretending we have to prove that is cheating.

On the other hand, can you prove your church has a continuous existance since the time of Christ?

 

[guanophore]

Is it possible that some church other than the RCC has existed since the apostles were given the authority to teach?

Definitely. the Church did not make it to Rome for quite some time, and the Latin Rite did not emerge as separate from the others for several hundred years!

Jesus said, “I am the way.”

Rome says that Rome is the way:

There is no distinction between Jesus and His Body. This is why he asks Saul, when he is persecuting the Church, “why are you persecuting Me?”

If it is necessary to be a student of history to find the one true church, then who would find it? Is Christianity just a religion of the scholarly elite?

You asked why, the answer is that we can trace our roots back to Jesus founding His Church on Peter. If you honestly study history, you will find this out.

So far, you have a pretty poor attitude toward your family history. Are you afraid of what you will find?

If the only valid and reasonable contender is the one that makes the most noise, then you have the winner–the RCC wins that contest. But I strongly suspect that the real sheep follow Jesus and His word, and they have no need of a vicar, nor will they make room for any substitutes for the rock of their salvation, which is Jesus.

No, the Orthodox can make the same claim, tho they are not nearly as loud and noisy as the Latins.

Your emphasis appears to be on visible and tangible continuity rather than spiritual continuity. What if your emphasis is misguided?

Why should the two be separated?

 

[guanophore]

Here, it appears as though you are eagerly attempting the very thing that Rome says we are not competent to do on our own–interpret the bible. And on your interpretation, only that which is visible can last and have continuity.

This is just calumny, Nick Jones. The Church encourages all to read the Holy Scripture, those of the Roman Rite, as well as the other 22 Rites. Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ. We are not to interpret outside of what Jesus and the Apostles taught, so that we don’t get lost.

The real sheep follow the Good Shepherd and they will accept no vicar and no substitutes. Jesus said, “I am the way.” He also said, “My sheep hear my voice and they follow me.”

There are numerous denominations but even if there are tens of thousands of denominations, that fact, in itself, doesn’t mean that they are all divided in terms of their basic doctrinal beliefs.

You are making an incorrect assumption that the shepherds that God appoints over the flock are separated from Him somehow, and “substitute” instead of represent Him. Scripture is full of injunctions to follow their leaders! I can’t believe you would even try to foist this.

The fact is that all the denominations are indeed divided by doctrinal differences, some more than others.

 

[guanophore]

I’m agreeing with you that Christ DID establish the church, and that the gates of hell will not prevail against it. But as to the RC dilemma, how can it be resolved?

Just decide that you don’t need it anymore, Nick. You don’t have to stumble over Rome. Rome is not the center. Christ is the Center.

Then let’s do some comparing: Where in Scripture did the early church teach any of the following:

1. The papacy
2. Infallibility of human authorities.
3. Purgatory.
4. The selling of indulgences.
5. The burning (at the stake) of heretics.
6. The persecution of those who disagree with the church.
7. The sinlessness of mother Mary.
8. The veneration of mother Mary.
9. That there are “non-mortal” sins.
10. That we are justified by faith plus our good works.
11. That outside of the RCC there is no salvation.
12. That in our fallen and unregenerate condition, we retained our “free will” to do good.

Most of these things are not even practiced by the Church or are not things even taught by the Church! Instead of an invalid list, can’t we start with something accurate? Can’t you pick something out of the catechism, for example?

 

[guanophore]

Assuming you really could answer ALL of them, I probably couldn’t deny that the RCC today is the same church that the apostles began. So, to answer your question, yes.

What would happen if you looked at the non-Roman Catholic Church? Would you still have so much hatred and resentment?

 

[METROLINK13]

Just decide that you don’t need it anymore, Nick. You don’t have to stumble over Rome. Rome is not the center. Christ is the Center.

Most of these things are not even practiced by the Church or are not things even taught by the Church! Instead of an invalid list, can’t we start with something accurate? Can’t you pick something out of the catechism, for example?

