How to tell Catholic in-laws you're not using NFP

[JSSD]

This, however, caused me pause. You are aware that you will be asked this question:

And by that I mean that if you are all in the Catholic form and that good stuff… the priest or deacon will literally ask you this question right before reciting your vows. Are you comfortable lying about that? And are you aware that lying about it opens the door wide open for annulment down the line? That is, your marriage will not exist when you lie during the wedding ceremony.

If I may speak from a former Protestant / non-Catholic perspective, which was my own perspective when I was married, these questions may be completely irrelevant. Obviously, they are relevant to me now, but they would not have been then. This is what I might have thought:

Even if you are using NFP (let alone BC), that would imply you don’t want kids now, but it does not necessarily imply you won’t accept children lovingly from God, etc.

Next point, if you aren’t Catholic, chances are if things really go badly, you don’t care about an annulment. Likewise, the marriage certainly will exist in the eyes of the state, likely in the eyes of your church, and maybe just not the Catholic church in question.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’m seeking advice on how I should handle discussing this topic with her without being rude and how to keep her respect.

When the topic comes up, I would say this: I have no intention of ever telling anyone whether we are “trying” or “not trying” or “really trying” or “avoiding” or whether we want boys or girls or twins or two or four or ten or anything else. If you get pregnant when you told everyone you were avoiding, then there are mouths flapping about that, and if you tell everyone you’re trying, and then you don’t get pregnant, there are mouths flapping about that and it is hard enough to want a child and not be able to have one without that. I don’t need it, and our children certainly don’t need it.

IMHO, this is a good rule, whether you use NFP or not.

If she says she would never tell, you say: No offense to you, but as Hotspur said to his wife: “Thou wilt not utter what thou dost not know; And so far will I trust thee, gentle Kate.”

 

[shelby_sun]

So confused!?

You are agnostic your fiancee is Catholic and you got a dispensation to marry in a Church that neither of you belong to?

Oy Vey!

Think she made it clear she only wanted to discuss how to talk to her mother-in-law. She has said this now a couple of times. Do you have any thoughts on that?

 

[EasterJoy]

Think she made it clear she only wanted to discuss how to talk to her mother-in-law. She has said this now a couple of times. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Actually, I think it is a good idea for every couple to learn NFP whether they intend to avoid pregnancy or not, and to use it to learn about the wife’s body by going to the trouble of keeping observations. The knowledge of their probably pattern of fertility gained by doing NFP observations is quite valuable, even if the knowledge is not used to time marital relations. More to the point, it is valuable knowledge from the standpoint of gynecological health, too.

If the OP ever throws out some bit of knowledge of herself gained by means of self-observation learned through NFP, well, the in-laws can draw what conclusions from that they will. Personally, I’d not feel any particular necessity to throw MIL that bone. She needs to find serenity in minding her own business which, to be fair, she seems to have done so far, only dropping hints that she’d be open to any conversations her adult children would like. After all, she teaches NFP. She is naturally going to bring the topic up, probably even while having lunch with her post-menopausal friends, since she spends so much time thinking about it! The OP should not make more of that than she feels inclined to do.

 

[Cathmomof6]

As a catholic mother, I would be deeply heartbroken and would rather not have my perceived failure to bring my children to God(my lifelong goal) rubbed in my face. Keep quite unless you genuinely want to learn more from your MIL, who may even enlighten you a bit.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Think she made it clear she only wanted to discuss how to talk to her mother-in-law. She has said this now a couple of times. Do you have any thoughts on that?

From a knowledge standpoint she should learn and practice NFP. Most people should at least learn about their bodies rather than pump it full of synthetic hormones. Most people go around talking about BPA this and Organic produce that and then pop a pill full of all kinds of trash. Not only that, but few know about the mechanisms of the “medicine” they are talking and it’s risks for not only the woman but any penitential human life created.

As for the future MIL.

1. it is not really her business. I think she said that they teach nfp. That means that they are probably pretty vocal about it though.
2. Children will come up, from both sets of protential grandparents and cousins and even the checker at the store…
3. The son will someday have to become a man and stand on his own with his wife and tell his parents they are not Catholic.

Perhaps they are too scared to do this now. But someday, he will need to be a man about it.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Ironic that we are advising a non Catholic on this subject when so few Catholics follow the Church on this issue at all.

perhaps that should be the answer of the OP.

“We are going to do what a majority of your own faith does in this matter. We are on the side of the “faithful” here.”

Of course that is tongue in cheek.

 

[haileenotbailee]

From a knowledge standpoint she should learn and practice NFP. Most people should at least learn about their bodies rather than pump it full of synthetic hormones. Most people go around talking about BPA this and Organic produce that and then pop a pill full of all kinds of trash. Not only that, but few know about the mechanisms of the “medicine” they are talking and it’s risks for not only the woman but any penitential human life created.

I would like to reiterate, we HAVE gone through all of the Natural Family Planning classes for soon to be married couples and I have researched it greatly. I wanted to make an informed decision on this topic. I understand the risks with the Pill but it’s my choice.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

My sons are too small to get married.

