How to respond to those who call God a mass murderer?

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Russell_SA said:
I don’t understand how those qualities have anything to do with demonstrating those ideas come from the supernatural. You are by passing that part of the conversation. Start from there. How can you know event A had supernatural involvement verse event B without supernatural involvement?
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We never came to a consensus on this point.
Do you believe that all of reality is testable?
Love
Faith
Hope
How do you test those?
 
Russell_SA said:
There is no girl in the bar when I get there.
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I am sorry, but you have to re-read the example. You are supposed to be the lady of good manners there! 😊 Then this story has a completely different dynamics! You desire the guy to come in to share your loneliness that is just frightening. But he has better things to do, unless you express your interest. You have a false image of God if you think He is interested in you despite your fake rejection. 😂 You would not believe this, but he only thing you have to do is to express a willingness to receive His presence. 😉

Your misunderstanding of the story demonstrates why you cannot grasp anything about God. He is the powerful one and not you. He is the merciful one, not you. He is the one you depend on to get peace in your mind, not the other way around.
 
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Emotions are evolved mental states of higher functioning brains. We give labels of love, hate, empathy, etc. to these emotional states. How we express those emotions are up to our abilities to understand what is appropriate or not from social conditioning. Like person A that is mad was taught to punch the ground out of frustration while person B was taught to punch the person making them mad. Do you have an example of an emotional state that is not from a functioning biological mind?
We test for these by looking at brain scans to see what their brains are doing when they tell us that they are feeling these emotions. You seem to come across as not keeping up with this in the science fields. We’ve moved soo far beyond your religion that if the scientists didn’t tell you how they were able to do what they do, you might mistake them as demi gods now.
 
Russell_SA said:
Tell her she needs to do better.
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🤣 You seem to like the bar story a lot…

In the school there was this girl who hated my friend so intensely that caused my friend deeply puzzled. Once, they started to fight before class, the girl yelled like crazy, her face became reddish like the rose. Then she literally jumped on my friend and by the time the teacher came in, they were kissing like mad. The girl ended up not only in the arms of my friend, but also in his home in holy matrimony! Don’t you feel inspired? 😉

You truly come across as someone in denial. You don’t actually deny the existence of God as you think, but your deep seeded attraction to Him. Release yourself from the bonds of denial, express your wish for God to come to you, and you’ll feel great relief and joy!
Russell_SA said:
I’m fine learning about how to biohack the human body.
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:roll_eyes: You call this biohacking, but religion is actually a highly complex way, developed by 100 thousands years of thorough evolution, to access otherwise hidden potentials of the human body. It is precisely the beneficial health, etc. effects of Buddhist meditation technique that cannot be reproduced without actually being a Buddhist. How about that, my friend?! 😋
 
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Russell_SA said:
We test for these by looking at brain scans to see what their brains are doing when they tell us that they are feeling these emotions.
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😆 Do you really want to catch God through brain scanning? Hilarious!

It is like the puzzle how to catch a camel: you make a huge sieve and sieve the sand of the desert through it until you get one! 😂
 
Still an empty sack since the guy that walked in comes across as no different as no one walking in. You’re the one pointing at the guy walking in. Ok fine. Demonstrate that he is any different than an empty sack of nothing at all. That is your guy, no different than nothing at all.
Poetic ending. That which is asserted without evidence is dismissed without evidence. I have no problem not having a relationship with an empty sack.
 
So i’ll use the appropriate label of emotions for the emotions you listed. You can call them god. Fine, as long as we both know what we are talking about.
Faith is not an emotion though. It’s the excuse people use for an unjustified belief. If you have a justification for your belief, you just call it belief. You don’t need faith. You can believe anything, absolutely anything on faith since you don’t have to have a justification for that held belief.
 
Russell_SA said:
I have no problem not having a relationship with an empty sack.
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You are really trying hard to make me believe that! 😉
Russell_SA said:
Demonstrate that he is any different than an empty sack of nothing
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You truly look like someone obsessed with the guy! :roll_eyes:
Russell_SA said:
You can believe anything, absolutely anything on faith
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So why would this bother you? Jealousy? Secret lust? You can believe, too, if you are not so shy… 😊
 
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Russell_SA said:
Age of the people experiencing something is irrelevant. The adults are experiencing an event just like the children are experiencing the event. Sorry but getting older does not mean you have learned how to think about your experiences. We have adults who claim to have been abducted by aliens as well. Should we believe their story? All we can justifiably conclude is that these people believe they have experienced something. But their explanation is not to be a justified conclusion to hold above any other conclusion until we can demonstrate what happened.
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I think we should stick to supernaturals. Bringing in Santa and Aliens are diversions. Since you concede that multiple persons of adulthood experiencing the same event can not be written off as imaginary nor non-existence, at least we can get past the first step. That is acknowledging there is something happening rather than imaginary stuff. At this step I am not asking you to believe what they experience.
Russell_SA said:
Personal encounters are empirical in nature only to the person experiencing it, to everyone else it is hearsay unless we can repeat the experience for ourselves. So I’m fine with you claiming you have an empirical experience with a deity, but I am not fine believing that was what actually happened since we can not conclude that your experience is any different than an active imagination.
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I am not alluding to solitary experiences only. Marian Apparitions were seen my thousands , millions of people in Egypt for example. There were several appearances over the years. It is far fetched to tag it as active imagination. Captured on film and TV.
Russell_SA said:
Scientific community did not dismiss Einstein because his logical conclusions were about the known reality.
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The gravity waves were predictions, not a known reality at the time of his paper. It could easily be proven wrong if future observations were not borned out. And Einstein didn’t have 100% hit rate either. As typical of the Dawkins of the world, I see you have also adopted his tactic of portraying opponents of his way of thinking as absurd. How quaint and at the same time claiming non-bias. Or are you claiming non-bias only if we think like you do? Isn’t that a waste of time if you just want to hang out with people who think alike and not genuinely trying to understand other people got different perspectives on what is reality? That’s myopic.
 