Transubstantiation which teaches that the communion bread is the literal body of Christ, and that one cannot be saved unless he takes the communion in the Catholic Church.NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Venial and Mortal sins - unscriptural teachings about the sinlessness of certain sins. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Indulgences - in exchange for donations to the Catholic Churches, the priesthood absolved the donors of their guilt, allowing them to commit adulteries, fornications and many other sins. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Confessionals - the Catholic Church taught the people to confess their sins to the Priests instead of confessing to God. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Purgatory, Limbo and Prayers for the Dead - the Catholic Church teaches unscriptural beliefs about the destiny of the soul. It teaches that through gifts and donations, deceased loved ones can be prayed into heaven, regardless of the lives they lived or what they believed. Prayers to the Saints, contradicting the Lord’s Prayer which Jesus prescribed to the Father only. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Veneration of and Prayers to the Virgin Mary - The Pope himself prays to the Virgin, and John Paul II credited her with saving his life in an assassination attempt. She is called the Mother of God, Tower of David, Ark of the Covenant, Gate of Heaven, Morning Star, and Refuge of Sinners among other blasphemous titles. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Mariology - Throughout the Roman Catholic Church, Mary is being listened to through visions, apparitions, weeping statues, and various demonic revelations. The Spirit of Mary is credited with the fall of Communism in the USSR, and multitudes of pilgrims travel to places where the Virgin is said to have appeared - over 600 cities worldwide in all. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Idolatry - statues and icons by the multitudes play significantly into the Catholic religion. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

The Supreme Pontiff - The Pope - According to the Catholic Doctrine, the pope is the Vicar of Christ - the stand-in for Christ. They call him Holy Father, when the Jesus taught to call no man your father except God. The pope claims to have the keys to the kingdom delivered to Peter by Jesus Christ, and claims Apostolic Succession to Peter as the first Pope. Strangely enough, the Pope refuses to preach the message Peter preached in Acts 2:38. And they claim he is infallible. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

The Mass - only those who take communion in the Roman Catholic Church at the hands of a Roman Catholic Priest can be saved. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

The Rosary - Jesus specifically preached against vain repetitions in prayer, and nowhere in the Bible is ritualistic praying taught. “Hail Marys” are based on Elizabeth’s greeting to Mary, which was never a prayer in the first place. We are not to pray to saints. Even the angels in heaven rebuked men for venerating them. kenraggio.com/KRPN-CatholicErro.htm

 

[vern_humphrey]

Transubstantiation which teaches that the communion bread is the literal body of Christ, and that one cannot be saved unless he takes the communion in the Catholic Church.NOT IN THE BIBLE.

When you start off with a falsehood, you can’t expect the rest of your post to be treated seriously;

26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
27 Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you,
28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.

Matthew, 26, 26-28.

 

[METROLINK13]

No protestant organizations, in that case, can claim to represent or be the True Church as they did not exist in the world until at best 1,500 years after the Apostles died.
Only the CC can have preserved the Apostolic traditions to which the Apostles attached so much importance.

.

The “first church” is the church that is recorded in the New Testament, especially in the Book of Acts and the Epistles of Paul. The New Testament church is the “original church” and the “one true church.” We can know this because it is described, in great detail, in Scripture. The church, as recorded in the New Testament, is God’s pattern and foundation for His church. On this basis, let’s examine the Roman Catholic claim that it is the “first church.” Nowhere in the New Testament will you find the “one true church” doing any of the following: praying to Mary, praying to the saints, venerating Mary, submitting to a pope, having a select priesthood, baptizing an infant, observing the ordinances of baptism and the Lord’s Supper as sacraments, or passing on apostolic authority to successors of the apostles. All of these are core elements of the Roman Catholic faith. If most of the core elements of the Roman Catholic Church were not practiced by the New Testament Church (the first church and one true church), how then can the Roman Catholic Church be the first church? A study of the New Testament will clearly reveal that the Roman Catholic Church is not the same church as the church that is described in the New Testament.

