How to take a stand on illegal immigration?

[Bullfighter]

Are you suggesting that all loyal Catholics are forced to accept illegal immigrants into their country? I don’t see that in the bible or any rule book on catholicism. Breaking the law is still breaking the law.

The Law of God is the same for Americans or anyone sneaking into this country. Breaking into America is the same as breaking into a neighbor’s house. Foreigners feeding off of America’s supply is the same as taking the food from poor Americans who now have nothing to eat because their portion of food was taken.

All those people who are using fake documents are felons and should be jailed.

A foreigner using fake ID to gain to entrance into this country, to receive benefits, food, healthcare is a terrorist. That person will kill an American buy consuming what rightfully belongs to the American. How Godly do you feel when you see American poor and know that you helped keep him poor by supporting the immigrant.

No one forced them to come here. And no real American wants them to stay.

The polls have shown that Americans want the illegal OUT. I contend that we sue their countries of origin for damages. If you want them here, then you feed them with your share of America. Don’t steal from poor Americans to feed illegals then think you’re are doing a christian act.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Are you suggesting that all loyal Catholics are forced to accept illegal immigrants into their country? I don’t see that in the bible or any rule book on catholicism. Breaking the law is still breaking the law.

The Law of God is the same for Americans or anyone sneaking into this country. Breaking into America is the same as breaking into a neighbor’s house. Foreigners feeding off of America’s supply is the same as taking the food from poor Americans who now have nothing to eat because their portion of food was taken.

This is simply untrue,walking down a public street is in no way equal to “breaking into a neighbor’s house”

All those people who are using fake documents are felons and should be jailed.

A foreigner using fake ID to gain to entrance into this country, to receive benefits, food, healthcare is a terrorist. That person will kill an American buy consuming what rightfully belongs to the American. How Godly do you feel when you see American poor and know that you helped keep him poor by supporting the immigrant.

rare are “fake ID to gain -]to/-] entrance into this country, to receive benefits, food, healthcare” The fake ID issue is using a relatives SS# to get employment. Before the computer systems caught up these people simply made up the number, thus forfeiting their taxes. The punishment for forfeiting tax money should be equal to the crime.

No one forced them to come here. And no real American wants them to stay

The polls have shown that Americans want the illegal OUT. I contend that we sue their countries of origin for damages. If you want them here, then you feed them with your share of America. Don’t steal from poor Americans to feed illegals then think you’re are doing a christian act.

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel - Samuel Johnson (1775)

 

[Bullfighter]

This is simply untrue,walking down a public street is in no way equal to “breaking into a neighbor’s house”

You consider breaking into the US the same as walking down the street? Maybe you think the illegal immigrant should be considered as “just a tourist” who plans to feed off of Americans for say 50 or 60 years and is totally harmless to real Americans.

rare are “fake ID to gain -]to/-] entrance into this country, to receive benefits, food, healthcare” The fake ID issue is using a relatives SS# to get employment. Before the computer systems caught up these people simply made up the number, thus forfeiting their taxes. The punishment for forfeiting tax money should be equal to the crime.

You make it seem so innocent! They weren’t using fake IDs to set up bank accounts, to get loans, to start businesses that they intend to make fail only to get the “minority money”, to buy homes that will house 10-12 fellow illegals, then dump the house before they get caught because they haven’t paid their bills. Then drive off in their 2009 SUVs to a new house in a new neighborhood and do it again. All at the expense of the US taxpayer. And people say we treat THEM bad.

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel - Samuel Johnson (1775)

Political Correctness is the language of cowards!

 

[Texas_Roofer]

You consider breaking into the US the same as walking down the street?

This is the crime you complain of, it is what it is

Maybe you think the illegal immigrant should be considered as “just a tourist” who plans to feed off of Americans for say 50 or 60 years and is totally harmless to real Americans.

actually it is the other way around, most of the immigrants will be feeding the US, both pyhsically and through paying taxes

You make it seem so innocent!

it is what it is

They weren’t using fake IDs to set up bank accounts, to get loans, to start businesses that they intend to make fail only to get the “minority money”, to buy homes that will house 10-12 fellow illegals, then dump the house before they get caught because they haven’t paid their bills. Then drive off in their 2009 SUVs to a new house in a new neighborhood and do it again. All at the expense of the US taxpayer. And people say we treat THEM bad.

