How to "treat" homosexual relative

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Orionthehunter and Estesbob -

I have a gay uncle, and a very conservative family, and we pretty much take the same approach. We treat him and his partner with respect, letting them know we love them unconditionally but don’t approve of their lifestyle. I know we also pray for them, that they will come to understand the wrongness of their lifestyle choices. They are included in all family gatherings.
 
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contemplative:
These are all beautiful Gospel messages but
I don’t see any where in the Bible where it says that love means slitting the wrists of your children for the devil. Do you?
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I fail to see how treating a fellow sinner with compassion and dignity is slitting the wrists of my children for the devil. My children are very well aware of the church’s teachings on homosexuality as well as loving our neighbor.
 
I have to chime in with OtherEric and Contemplative. I don’t agree with OtherEric completely (one poster cited another thread where I believe his understanding of homosexuality goes radically beyond Church teaching), but he and Contemplative are quite right regarding some of these issues. It’s “unjust” discrimination we’re cautioned against, not wise discrimination. We practice discrimination all of the time when we tell our children,“I don’t want you hanging out with that crowd,” or “You cannot listen to that music in this house” (we practice discrimination in taste, for that matter, ie, "I like Chagall far more that Klimt). I don’t think it’s “unjust” discrimination not to expose your children to objective and grave sin. Inviting the uncle to dinner, for example, but not the partner, seems to me to NOT be unjust. Not taking the children into these men’s home doesn’t seem to be unjust. Now, if the grandparent’s are having a family dinner and the man shows up with the partner, that’s kind of a tough one, but I’m not sure I would deprive my children of their grandparents or vice versa based on the choices of my siblings who might be present. I think I would talk with my children both before and after.
 
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dulcissima:
Orionthehunter and Estesbob -

I have a gay uncle, and a very conservative family, and we pretty much take the same approach. We treat him and his partner with respect, letting them know we love them unconditionally but don’t approve of their lifestyle. I know we also pray for them, that they will come to understand the wrongness of their lifestyle choices. They are included in all family gatherings.
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Fifty or more years ago no one had to wonder about whether to invite an openly homosexual uncle or aunt to a family gathering.
Today I wonder who or what this generation of people is born from? Who is this generation of people who bore these openly homosexual children? Who is this generation of people that say that we should include openly homosexual couples to tender family gatherings? I don’t understand.
 
I think a lot depends on how they act. If they’re two guys coming to dinner in the same car, behaving like gentlemen, I can handle that. Holding hands at the dinner table or exchanging “meaningful” glances over the pumpkin pie, or making suggestive jokes or expecting you to affirm their choice – that’s where I would draw the line.

I have an “alternative lifestyle” relative who cancelled her ticket to family events in my house three years ago when she made sexual advances to her brother and then to me. Our hospitality does not include acces to our bodies!
 
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contemplative:
Does unjust discrimination include a father and mother not inviting uncles Bill and Bob to a tender family gathering because they want to protect their home from the angst of openly blatant sin?
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I would think that is not unjust, particularly if children are involved. One may certainly show authentic love without endorsing certain situations.
 
fix said:
**2358 **The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

This is a correction to the CCC. It does not say they do not choose their condition.
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Very interesting. I got the quote I posted by following the quote posted by canne, which was from the vatican’s website:

Vatican Site Catechism

yet when I look it up on my own in the Vatican’s website, I can find both versions of the same point. I wonder why this happens…

Anyways, we still need to love them and respect them. It is still talking about people with these tendencies. The way I have always understood it is there may be a few that are genetically predisposed to this disorder but the vast majority do it by their own decision. Maybe that is why the Church changed it (are you sure the post you posted is the most up to date version?) so people would not say that they had a tendency when it was really a decision they made.
Regardless, my point still stands the same (with the exeption of the quoting of the point in the Catechism which may or may not be correct). This does not mean we have to condone the behavior (which the Catechism advises against) nor act like if it were not there. We just have to love the sinner hate the sin.
 
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mercygate:
I have an “alternative lifestyle” relative who cancelled her ticket to family events in my house three years ago when she made sexual advances to her brother and then to me. Our hospitality does not include acces to our bodies!
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That is really unusual I would guess.
 
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contemplative:
Fifty or more years ago no one had to wonder about whether to invite an openly homosexual uncle or aunt to a family gathering.
Today I wonder who or what this generation of people is born from? Who is this generation of people who bore these openly homosexual children? Who is this generation of people that say that we should include openly homosexual couples to tender family gatherings? I don’t understand.
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Who is this generation who bore these openly homosexual children?

Well, let’s see, my grandparents, both were both devout Christians who were firm but loving. They were not afraid to call a spade a spade. They raised seven children despite the financial hardships involved with doing that during the dustbowl era of Oklahoma. They never stopped trusting that God would provide. They sacrificed and did whatever it would take to make sure that all of their children would have college educations and opportunities that were not available to them.