Scripture never mentions using “which church came first” as the basis for determining which is the “true” church. What it does teach is that one is to use Scripture as **the determining factor **as to which church is preaching the truth and thus is true to the first church. It is especially important to compare Scripture with a church’s teaching on such core issues as the full deity and humanity of Christ, the atonement for sin through His blood on Calvary, salvation from sin by grace through faith, and the infallibility of the Scriptures. The “first church” and “one true church” is recorded in the New Testament. That is the church that all churches are to follow, emulate, and model themselves after. gotquestions.org/original-church.html

 

[Agnes_Ainsworth]

Transubstantiation which teaches that the communion bread is the literal body of Christ, and that one cannot be saved unless he takes the communion in the Catholic Church.NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Venial and Mortal sins - unscriptural teachings about the sinlessness of certain sins. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Indulgences - in exchange for donations to the Catholic Churches, the priesthood absolved the donors of their guilt, allowing them to commit adulteries, fornications and many other sins. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Confessionals - the Catholic Church taught the people to confess their sins to the Priests instead of confessing to God. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Purgatory, Limbo and Prayers for the Dead - the Catholic Church teaches unscriptural beliefs about the destiny of the soul. It teaches that through gifts and donations, deceased loved ones can be prayed into heaven, regardless of the lives they lived or what they believed. Prayers to the Saints, contradicting the Lord’s Prayer which Jesus prescribed to the Father only. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Veneration of and Prayers to the Virgin Mary - The Pope himself prays to the Virgin, and John Paul II credited her with saving his life in an assassination attempt. She is called the Mother of God, Tower of David, Ark of the Covenant, Gate of Heaven, Morning Star, and Refuge of Sinners among other blasphemous titles. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Mariology - Throughout the Roman Catholic Church, Mary is being listened to through visions, apparitions, weeping statues, and various demonic revelations. The Spirit of Mary is credited with the fall of Communism in the USSR, and multitudes of pilgrims travel to places where the Virgin is said to have appeared - over 600 cities worldwide in all. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Idolatry - statues and icons by the multitudes play significantly into the Catholic religion. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

The Supreme Pontiff - The Pope - According to the Catholic Doctrine, the pope is the Vicar of Christ - the stand-in for Christ. They call him Holy Father, when the Jesus taught to call no man your father except God. The pope claims to have the keys to the kingdom delivered to Peter by Jesus Christ, and claims Apostolic Succession to Peter as the first Pope. Strangely enough, the Pope refuses to preach the message Peter preached in Acts 2:38. And they claim he is infallible. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

The Mass - only those who take communion in the Roman Catholic Church at the hands of a Roman Catholic Priest can be saved. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

The Rosary - Jesus specifically preached against vain repetitions in prayer, and nowhere in the Bible is ritualistic praying taught. “Hail Marys” are based on Elizabeth’s greeting to Mary, which was never a prayer in the first place. We are not to pray to saints. Even the angels in heaven rebuked men for venerating them. kenraggio.com/KRPN-CatholicErro.htm

If anybody sees his brother commit a sin that is not a deadly sin, he has only to pray, and God will give life to the sinner - not those who commit a deadly sin; for there is a sin that is death and I will not say that you must pray about that, every kind of wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly. 1 John 5;16,17

 

[vern_humphrey]

The “first church” is the church that is recorded in the New Testament, especially in the Book of Acts and the Epistles of Paul. The New Testament church is the “original church” and the “one true church.”

And only one Church has continuity with the New Testament Church. Those that sprang up a millinium and a half later have no connection with the New Testament Church.

 

[METROLINK13]

When you start off with a falsehood, you can’t expect the rest of your post to be treated seriously;

Matthew, 26, 26-28.

Jesus made it exceedingly obvious what He meant. John 6:63 declares, “The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.” Jesus specifically stated that His words are “spirit.” Jesus was using physical concepts, eating and drinking, to teach spiritual truth. Just as consuming physical food and drink sustains our physical bodies, so are our spiritual lives saved and built up by spiritually receiving Him, by grace through faith. Eating Jesus’ flesh and drinking His blood are symbols of fully and completely receiving Him in our lives.