There is no reason to believe illegal aliens are doing this

Political Correctness is the language of cowards!

did you know Samuel Johnson was not American?

 

[Bullfighter]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullfighter forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cab/viewpost.gif
You consider breaking into the US the same as walking down the street?

This is the crime you complain of, it is what it is

Now there’s an intelligent answer.

Quote:
Maybe you think the illegal immigrant should be considered as “just a tourist” who plans to feed off of Americans for say 50 or 60 years and is totally harmless to real Americans.

actually it is the other way around, most of the immigrants will be feeding the US, both pyhsically and through paying taxes

Really? Then why do they send so much of America’s money south of the border? How does this help the average American? And why do most of these people claim poverty when they come from countries south of the border that the UN declares in better shape compared to most of the other 200+ countries of the world?

Quote:

You make it seem so innocent!

it is what it is

Only if you sit on your hands and LET IT HAPPEN. Just like Nazi Germany.

Quote:
They weren’t using fake IDs to set up bank accounts, to get loans, to start businesses that they intend to make fail only to get the “minority money”, to buy homes that will house 10-12 fellow illegals, then dump the house before they get caught because they haven’t paid their bills. Then drive off in their 2009 SUVs to a new house in a new neighborhood and do it again. All at the expense of the US taxpayer. And people say we treat THEM bad.

There is no reason to believe illegal aliens are doing this

I live in a neighborhood where this is quite common. You might want to check the FBIs website for more scams. It’s called fraud by the way.

Quote:

Political Correctness is the language of cowards!

did you know Samuel Johnson was not American?

You mean you didn’t quote an immigrant? Shame on you!

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullfighter forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cab/viewpost.gif
You consider breaking into the US the same as walking down the street?

Now there’s an intelligent answer.

Yes it is. The facts are walking down the street is the crime you wish to punish

Quote:
Maybe you think the illegal immigrant should be considered as “just a tourist” who plans to feed off of Americans for say 50 or 60 years and is totally harmless to real Americans.

Really? Then why do they send so much of America’s money south of the border? How does this help the average American? And why do most of these people claim poverty when they come from countries south of the border that the UN declares in better shape compared to most of the other 200+ countries of the world?

Coffee, bananas. flowers, etc all come from south of the border thus we should pay for them. If a worker wants to send money or own land south of the border well that is his business

Quote:

You make it seem so innocent!

That is strictly your opinion

Only if you sit on your hands and LET IT HAPPEN. Just like Nazi Germany.

?? I am not aware of immigration being Nazi Germany’s key issue?

Quote:
They weren’t using fake IDs to set up bank accounts, to get loans, to start businesses that they intend to make fail only to get the “minority money”, to buy homes that will house 10-12 fellow illegals, then dump the house before they get caught because they haven’t paid their bills. Then drive off in their 2009 SUVs to a new house in a new neighborhood and do it again. All at the expense of the US taxpayer. And people say we treat THEM bad.

I live in a neighborhood where this is quite common. You might want to check the FBIs website for more scams. It’s called fraud by the way.

That makes NO SENSE, none. The idea that 12million illegal immigrants are involved in this is rediculous

Quote:

Political Correctness is the language of cowards!

You mean you didn’t quote an immigrant? Shame on you!

How do you know if he was or was not an immgrant? (isn’t that your business)

 

[Bullfighter]

Yes it is. The facts are walking down the street is the crime you wish to punish.

Sneaking across the border is the crime. Defrauding the US citizen is the crime.

Coffee, bananas. flowers, etc all come from south of the border thus we should pay for them. If a worker wants to send money or own land south of the border well that is his business

You forgot to mention all forms of dangerous drugs that have been pushed on the American public for years. They should be payed for those too right? If the worker wants to clean out the US treasury and send it south, who will stop him?

I am not aware of immigration being Nazi Germany’s key issue?