Who is this generation of people that say that we should include openly homosexual couples to tender family gatherings? Well, I guess that would be the surviving sibilings, mostly now in their 60’s, who after losing one brother (my father) to an airplane accident, have some compassion for their other brother who is a disabled veteran who has tried and failed at marriage, and who came to the conclusion that he was gay after many years of struggle and therapy. At no time have they ever condoned his lifestyle. In fact they have very frequently told him that they do not approve and why. Just as frequently though, they have told him that he is their brother and they will always love him and be there for him.
 
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lifeisbeautiful:
Very interesting. I got the quote I posted by following the quote posted by canne, which was from the vatican’s website:Vatican link

yet when I look it up on my own in the Vatican’s website, I can find both versions of the same point. I wonder why this happens…

Anyways, we still need to love them and respect them. It is still talking about people with these tendencies. The way I have always understood it is there may be a few that are genetically predisposed to this disorder but the vast majority do it by their own decision. Maybe that is why the Church changed it (are you sure the post you posted is the most up to date version?) so people would not say that they had a tendency when it was really a decision they made.
Regardless, my point still stands the same (with the exeption of the quoting of the point in the Catechism which may or may not be correct). This does not mean we have to condone the behavior (which the Catechism advises against) nor act like if it were not there. We just have to love the sinner hate the sin.
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It is interesting since the Vatican says this:

** MODIFICATIONS
from the Edito Typica** INTRODUCTION

On September 8, 1997, Pope John Paul II formally promulgated the editio typica (the definitive Latin language edition) of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The next day the modifications to the original editions, published in the various modem languages, were made public. The modifications are intended to bring the texts of the modem language editions into conformity with the Latin text. This booklet contains the modifications to the English language text published in the United States in 1994 in trade editions and in 1995 in mass market editions. The numbers in bold preceding each of the modifications correspond to paragraph numbers in the original editions of the Catechism.

2358 The second sentence of this paragraph is to be changed to read as follows: This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial.
scborromeo.org/ccc/updates.htm
 
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Orionthehunter:
I think your approach is very measured. I’d just add one thing if you have children living with you and to make sure they have a firm understanding of the inherent wrongness of this relationship regardless of any percieved “good” they might observe (i.e. how they treat each other and “just love each other”). IMHO, for young people, distinguising between lovign the sinner while hating the sin is much harder.
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That is a good point-in my situation all of my children our adult and living in their own homes. If I had young children I doubt I would allow overnight stays. It would bring up too many questions , the answers to which would not be appropriate to their age.

I want to stress again that i have unconditional love for all members of my family-I just disaprove of the lifestyle of some of them
 
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fix:
It is interesting since the Vatican says this:

** MODIFICATIONS
from the Edito Typica** INTRODUCTION

On September 8, 1997, Pope John Paul II formally promulgated the editio typica (the definitive Latin language edition) of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The next day the modifications to the original editions, published in the various modem languages, were made public. The modifications are intended to bring the texts of the modem language editions into conformity with the Latin text. This booklet contains the modifications to the English language text published in the United States in 1994 in trade editions and in 1995 in mass market editions. The numbers in bold preceding each of the modifications correspond to paragraph numbers in the original editions of the Catechism.

2358 The second sentence of this paragraph is to be changed to read as follows: This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial.
scborromeo.org/ccc/updates.htm
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Wow, I just checked it out again. The English and Latin versions have the changes (on point 2358), but the Spanish version and the English version that shows the links to concordance don’t. I really appreciate you noticing this and pointing it out. I usually don’t use the Catechism with all the links to concordance visible anyways, ( I was just following the links on someone else’s post in this case) but its good to know, especially since the Spanish version turned out to be missing the changes too. I’m gonna see if I can find somewhere to email on the Vatican site to ask about this. 1997 was the last time changes were made that I know of.
 
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dulcissima:
Who is this generation who bore these openly homosexual children?

Well, let’s see, my grandparents, both were both devout Christians who were firm but loving. They were not afraid to call a spade a spade. They raised seven children despite the financial hardships involved with doing that during the dustbowl era of Oklahoma. They never stopped trusting that God would provide. They sacrificed and did whatever it would take to make sure that all of their children would have college educations and opportunities that were not available to them.

Who is this generation of people that say that we should include openly homosexual couples to tender family gatherings? Well, I guess that would be the surviving sibilings, mostly now in their 60’s, who after losing one brother (my father) to an airplane accident, have some compassion for their other brother who is a disabled veteran who has tried and failed at marriage, and who came to the conclusion that he was gay after many years of struggle and therapy. At no time have they ever condoned his lifestyle. In fact they have very frequently told him that they do not approve and why. Just as frequently though, they have told him that he is their brother and they will always love him and be there for him.
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I suppose every situation is different.
If your children are very young ( under 18 -20 ) and the ‘uncles’ or ‘aunts’ are the same age as ‘mom’ and ‘dad’ the situation is quite a bit more sensitive. My :twocents:

Your uncle sounds like a lost, crotchety, old man trying to find himself not assert his homosexual/gay lifestyle on any one in particular.

