How to respond to those who call God a mass murderer?

[Gorgias]

And at the same time, the Church does not subscribe to 6 day creation.

Actually, the Church doesn’t officially hold to a position on that question.

Where does the Church teach the Scriptures contain historical error?
DV #11b:

“Therefore, since everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit, it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings (5) for the sake of salvation."

This only says what you say it says if “that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of salvation” == “historical data.” If it doesn’t (or, it doesn’t necessarily), then your claim doesn’t hold.

Provide references that I reject the historical sense of scripture.

That’s far too broad a claim to be useful. Are you really suggesting that we must either claim that the Bible is 100% historically accurate or 100% historically inaccurate? Or am I misinterpreting you?

 

[goout]

goout:

And at the same time, the Church does not subscribe to 6 day creation.

Actually, the Church doesn’t officially hold to a position on that question.

Ummm, that’s kinda the point, given the context of the passages.
(I’m not going to the dance with you today. )

 

[goout]

goout:

You don’t understand inerrancy or inspiration in Catholic thought.

And you do?

Can you simply address the mountains of reference material that’s been posted on this thread?
You don’t like my articulation of it, that’s fine. Take up a beef with the catholic sources that are posted.
here’s another: about the 43 minute mark addresses biblical violence and the fundamentalist reading of scripture.

What do you think about that?

 

[Agathon]

I repeat: do you understand it better than me?

 

[nogames]

nogames:

but if God is unjust for commanding that.

How could the Lawgiver who is Justice Itself be unjust?

It’s a nonsensical question - how can Justice be unjust?

What we have is a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of God.

God is not some creature who has an attribute of supposed justice - God’s very Being is Justice and Righteousness Itself.

I agree with you about God’s nature. God, by nature is justice and righteousness. I was merely trying to re-focus on the issue, which is not WHY God commanded Abraham to kill his son, but if that command was evil. So we agree. God is not capable of evil; God is perfectly good in every way.

 

[curious_cath]

It is not God who is unjust, it is the image we have about God in our head that is unjust! Abraham had the wrong image of God in his head. This wrong image which was somehow Abraham himself with his fallen nature demanded the killing of his son! It was divine pedagogy to have Abraham encounter the true God who does not want bloody sacrifice of the firstborn, but rather sends a goat as a substitute sacrifice.

God does not want bloody sacrifice of animals either, but it is better from a stubborn people to kill animals than humans. Abraham was blessed to learn how to sacrifice the wrong image of God in his head.

 

[curious_cath]

“What we have is a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of God.”

Agreed on that one. What we have is a fundamental misunderstanding of who God is. We mix our concept of God with the false image we have about God in our heads. Nothing would prove this better than the writers of the Old Testament stories.

 

[curious_cath]

If God commands one human to kill another, the one being killed is not innocent, for God the Supreme Judge has judged them as deserving death.

But if your own super-ego demands to kill an innocent, that is by no means God! Not even if it was written into the book by some writer. It was you who wanted to kill your enemy by claiming he deserves death.

 

[mythbuster1]

And in justice, God puts to death sinners who refuse to repent. And really, does anyone die without the Lord decreeing it? The wages of sin is death, but the Paschal Mystery is our redemption from death.

 

[curious_cath]

in justice, God puts to death sinners who refuse to repent.

The punishment is not death on earth, but eternal death in hell.

 

[Agathon]

In some cases it’s both.

 

[ericc]

Absolutely yes! Why do you even ask?

Can you point me to the post that confirmed his actions were unlawful? I asked because I couldn’t find it. I’d like to have a clearer understanding in what way his actions were deemed unlawful. How did you come to that conclusion?

 

[curious_cath]

Can you point me to the post that confirmed his actions were unlawful?

I did not talk about lawful or unlawful murder. Law is always relative to the given system of laws. I talked about murder as it is: killing someone deliberately. Period.

God is not capable of murder, because He cannot violate his own commandment. So it is man who kills and murders. Elijah was a great prophet. But he thought it was okay to murder in the name of God. This was based on his misconception. He projected God into his own mind who wanted to kill. Perhaps. he manipulated with sulphur. It could very well be. God does not play gamble with bloody animals cut in one half.

 

[mythbuster1]

So we agree that casting the wicked into fiery Gehenna is not murder. How then, can you say that putting the wicked to the sword by the warrant of God is murder?

 

[mythbuster1]

Sulfur doesn’t set water on fire. Only fluorine can do that, and there was no means of manufacturing fluorine from fluoride compounds in those days. You error because you do not acknowledge that God both kills and makes alive. You do not want to admit that death is the decree of God against sin, which is why we are subject to death since the Fall of Man. You do not want to acknowledge that Elijah was not the only one to kill in the Name of God and be blessed for it. Moses, Phineas, Joshua, all of the Judges, and David were all warriors, praised for their zeal for God’s Law, and exalted by God for slaying evildoers. Did not the Lord destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, leaving not a soul alive? Did not the Lord kill the firstborn of Egypt? Did not the Lord drown Pharaoh’s armies? Did not the Lord consume the sons of Aaron by fire when they offered strange fire before Him? Did not the Lord consume Korah and his band by fire when they presumed to appoint themselves priests? Did not the Lord open the earth to swallow the rebels who refused to appear before Moses? Did not the Lord strike dead Ananias and Sephira when they kept back a portion of their pledge?

 

[curious_cath]

“Eternal death” is a punishment for the soul by suffering in hell. Not the body. The fire of Gehenna is the abandonment of your soul that is separated from Jesus. This is the true meaning of suffering. Nobody is talking about killing or murder that is a punishment for the body.

 

[curious_cath]

You do not want to acknowledge that Elijah was not the only one to kill in the Name of God and be blessed for it. Moses, Phineas, Joshua, all of the Judges, and David were all warriors, praised for their zeal for God’s Law, and exalted by God for slaying evildoers.

You mistake divine pedagogy with divine wrath. You implicate God by murder referring to divine justice or wrath.

But God did not kill those people in the historical time, because God cannot violate His commandment. They were killed by murderous men who wanted to kill free so they referred to God. But God is so much more than reference for murderous intention. God is a teacher who applies divine pedagogy on the stubborn.

Gosh, the ancient people, including Jews, were stubborn! They got a heavy load of divine pedagogy as witnessed by the inspired writers of the Bible. It was almost impossible even for Jesus (!!!), who is the Son on Man, the second Person of the Holy Trinity God, to make the record straight by giving his blood freely on the cross for our salvation.

 

[mythbuster1]

To say that is to deny the Resurrection of the Dead. Both body and soul are punished in fiery Gehenna.

 

[mythbuster1]

You make the body out to be more precious than the soul! I will not deal anymore with you, heretic. You deny the Justice of God, and accuse the Scriptures of corruption for attributing to God the command to put evildoers to death. You slander the saints by accusing them of murder and blasphemy. You complain about the motes in our eyes while ignoring the beam in your own!

 

[curious_cath]

that is to deny the Resurrection of the Dead

Nope! The resurrected body is a different kind of material, kind of a translucent abstraction that we don’t know how would react to physical impressions. What is for sure is that this “body”, as Jesus himself demonstrated, is passing through the wall by wish thus defying physical sciences and the law of mutual impact.