What was Hitler’s excuse to invade the Sudetenland of Czechoslovakia. Oh, yeah. German people who live there are being persecuted by the Czechs. So he walked right in and occupied it. And of course, a few months later, took all of Czechoslovakia. All invasions start small. And they are allowed to happen by smaller men.

That makes NO SENSE, none. The idea that 12million illegal immigrants are involved in this is rediculous

In a world where jets fly into buildings, anything is possible!

 

[latinmasslover]

Yes, they should as a matter of practicality, but should it be a law? Do you think Americans who work over sees should be required to learn the native language? If they work in Saudia Arabia, Arabic, for example?

Yes, and if they work overseas by choice, absolutely.

 

[latinmasslover]

This is simply untrue

He said “real” Americans, not just Americans.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Originally Posted by Bullfighter
… And **no **real American wants them to stay.

This is simply untrue

He said “real” Americans, not just Americans.

Let me help you - what is written is “no real Americans” thus a single relative or most economists which welcome the immigrants make the statement - simply untrue

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Sneaking across the border is the crime.

It is a crime by our choice

Defrauding the US citizen is the crime.

most, the vast majority do not defraud

You forgot to mention all forms of dangerous drugs that have been pushed on the American public for years. They should be payed for those too right?

One of the first things foreign leaders say to the US representitives is please work to reduce the US DEMAND for drugs as this drug business and the US money used to obtain these drugs are distroying our country

If the worker wants to clean out the US treasury and send it south, who will stop him?

A US worker has no control nor access to the US Treasury

What was Hitler’s excuse to invade the Sudetenland of Czechoslovakia. Oh, yeah. German people who live there are being persecuted by the Czechs. So he walked right in and occupied it. And of course, a few months later, took all of Czechoslovakia. All invasions start small. And they are allowed to happen by smaller men.

?? ?? , Germany, Poland, Russia, Lithuania, Denmark, Belgium,Czech Republic were all parts of the Prussian Emperor. So if one recognizes the Prussian Emperor that simply makes no sense. I think you will find Germany wanted to re-establish the Prussian Emperor

In a world where jets fly into buildings, anything is possible!

good how about loving your neighbor?

 

[Bullfighter]

]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullfighter forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cab/viewpost.gif
Sneaking across the border is the crime.

It is a crime by our choice

It is a crime recognized by every soveriegn state in the world. Each nation has the right to make laws and people from other nations should respect them or prepare to go to war.

Quote:
Defrauding the US citizen is the crime.

most, the vast majority do not defraud

**Every person who illegally came to this country broke the laws of this country. They compound the crime by using fake IDs and attempt to live here. They use services they didn’t pay for. Simply saying they pay taxes is ridiculous because they shouldn’t be here. **

They won’t have the responsibilities of a US citizen so why should they get the benefits of a US citizen. I won’t be able to get healthcare because those illegals already ran through the healthcare budget of my county for the year.

Quote:

You forgot to mention all forms of dangerous drugs that have been pushed on the American public for years. They should be payed for those too right?

One of the first things foreign leaders say to the US representitives is please work to reduce the US DEMAND for drugs as this drug business and the US money used to obtain these drugs are distroying our country

That is called hypocrisy. Why are some of the South American countries counting on drug money as part of their GNP. They would be broke without the illegal drug money. Every one of those loud mouth Latin American leaders who make statements like that have been proved to be working with the drug dealers not against them. Vincente Fox was helping the drug cartels. Even Mexican journalists admit to this.

Quote:
If the worker wants to clean out the US treasury and send it south, who will stop him?

A US worker has no control nor access to the US Treasury

The Latin Americans tapped into our banking system years ago. They were caught doing it. During the Clinton administration.

Quote:

What was Hitler’s excuse to invade the Sudetenland of Czechoslovakia. Oh, yeah. German people who live there are being persecuted by the Czechs. So he walked right in and occupied it. And of course, a few months later, took all of Czechoslovakia. All invasions start small. And they are allowed to happen by smaller men.