The Scriptures declare that the Lord’s Supper is a memorial to the body and blood of Christ (Luke 22:19; 1 Corinthians 11:24-25), not the actual consumption of His physical body and blood. When Jesus was speaking in John chapter 6, Jesus had not yet had the Last Supper with His disciples, in which He instituted the Lord’s Supper.
gotquestions.org/transubstantiation.html

 

[vern_humphrey]

Jesus made it exceedingly obvious what He meant. John 6:63 declares, “The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.” Jesus specifically stated that His words are “spirit.” Jesus was using physical concepts, eating and drinking, to teach spiritual truth. Just as consuming physical food and drink sustains our physical bodies, so are our spiritual lives saved and built up by spiritually receiving Him, by grace through faith. Eating Jesus’ flesh and drinking His blood are symbols of fully and completely receiving Him in our lives.

The Scriptures declare that the Lord’s Supper is a memorial to the body and blood of Christ (Luke 22:19; 1 Corinthians 11:24-25), not the actual consumption of His physical body and blood. When Jesus was speaking in John chapter 6, Jesus had not yet had the Last Supper with His disciples, in which He instituted the Lord’s Supper.
gotquestions.org/transubstantiation.html

Reposted without comment;

 

[fbl9]

metrolink 13 take your signature and use it yourself look in the full OT for the church.you will find the catholic church,

 

[guanophore]

Transubstantiation which teaches that the communion bread is the literal body of Christ, and that one cannot be saved unless he takes the communion in the Catholic Church.NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Well, the word is not, but the concept is. The word Trinity isn’t in the Bible either! If you don’t believe that, go to the Transubstantiation thread.

Venial and Mortal sins - unscriptural teachings about the sinlessness of certain sins. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

There is no such thing as a 'sinless" sin! That is what I meant when I said these are not things the Church believes and teaches. There are mortal sins, and there are sins that are not mortal, which we call venial. They are in the Bible.

Indulgences - in exchange for donations to the Catholic Churches, the priesthood absolved the donors of their guilt, allowing them to commit adulteries, fornications and many other sins. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

No, they are not in the Bible, and this practice is considered an abuse, and was outlawed by the church over 500 years ago. See what I mean about an inaccurate list?

Confessionals - the Catholic Church taught the people to confess their sins to the Priests instead of confessing to God. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

No, the Catholic Church does not teach this either. But confession is in the Bible.

Purgatory, Limbo and Prayers for the Dead - the Catholic Church teaches unscriptural beliefs about the destiny of the soul. It teaches that through gifts and donations, deceased loved ones can be prayed into heaven, regardless of the lives they lived or what they believed. Prayers to the Saints, contradicting the Lord’s Prayer which Jesus prescribed to the Father only. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

No, the Catholic Church does not teach this either. I wonder if there is anything on this list that is valid?

Veneration of and Prayers to the Virgin Mary - The Pope himself prays to the Virgin, and John Paul II credited her with saving his life in an assassination attempt. She is called the Mother of God, Tower of David, Ark of the Covenant, Gate of Heaven, Morning Star, and Refuge of Sinners among other blasphemous titles. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Why is that a problem? The Catholic faith is not based in Scripture. It is based in the Teachings of Jesus Christ, who venerated his mother. If you want to discuss this, go to the Mary thread!

Mariology - Throughout the Roman Catholic Church, Mary is being listened to through visions, apparitions, weeping statues, and various demonic revelations. The Spirit of Mary is credited with the fall of Communism in the USSR, and multitudes of pilgrims travel to places where the Virgin is said to have appeared - over 600 cities worldwide in all. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

I was just going to start a thread on this, maybe now would be a good time?

Idolatry - statues and icons by the multitudes play significantly into the Catholic religion. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Statues and icons are certainly in the bible, and they do play significantly in Catholic practice. However, we don’t worship these items, so it is not idolatry.

The Supreme Pontiff - The Pope - According to the Catholic Doctrine, the pope is the Vicar of Christ - the stand-in for Christ. They call him Holy Father, when the Jesus taught to call no man your father except God. The pope claims to have the keys to the kingdom delivered to Peter by Jesus Christ, and claims Apostolic Succession to Peter as the first Pope. Strangely enough, the Pope refuses to preach the message Peter preached in Acts 2:38. And they claim he is infallible. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

You have misunderstood Jesus’ teaching on the use of the word “father”. If you want to discuss this, go to the “call no man father” thread. The Pope doesn’t “claim” the keys. the Keys were given by Jesus. the Pope “receives” (very humbly, I note) the keys. The keys are in the Bible. It pope is not infallible. This whole list is spurious.

