How to tell parents that my brother is gay

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BlueEyedLady said:
We’re talking about people who have never really attended mass, right? There’s a good chance they have no idea what to expect and that would definitely make a lot of people apprehensive. In our current social climate, I could see that being even more true for LGBT people.
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No, not necessarily. We have quite a few Masses yearly where we invite other faith communities to learn about ours…and vice versa.
 
Thorolfr said:
You’re probably right. Leviticus, 20:13 calls the act an “abomination” in the King James Version. But then it says, “they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them” which it would be just as disturbing for any LGBT person to listen to in a church. And there are conservative Evangelical Christian pastors who still call for the death penalty for anyone who commits homosexual acts.
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Doesn’t that include adulterers and fornicators as well? So I guess straight people can’t go to Church or they might hear something they may have done is an abomination? Pre-marital sex is very common now and some marriages have experienced cheating. We are all sinners so I guess we need to grow up or stay in our safe place.
 
oneofmany said:
Doesn’t that include adulterers and fornicators as well? So I guess straight people can’t go to Church or they might hear something they may have done is an abomination? Pre-marital sex is very common now and some marriages have experienced cheating. We are all sinners so I guess we need to grow up or stay in our safe place.
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So you think that most people going to church would be comfortable hearing that they deserve to be put to death because they’re sinners?
 
Thorolfr said:
So you think that most people going to church would be comfortable hearing that they deserve to be put to death because they’re sinners?
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They won’t hear that from Christianity. That is in the Old Testament and yes they did put people to death back then by stoning. We have come a long way baby but we also can’t be babies when reading the Old Testament. Get Trent Horn’s book, “Hard Sayings”.

If you don’t want to hear things that “hurt your feelings” don’t go to Church at all or anywhere else really.
 
oneofmany said:
They won’t hear that from Christianity. That is in the Old Testament and yes they did put people to death back then by stoning. We have come a long way baby but we also can’t be babies when reading the Old Testament. Get Trent Horn’s book, “Hard Sayings”.

If you don’t want to hear things that “hurt your feelings” don’t go to Church at all or anywhere else really.
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You obviously don’t know much about other Christian churches besides the Catholic Church if you think that there are not fundamentalist pastors who still call for Old Testament punishments for certain sins. Just a couple of examples:
Ron Paul’s campaign is touting the endorsement of Phillip G. Kayser, an Iowa pastor who believes in imposing the death penalty on homosexuals, reports Talking Points Memo.
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“We welcome Rev. Kayser’s endorsement and the enlightening statements he makes on how Ron Paul’s approach to government is consistent with Christian beliefs,” said Paul’s Iowa chairman, Drew Ivers, in a recent press release on Paul’s campaign website.
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“Difficulty in implementing Biblical law does not make non-Biblical penology just,” wrote Kayser in a recent pamphlet. “But as we have seen, while many homosexuals would be executed, the threat of capital punishment can be restorative.” Kayser added that homosexuals could be prosecuted only after the law was enacted.
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huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/28/phillip-kayser-ron-paul-gays-iowa-caucus-2012_n_1173338.html
EARLIER this month, in Des Moines, the prominent home-schooling advocate and pastor Kevin Swanson again called for the punishment of homosexuality by death. To be clear, he added that the time for eliminating America’s gay population was “not yet” at hand. We must wait for the nation to embrace the one true religion, he suggested, and gay people must be allowed to repent and convert.
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nytimes.com/2015/11/16/opinion/campaign-stops/ted-cruz-and-the-anti-gay-pastor.html?_r=0
 
Thorolfr said:
So you think that most people going to church would be comfortable hearing that they deserve to be put to death because they’re sinners?
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No, but they would be told of the healing power of confession!
 