I probably wouldn’t discuss NFP with my future daughter in law unless she asked me. But my son is still young enough to enjoy watching Dora the explorer.

 

[maryjk]

As a catholic mother, I would be deeply heartbroken and would rather not have my perceived failure to bring my children to God(my lifelong goal) rubbed in my face. Keep quiet unless you genuinely want to learn more from your MIL, who may even enlighten you a bit.

As for the future MIL.

1. it is not really her business. I think she said that they teach nfp. That means that they are probably pretty vocal about it though.
2. Children will come up, from both sets of protential grandparents and cousins and even the checker at the store…
3. The son will someday have to become a man and stand on his own with his wife and tell his parents they are not Catholic.

Perhaps they are too scared to do this now. But someday, he will need to be a man about it.

Yep. Keep quiet about it. No one’s parents need to know what kind, if any, of birth control a couple is using. Sorry, that is just too private for it to be general conversation.

But as Hoosier Daddy said, at some point your husband to be has to be a man and tell his parents (mother) that he is no longer a practicing Catholic. Honestly, if he is old enough to take a wife, he should be old enough to tell his parents about his faith.

 

[EasterJoy]

So confused!?

You are agnostic your fiancee is Catholic and you got a dispensation to marry in a Church that neither of you belong to?

Oy Vey!

She was raised in the Church of Christ and presumably baptized in that denomination, so there is nothing wrong with her self-identifying with that denomination. In my limited experience, that particular denomination does not lean on the 1st commandment obligation of Sunday worship of God in a congregational setting nearly so much as Catholics do. Many people, especially young people, self-identify as agnostic when they only mean their faith is weak or they are going through a period of darkness that they imagine to be permanent.

(Speaking of oy vey, there are a lot of Jews who self-identify as Jews even though they do not go to synagogue. Did you know that while Sandy Koufax did not pitch in the first game of the World Series, he was a secular Jew who did not go to synagogue? That according to all accounts, he’d never made his bar mitzvah? Not everyone has the same requirements for self-identification with a religious sect.)

 

[mommamaree]

You know the saying “good fences make good neighbors”? I think that is the way to go here. It is understandable to not want to discuss your sex life and family planning ideas with your future MIL. That would be weird and uncomfortable no matter what aspect is being discussed. I think telling her that you feel uncomfortable discussing these matters with her, considering your close relation, is an acceptable answer. She might persist, especially since she is an instructor. But if you remain a closed door on the topic, she should get the hint. Additionally, if she makes a habit out of asking you, or begins to badger you or pry for details, I think it should be your husband who steps in to make it clear that it is not her business and she needs to leave you alone about it.

 

[shelby_sun]

From a knowledge standpoint she should learn and practice NFP. Most people should at least learn about their bodies rather than pump it full of synthetic hormones. Most people go around talking about BPA this and Organic produce that and then pop a pill full of all kinds of trash. Not only that, but few know about the mechanisms of the “medicine” they are talking and it’s risks for not only the woman but any penitential human life created.

As for the future MIL.

1. it is not really her business. I think she said that they teach nfp. That means that they are probably pretty vocal about it though.
2. Children will come up, from both sets of protential grandparents and cousins and even the checker at the store…
3. The son will someday have to become a man and stand on his own with his wife and tell his parents they are not Catholic.

Perhaps they are too scared to do this now. But someday, he will need to be a man about it.

Again, those are your opinions and the teaching of the Catholic Church, which she specifically and kindly said she didn’t want. As she is not Catholic she has no responsibility to follow that teaching no matter what you believe.

Is it impossible for you and others simply not to respect her post and her wishes? Really?

 

[EasterJoy]

Yep. Keep quiet about it. No one’s parents need to know what kind, if any, of birth control a couple is using. Sorry, that is just too private for it to be general conversation.

But as Hoosier Daddy said, at some point your husband to be has to be a man and tell his parents (mother) that he is no longer a practicing Catholic. Honestly, if he is old enough to take a wife, he should be old enough to tell his parents about his faith.

I hope neither of you are implying that a person who has a sense of privacy and decides not to wake sleeping dogs and cause strife with no positive goal must therefore lack courage. It is up to him what he wants to tell his parents (or not tell them) about his faith. He is no less of a man because he doesn’t tell his parents everything about his life.

It may be that he does not tell them because they have taught him not to trust them with any information about his own decisions that they will disagree with. That does not make him less of a man. That only means that he unfortunately has to keep his own counsel because they have not been willing to acknowledge that he is already his own man. He is man enough to avoid pointless battles where no one wins–that is a man! There is a difference, and it would be good if more parents of adult children recognized it.