The Mass - only those who take communion in the Roman Catholic Church at the hands of a Roman Catholic Priest can be saved. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

No, and it is not taught by the Church, either.

The Rosary - Jesus specifically preached against vain repetitions in prayer, and nowhere in the Bible is ritualistic praying taught. “Hail Marys” are based on Elizabeth’s greeting to Mary, which was never a prayer in the first place. We are not to pray to saints. Even the angels in heaven rebuked men for venerating them.

The Rosary is only a vain repetition to those who don’t use it correctly, just like any misused devotional. I suppose one could say that most of the scriptural verses we use for prayer were not written as prayers in the first place. It is scripture, so why is using it for prayer a problem?

Don’t you use any scripture for prayer?

kenraggio.com/KRPN-CatholicErro.htm

Thanks for including your anticatholic source used for your cut and paste job.

 

[wanner47]

Transubstantiation which teaches that the communion bread is the literal body of Christ, and that one cannot be saved unless he takes the communion in the Catholic Church.NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Christ in the Eucharist.

Venial and Mortal sins - unscriptural teachings about the sinlessness of certain sins. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Venial and Mortal Sin.

Indulgences - in exchange for donations to the Catholic Churches, the priesthood absolved the donors of their guilt, allowing them to commit adulteries, fornications and many other sins. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

You’re right! Luckily, the Church does NOT teach that. See here

Confessionals - the Catholic Church taught the people to confess their sins to the Priests instead of confessing to God. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

See here.

Purgatory, Limbo and Prayers for the Dead - the Catholic Church teaches unscriptural beliefs about the destiny of the soul. It teaches that through gifts and donations, deceased loved ones can be prayed into heaven, regardless of the lives they lived or what they believed. Prayers to the Saints, contradicting the Lord’s Prayer which Jesus prescribed to the Father only. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Purgatory
Prayer to the Saints

Limbo was only theological speculation, not doctrine, so I won’t address that here.

Veneration of and Prayers to the Virgin Mary - The Pope himself prays to the Virgin, and John Paul II credited her with saving his life in an assassination attempt. She is called the Mother of God, Tower of David, Ark of the Covenant, Gate of Heaven, Morning Star, and Refuge of Sinners among other blasphemous titles. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Mariology - Throughout the Roman Catholic Church, Mary is being listened to through visions, apparitions, weeping statues, and various demonic revelations. The Spirit of Mary is credited with the fall of Communism in the USSR, and multitudes of pilgrims travel to places where the Virgin is said to have appeared - over 600 cities worldwide in all. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Marian Doctrines

Idolatry - statues and icons by the multitudes play significantly into the Catholic religion. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

You’re right, it’s not in the Bible that Catholics worship idols, which makes me wonder why Protestants always bring it up. Regardless, the answers you’re seeking are in this link:

Do Catholics Worship Statues?

The Supreme Pontiff - The Pope - According to the Catholic Doctrine, the pope is the Vicar of Christ - the stand-in for Christ. They call him Holy Father, when the Jesus taught to call no man your father except God. The pope claims to have the keys to the kingdom delivered to Peter by Jesus Christ, and claims Apostolic Succession to Peter as the first Pope. Strangely enough, the Pope refuses to preach the message Peter preached in Acts 2:38. And they claim he is infallible. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Your conception of the Papacy is out of whack. See her.

The Mass - only those who take communion in the Roman Catholic Church at the hands of a Roman Catholic Priest can be saved. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

You’re right, it’s not, and because Catholic Church doesn’t teach that.


The Institution of the Mass

No Salvation Outside the Church

The Rosary - Jesus specifically preached against vain repetitions in prayer, and nowhere in the Bible is ritualistic praying taught. “Hail Marys” are based on Elizabeth’s greeting to Mary, which was never a prayer in the first place. We are not to pray to saints. Even the angels in heaven rebuked men for venerating them. kenraggio.com/KRPN-CatholicErro.htm

The Rosary

Once you’ve taken the time to educate yourself (via the links above) on what the Church REALLY teaches, MetroLink, then we can talk. You’re very misinformed about what the CC actually teaches.