Rau said:
Oh yes, for an hour a week a son, while living with parents, chooses to attend mass out of consideration for his parents. So let’s condemn him for “living a lie”. And if he chooses to have dinner with his parents on a Sunday, even though he doesn’t greatly enjoy their company, or their food, that’s “living a lie” too. I keep forgetting, “it’s all about me”! Any subordination of my rights and wants to another is “living a lie”. 🤷
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Woah Woah! Where did you get that we’re living with our parents?! My parents wanted to pull that “my house, my rules” card with going to church on Sunday and you know what? I completely agree. It’s their house and they can put whatever crazy rules they like. So I looked for a nice apartment near campus with my boyfriend and put that argument behind me. 🤷 If we go have dinner with them, we’ll have dinner/breakfast/brunch after/before they have church.

So far what I’m getting from all this is
  1. Not following your parents beliefs is disrespectful.
  2. Not going to your parents religious services is disrespectful.
  3. 1 & 2 Only applies if you’re Catholic, :rolleyes:
 
BioNerd said:
So far what I’m getting from all this is
  1. Not following your parents beliefs is disrespectful.
  2. Not going to your parents religious services is disrespectful.
  3. 1 & 2 Only applies if you’re Catholic, :rolleyes:
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You didn’t get it from me.
 
ConfusedLucy said:
Are things any better with your brother and parents?
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Sort of. Our dad is actually taking it much better than anyone. He’s actually having issues with our mom right now because she’s the one that’s being really…concerned, to put it lightly and kindly, about all this. We did tell them about Thanksgiving to which my dad will be attending for a little while while my mother boycotts the event at their home. 🤷 We tried coaxing her to come but she refuses unless my brother shows up alone. Either way, it’ll all work out eventually.
 
Rau said:
I didn’t - the post is not about you/your family. You’re not followed the discussion.
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Well you commented on my post with:
Oh yes, for an hour a week a son, while living with parents, chooses to attend mass out of consideration for his parents. So let’s condemn him for “living a lie”. And if he chooses to have dinner with his parents on a Sunday, even though he doesn’t greatly enjoy their company, or their food, that’s “living a lie” too. I keep forgetting, “it’s all about me”! Any subordination of my rights and wants to another is “living a lie”.

so…🤷
 
BioNerd said:
Well you commented on my post with:
Oh yes, for an hour a week a son, while living with parents, chooses to attend mass out of consideration for his parents. So let’s condemn him for “living a lie”. And if he chooses to have dinner with his parents on a Sunday, even though he doesn’t greatly enjoy their company, or their food, that’s “living a lie” too. I keep forgetting, “it’s all about me”! Any subordination of my rights and wants to another is “living a lie”.

so…🤷
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So try harder to follow the thread. 🤷
 
Rau said:
So try harder to follow the thread. 🤷
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No. Regardless of whether or not you’ve meant to, you’ve been very harsh towards anyone who doesn’t feel right engaging in your religion. Maybe you think you’ve been vague enough that you still have plausible deniability, but I would be shocked if anyone could read this thread and think anything but :eek:.

From insisting that respect obligates gay children to tolerate verbal abuse to mocking anyone who draws any sort of line in the sand regarding their own religion as selfish…you’ve been very consistent.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
From insisting that respect obligates gay children to tolerate verbal abuse to mocking anyone who draws any sort of line in the sand regarding their own religion as selfish…you’ve been very consistent.
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I have not “insisted that gay children must tolerate abuse” - I argued that cutting a distraught parent some slack is a good thing to do.

I mocked no person, but I called out the nonsense that a small, kind, time limited act (introduced by Jim I think) in deference to one’s parents is “living a lie”.

You seem to parse everything through a lense that says “my individual rights are supreme”. Anyone suggesting “parking those rights for a moment” is then seen to advocate infringing personal rights. 🤷
 
Rau said:
I have not “insisted that gay children must tolerate abuse” - I argued that cutting a distraught parent some slack is a good thing to do.

I mocked no person, but I called out the nonsense that a small, kind, time limited act (introduced by Jim I think) in deference to one’s parents is “living a lie”.