 

[shelby_sun]

You know the saying “good fences make good neighbors”? I think that is the way to go here. It is understandable to not want to discuss your sex life and family planning ideas with your future MIL. That would be weird and uncomfortable no matter what aspect is being discussed. I think telling her that you feel uncomfortable discussing these matters with her, considering your close relation, is an acceptable answer. She might persist, especially since she is an instructor. But if you remain a closed door on the topic, she should get the hint. Additionally, if she makes a habit out of asking you, or begins to badger you or pry for details, I think it should be your husband who steps in to make it clear that it is not her business and she needs to leave you alone about it.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

She was raised in the Church of Christ and presumably baptized in that denomination, so there is nothing wrong with her self-identifying with that denomination. In my limited experience, that particular denomination does not lean on the 1st commandment obligation of Sunday worship of God in a congregational setting nearly so much as Catholics do. Many people, especially young people, self-identify as agnostic when they only mean their faith is weak or they are going through a period of darkness that they imagine to be permanent.

(Speaking of oy vey, there are a lot of Jews who self-identify as Jews even though they do not go to synagogue. Did you know that while Sandy Koufax did not pitch in the first game of the World Series, he was a secular Jew who did not go to synagogue? That according to all accounts, he’d never made his bar mitzvah? Not everyone has the same requirements for self-identification with a religious sect.)

But she does not identify as a member of that Church, she specifically identified as agnostic.
Does she attend regularly, hold to the beliefs of this Church? Or is this just where her family wants them to get married. For a dispensation to be given there needs to be some pressing issue. Yet the OP repeatedly states that it is HIS family that they are placating with a sham.

I think there is some disingeniousness going on here.

The silver lining may be that IF the OP fiancee ever finds his way back to the Church, and decides a life of children and Catholicism is for him. An annulment will most certainly be on the table.

Because they are admittedly not agreeing with the vow and sacrament of Marriage. And we as Catholics should not encourage that.

This type of thing is why I have so much trouble with having a “more pastoral” approach to the Catholic divorced and invalid remarried always complaining about how they cannot receive communion.

This marriage is a decision that will impact the rest of their lives and their very souls. I think they should respect their families enough to not be dishonest about it. And respect my faith enough to not be sacrilegious with it.

Many people, especially young people, self-identify as agnostic when they only mean their faith is weak or they are going through a period of darkness that they imagine to be permanent

While this is true, it is not a reason to commit a fraud or a sacrilege.

 

[The_Bucket]

Because they are admittedly not agreeing with the vow and sacrament of Marriage. And we as Catholics should not encourage that.

Right. This is an attempt to find a loophole to placate other people. Which is counterproductive and dishonest.

This type of thing is why I have so much trouble with having a “more pastoral” approach to the Catholic divorced and invalid remarried always complaining about how they cannot receive communion.

This marriage is a decision that will impact the rest of their lives and their very souls. I think they should respect their families enough to not be dishonest about it. And respect my faith enough to not be sacrilegious with it.

I see it differently actually. I think these kinds of situations are actually very common and thus necessitate the “pastoral” approach to reverts down the line. We should do all we can do to stand up for the bond while at the same time celebrate the returning of prodigal sons and daughters.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I hope neither of you are implying that a person who has a sense of privacy and decides not to wake sleeping dogs and cause strife with no positive goal must therefore lack courage. It is up to him what he wants to tell his parents (or not tell them) about his faith. He is no less of a man because he doesn’t tell his parents everything about his life.

That argument stops being relevant the minute they admit to placating the relatives with the marriage. Then it becomes less a private matter and more a scandalous one.

 

[shelby_sun]

But she does not identify as a member of that Church, she specifically identified as agnostic.
Does she attend regulary, hold to the beliefs of this Church? Or is this just where her family wants them to get married. For a dispensation to be given there needs to be some pressing issue. Yet the OP repeatedly states that it is HIS family that they are placating with a sham.

I think there is some ingeniousness going on here.

The silver lining may be that IF the OP fiancee ever finds his way back to the Church, and decides a life of children and Catholicism is for him. An annulment will most certainly be on the table.

Because they are admittedly not agreeing with the vow and sacrament of Marriage. And we as Catholics should not encourage that.

This type of thing is why I have so much trouble with having a “more pastoral” approach to the Catholic divorced and invalid remarried always complaining about how they cannot receive communion.

This marriage is a decision that will impact the rest of their lives and their very souls. I think they should respect their families enough to not be dishonest about it. And respect my faith enough to not be sacrilegious with it.

Why is it that people pull the" disgeniousness" card when they do not agree with the OP. You continue to push your agenda an this post which is completely off the topic the OP intended. Why is that when there are more then enough post on the topic you insist on speaking about. You seem to want to derail this post to serve your own purpose. Again this is about talking or not talking to her mother-in-law. Again can you simply not respect her post?

 

[Lorelei12]

Thank you, everyone, for your answers!! I feel a lot better about this now. I just didn’t know if it was common in Catholic families to discuss their NFP practices with each other or not.

I guess I can’t speak for any family but my own, but this is not a topic of conversation in my family. I know that there are some families that are more “open” about these types of things, but in general I think it’s best to keep such things between you and your spouse. Even if your in-laws teach NFP, that doesn’t mean you need to divulge personal details about your married sex life with them! Only give people information that is owed to them, or that you don’t mind making their business.