?? ?? , Germany, Poland, Russia, Lithuania, Denmark, Belgium,Czech Republic were all parts of the Prussian Emperor. So if one recognizes the Prussian Emperor that simply makes no sense. I think you will find Germany wanted to re-establish the Prussian Emperor

Like Mexico wants to annex America?

Quote:
In a world where jets fly into buildings, anything is possible!

good how about loving your neighbor?

I’ll love him when he gets on HIS side of the border and stays there. Give people from the other parts of the world a chance to immigrate.

 

[Bullfighter]

Let me help you - what is written is “no real Americans” thus a single relative or most economists which welcome the immigrants make the statement - simply untrue

Businesses want consumers. That is not exactly news. However, the owners of those businesses live in gated communities and won’t be exposed to the crime that comes across that border. But even those businesses are having problems getting loans because of all the trouble that those illegals have already created throughout the country with their illegal loans and other fraud.

Someone has to pay the bill for every kid that an illegal plops on the door of the US. No one expects that child to pay for anything until it reaches 18. It is likely that each child will cost a quarter of a million dollars by the time it turns 18 in educational expenses alone. PK-12 in my neighborhood cost around $180,000 right now, but with inflation over 14 years, it will probably be even higher that a quarter million.

Remember that an illegal hopping the border into this country has never payed into the system that most Americans started paying into once they reached 18-21 years of age. After 20 years of paying taxes, Americans are entitled to some public benefits.

I going to a county hospital tomorrow to continue my fight to get benefits that illegals get with no questions asked. Because I have a history in this country, I’m expected to pay for everything that no one would ask of a immigrant. They get the free ride. If not, they’ll be demonstrating on how bad the Americans are treating them.

Hey! Wasn’t that exactly what I said about Czechoslovakia and Adolph?

 

[Texas_Roofer]

]

It is a crime recognized by every soveriegn state in the world. Each nation has the right to make laws and people from other nations should respect them or prepare to go to war.

that is not fraud or defrauding as you say

**Every person who illegally came to this country broke the laws of this country. They compound the crime by using fake IDs and attempt to live here. They use services they didn’t pay for. Simply saying they pay taxes is ridiculous because they shouldn’t be here. **

but they do pay taxes; payroll, sales tax, fuel tax etc…

They won’t have the responsibilities of a US citizen so why should they get the benefits of a US citizen. I won’t be able to get healthcare because those illegals already ran through the healthcare budget of my county for the year.

Well if that is true on January 5th it would seem there are other issues

**That is called hypocrisy. **

That makes no sense, American spend 100’s of million for illegal drugs then you expect a poor countries government to stop that?

** Why are some of the South American countries counting on drug money as part of their GNP. They would be broke without the illegal drug money. Every one of those loud mouth Latin American leaders **who make statements like that have been proved to be working with the drug dealers not against them. Vincente Fox was helping the drug cartels. Even Mexican journalists admit to this.

US citizens funnel the money to these countries so it is us who do this

The Latin Americans tapped into our banking system years ago. They were caught doing it. During the Clinton administration.

simply opening a savings account is not debtremental to the US banking system

Quote:

What was Hitler’s excuse to invade the Sudetenland of Czechoslovakia. Oh, yeah. German people who live there are being persecuted by the Czechs. So he walked right in and occupied it. And of course, a few months later, took all of Czechoslovakia. All invasions start small. And they are allowed to happen by smaller men.

That was a nation to nation conflect not a migration issue at all

Like Mexico wants to annex America?

says who?

I’ll love him when he gets on HIS side of the border and stays there. Give people from the other parts of the world a chance to immigrate.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Businesses want consumers. That is not exactly news. However, the owners of those businesses live in gated communities and won’t be exposed to the crime that comes across that border. But even those businesses are having problems getting loans because of all the trouble that those illegals have already created throughout the country with their illegal loans and other fraud.

Someone has to pay the bill for every kid that an illegal plops on the door of the US. No one expects that child to pay for anything until it reaches 18. It is likely that each child will cost a quarter of a million dollars by the time it turns 18 in educational expenses alone. PK-12 in my neighborhood cost around $180,000 right now, but with inflation over 14 years, it will probably be even higher that a quarter million.