You seem to parse everything through a lense that says “my individual rights are supreme”. Anyone suggesting “parking those rights for a moment” is then seen to advocate infringing personal rights. 🤷
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Thank you for this. This is exactly the behavior I’m talking about. You have shown no empathy towards the son in this situation at all. But, upon hearing that the mom freaked out, hurled insults, spent a week crying, and then called relatives to gang up on the son, you said:
You are annoyed…that your mother is somewhat distraught? Seeing that she is your mother…perhaps you could cut her some slack?
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That seems proportional to you? You’re really denying a bias? She gets to say whatever she wants because she’s upset, but no regard for her son not wanting to accept abuse at one of his most vulnerable moments?

No one has talked about personal rights but you. It’s not even pertinent to the discussion. You have taken the liberty of restating what those who disagree with you say in an inaccurate and derisive way. In fact, I explained why it might be better for family relationships in the long term if they refused to get sucked into the anger and negativity. It didn’t matter, couldn’t accept anything but heartless independence.:rolleyes:
 
BlueEyedLady said:
Thank you for this. This is exactly the behavior I’m talking about. You have shown no empathy towards the son in this situation at all. But, upon hearing that the mom freaked out, hurled insults, spent a week crying, and then called relatives to gang up on the son, you said:

That seems proportional to you? You’re really denying a bias? She gets to say whatever she wants because she’s upset, but no regard for her son not wanting to accept abuse at one of his most vulnerable moments?
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Deny my own words to cut mum some slack? Why? Empathy and compassion for the son was well addressed by other posters (and with which I concur), but it is those posters who chose to direct nothing but derision toward the mother, or my suggestion to go easy on her, with whom I took exception. If a poster is obligated to remark on all sides of an issue, then we’d be all guilty of “bias”. My aim was to add some balance, and doesn’t it seem to have caused a fuss with some. :rolleyes:

I won’t quote or comment on the last para in your post - other than to reject is as unconnected with the truth.

I am happy with the record as it stands and feel no need to further re-hash it. Over and out.
 
BioNerd said:
Sort of. Our dad is actually taking it much better than anyone. He’s actually having issues with our mom right now because she’s the one that’s being really…concerned, to put it lightly and kindly, about all this. We did tell them about Thanksgiving to which my dad will be attending for a little while while my mother boycotts the event at their home. 🤷 We tried coaxing her to come but she refuses unless my brother shows up alone. Either way, it’ll all work out eventually.
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I think it could take some time for your mother and all you can do is give her some space. I attend church with a lot of older people many who are grieving the fact that their children (many of which are in their 50s with their own families) no longer follow their faith. It often features in homilies so obviously many of these people are discussing this with their priests. I also get a sort of bewilderment from these people in that they did everything for their children that their parents did for them so why didn’t it work? I think it’s difficult for these people to accept that our generation is not as influenced by our parents as previous generations.

A lot of Christians have this belief that it is very normal for young people to leave church for a while and then return when they are ready to settle down and start families (I could go on about the problems I have with this but that’s another thread) so when one of their children maybe marries someone outside the faith or has a non-valid marriage, or maybe has a baby and doesn’t get them baptized or like your brother comes out as gay then this hope is suddenly dashed and the parent can react badly.

Now I get that you guys can’t make yourself believe what you don’t just to please someone else. All you can do is give her space to come to terms with the fact that her son isn’t going to be a model Catholic husband and father. It isn’t right that she is treating you guys like this but I don’t see what else you can do.
 
Rau said:
I won’t quote or comment on the last para in your post - other than to reject is as unconnected with the truth.

I am happy with the record as it stands and feel no need to further re-hash it. Over and out.
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No. Wrong again. The constant yammering about personal rights was totally unconnected to the truth - except to you. You are the only person relating not taking abuse to some sort of lofty, ideological concern for individualism. It is simply a way to distract from what others are actually saying in an attempt to just make them look like cruel, inflexible people.

And yes, the record more than speaks to that.
 
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