Because prayer requires faith. If you have a mindset to control God and put Him to the test, He will not answer your prayers on account of your arrogance. That is your problem: you want to conduct a controlled experiment on something that by nature cannot be controlled by human beings. You deny the existence of lightning because you cannot trap it in a bottle! No, the way to test the supernatural is to examine miraculous claims with the most rigorous scientific analysis and see if anything confounds the laws of nature. Bread suddenly changing into human flesh, the spontaneous and total healing of an incurable illness, a person surviving for years on nothing but daily Communion- these are all things that we all agree cannot occur naturally. Examine the claims and see if they survive inquiry.
 
They can keep their money. Those who are blessed with the power to prophesy or work miracles have received their gift freely, and freely must they exercise them. You ask for us to control God, who cannot be controlled and forbids us from attempting to control Him. Even so, we have the multitude of miraculous healings affirmed by doctors as lacking any medical explanation, dozens of cases of bread spontaneously changing into human flesh and wine into human blood at the Consecration, affirmed by laboratory tests and a multitude of witnesses, and these miraculous Hosts exist to the present day even when the miracle occurred centuries ago, and many saints, who, under doctor supervision, subsisted exclusively off of daily Communion for years at a time, while maintaining healthy weight and blood chemistry. Examine the records for yourself.
 
Russell_SA said:
Asking for clarification is arrogance? Asking someone just to demonstrate they exist because they appear to not exist at all is arrogance?
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No. But telling God exactly how He must respond, and requiring a demonstration that meets your personal demands? Yeah… that’s arrogance. 😉
 
Michael S Heiser states that those ppl may be not human but a rest of the nephilim. Look for him
 
Show me one verified, peer reviewed, study of any religious claim that demonstrated the supernatural.
 
Russell_SA said:
Show me one verified, peer reviewed, study of any religious claim that demonstrated the supernatural.
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Show me one peer reviewed study as to how the universe came into being, or how life started on this planet. If there were absolute certainty how this happened without God, then there would be no religion.
 
Russell_SA said:
Show me one verified, peer reviewed, study of any religious claim that demonstrated the supernatural.
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Show me one verified, peer reviewed, study of any claim that demonstrated the existence of love. Or faith. Or hope.
Music? Art? (and you know I’m not talking about the workings of molecules, but the experience of art and the effect it has on a person’s personalitiy, the way these things engage and change a person)
What is beauty?
Why do you exist?
Where are you going?
What is your identity?
What is the meaning of your life?

Show us the peer reviewed studies please.

Let me go ahead a few posts now. Since you are not going to provide definitive peer reviewed materialist offerings here, why would you imagine those peer reviewed materialist offerings would be forthcoming in regard to the ultimate spiritual realities (ie the existence of God)?
That would be self contradictory on your part, and I know you want to be reasonable.
 
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Russell_SA said:
not going to take this as a serious response. If your deity thinks it is arrogant to ask for evidence of its existence then it and its followers don’t understand a basic understanding of what is justified belief.
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If you would read it carefully, you’d see it’s serious. I’ll try again:

The arrogance isn’t in the request, but in the demand and in the expectation that setting absolute terms is reasonable. It’s as if, living in a consumer culture, you presume that God is just another customer service representative at your beck and call. :roll_eyes:
 
Don’t give to dogs what is Holy. Don’t chase after them. It’s not your job.

When Jesus spoke about how people must eat his flesh and drink his blood, some of his own disciples left. Jesus didn’t flinch. He didn’t go “Oh… wait guys! Let me explain! Please!” No, he turned to the 12 and said “Do you want to leave too?”

At a certain point, a debate is worthless. Especially with someone of the likes of Bill Maher… who already grew up a Christian - and heaps more sin upon himself for coming up with these views.
 
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My priest (Orthodox) said in his sermon yesterday that many people want to change the Gospel, rather than the Gospel changing them and how this can only lead to spiritual desolation. The “evidence” of this is more available now then ever before, at least in the Western world anyway. These people (overwhelming majority) looking for “evidence” of God’s existence wouldn’t believe in God even if Christ appeared to them personally one by one. They want God to be like themselves which explains why so many of them are miserable. This can be empirically measured too. Tell any of them that you don’t believe in the practice of homosexual behavior, reject third wave feminism, or believe, simply, that there’s only one way to Heaven; most would throw a tantrum that could give a five year old a run for his money. They want God, who they know in their hearts is truly real, to be like them and so they afflict everyone else with their spiritual desolation. Like science, which I am more familiar with than most atheists who are predominately lazy thinkers, they are always changing their views and altering their ways, but unlike science they don’t have evidence to support the choices they make.
 
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