Remember that an illegal hopping the border into this country has never payed into the system that most Americans started paying into once they reached 18-21 years of age. After 20 years of paying taxes, Americans are entitled to some public benefits.

I going to a county hospital tomorrow to continue my fight to get benefits that illegals get with no questions asked. Because I have a history in this country, I’m expected to pay for everything that no one would ask of a immigrant. They get the free ride. If not, they’ll be demonstrating on how bad the Americans are treating them.

Hey! Wasn’t that exactly what I said about Czechoslovakia and Adolph?

Chicago spends $11,300 per year which is a very high amount so that is 13 x $11,300 = $146,900 that is a long way from $250,000.
teachersofcolor.com/news/chicagostudentsboycott.html

 

[Monica37]

Americans have sacrificed too much? Have we? With our plasma TVs, High def, iPods, SUVs, McMansions, A/C and heat … Wow … that is really a sacrifice! If you are an uncharitable person, that’s your deal, but that is not Catholic teaching. Christ say Love your neighbor, he did not mention your American neighbor first. That is why I love my Catholic Church, it’s truly Universal, not a local, one. It is Universal, as Our Lord is, and WE were created ALL, not only Americans, in His image and likeness.

Stop hating, start loving, as Jesus did.

Where do you live? I think this is a valid question as I think things are different in border states.

 

[FK04US]

Where do you live? I think this is a valid question as I think things are different in border states.

Hi Monica. I live in DC. And I stand by my word. The USA is full of consumption and material things. And I have lived in Michigan, Florida, New York, Virginia, and Texas. And I´ve seen iPods, laptops, SUVs, and crazy shopping EVERYWHERE. So, I don´t buy the whole idea that we have sacrificed too much. Africa, Asia, and some Latinamerican countries have sacrificed too much. We are lucky to live in a country where most of us can afford much more than what needed in order to live. So charity and compassion with the poor (not only the American poor) is a Catholic mandate.

 

[pnewton]

Only if you sit on your hands and LET IT HAPPEN. Just like Nazi Germany.

Again with the Nazi Germany bit. There is a basic moral difference. Namely the battle against evil in Nazi Germany dealt with object moral evils. Immigration, legal and illegal, are issues where objective evil does not exist. Check the Catechism, if you doubt this. There is room for legitimate disagreement.

 

[Bullfighter]

Chicago spends $11,300 per year which is a very high amount so that is 13 x $11,300 = $146,900 that is a long way from $250,000.
teachersofcolor.com/news/chicagostudentsboycott.html

That’s Chicago. My town has 92-96% hispanic enrollment. The17 elementary schools has 13,552 students at an expense of $12,580.00/student and 2 secondary schools have 4,761 students at an expense of $16,716.00/student.

$12,580 x 8 = $100,640. + $16,716. x 4 = 66,864. Total 167,504.00 plus two grades PK + K at an estimate of 6,248.00 each year for a total of $180,000.00.

That is just in today’s money. By the time a student who starts 1st Grade this year reaches Grade 12 many years from now that total will have gone up for that student to $250,000.00 and that seems a little on the conservative side.

The total expenditures for one year is $250,069,036.00, more than a quarter of a billion dollars. And only 70% of the delicate geniuses graduate. I guess the other 30% figure they have a career in the lucrative field of gangbanging.

God Bless America!

 

[Bullfighter]

Again with the Nazi Germany bit. There is a basic moral difference. Namely the battle against evil in Nazi Germany dealt with object moral evils. Immigration, legal and illegal, are issues where objective evil does not exist. Check the Catechism, if you doubt this. There is room for legitimate disagreement.

Since my town has been overrun with these hard working delicate geniuses, I consider myself living in “Occupied America”. It is the same for a French patriots living in Vichy France during WW2. It was not only the Nazi soldiers who occupied France but also those French citizens who collaborated with them that made up the evil.

When an American town is overrun with the people of an enemy country that ruin the standard of living and peace of mind for those lawful patriotic American citizens, that constitutes evil.

Maybe I should have a discussion with the gangs in my neighborhood about what constitutes evil?