Some - not all - are trying to make a statement or impact on heterosexual families. It is not always easy to discern who is trying to push the homosexual agenda and who is desperately struggling to change but most of the time I would think it is pretty obvious.

Look at those addicted to sex. Don’t they usually try to hide it?
But then on the other hand there are XXX movie and magazine makers who push it. They don’t hide.

If you are wearing your homosexuality on the arm of a lover at a family gathering you are pushing your homosexual/gay agenda.My :twocents:
 
if you love your husbands brother,you must embrase him, and be glad for him, Truly he is only following his natural emotions. Is he not a creation of God, and is not the creations of God perfect, he is a child of God, and since God created him this way, what evil can there be; but only in the minds of evil people. in aur belief that we are right, we tend to destroy all that , which we do not understand. Have compassion.

How would react if you discovered one day that your son was Homsexual.
 
Invite the relative, without the “friend”. If he “will not come w/o his partner”- you win. If he comes alone- you win.

If you do not accept the posaibility of a relationship between them, then this would be more than inviting someone to come with a spouse, or even a date. As long as no one else is allowed to bring a friend, your in the clear.
 
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michele2:
if you love your husbands brother,you must embrase him, and be glad for him, Truly he is only following his natural emotions. Is he not a creation of God, and is not the creations of God perfect, he is a child of God, and since God created him this way, what evil can there be; but only in the minds of evil people. in aur belief that we are right, we tend to destroy all that , which we do not understand. Have compassion.

How would react if you discovered one day that your son was Homsexual.
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If uncle is a homicidal – God made him that way….come to the family reunion….the gun cabinet is in the den……here are the keys.
http://photobucket.com/albums/y188/ginnyroc/th_anger.jpg

If Aunt is a glutton weighing in at 400 pounds - God made her that way….come to the family reunion……the whole cake and ½ gallon of ice-cream is ALL yours
.
http://photobucket.com/albums/y188/ginnyroc/th_gluttony.jpg

If Uncle is proud – God made him that way…come to the family reunion….he can have the captain’s chair at the dining room table….kick the father of his home out into the kitchen.

http://photobucket.com/albums/y188/ginnyroc/th_pride.jpg
 
If Aunt is envious and greedy – God made her that way…come to the family reunion…sign over the title of your home to her.

http://photobucket.com/albums/y188/...bucket.com/albums/y188/ginnyroc/th_greeed.jpg

If Uncle is lazy……God made him that way….come to the family reunion……wait on him hand and foot.
http://photobucket.com/albums/y188/ginnyroc/th_sloth.jpg

If Uncle is lustful and brings his male lover or female out-of-wedlock lover……God made him that way….come to the family union and spread your lust
http://photobucket.com/albums/y188/ginnyroc/th_lust.jpg
 
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contemplative:
I suppose every situation is different.
If your children are very young ( under 18 -20 ) and the ‘uncles’ or ‘aunts’ are the same age as ‘mom’ and ‘dad’ the situation is quite a bit more sensitive. My :twocents:

Your uncle sounds like a lost, crotchety, old man trying to find himself not assert his homosexual/gay lifestyle on any one in particular.

Some - not all - are trying to make a statement or impact on heterosexual families. It is not always easy to discern who is trying to push the homosexual agenda and who is desperately struggling to change but most of the time I would think it is pretty obvious.

Look at those addicted to sex. Don’t they usually try to hide it?
But then on the other hand there are XXX movie and magazine makers who push it. They don’t hide.

If you are wearing your homosexuality on the arm of a lover at a family gathering you are pushing your homosexual/gay agenda.My :twocents:
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Yeah, he pretty much is old and crotchety, not a very appealing role model. I know that he would know better than to come across with a gay agenda, because everyone would come down on him like a ton of bricks, no question about it. I do think though it is important not to cut him off, because then he would be entirely dependent on the gay community. I just hope that over time, his family will be a good influence on him.
 
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contemplative:
If you are wearing your homosexuality on the arm of a lover at a family gathering you are pushing your homosexual/gay agenda.My :twocents:
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I agree with this post. In the Scriptures, Jesus was not afraid to call a spade a spade. “You hypocrites! You sinners!” But did he swear not to have anything to do with them? The sinful woman he did not condemn to death, he just told her “Don’t sin anymore!” I believe you would be doing the right thing by this man to maintain contact with HIM, invite HIM to family dinners, don’t allow HIM to go lonely, make sure HE is kept in contact. Simply explain that you are not willing to make a show of acceptance of homosexuality to your children, by inviting into your home his homosexual lover.

You do not owe this society or culture anything. Don’t worry about “hurting some feelings” by not inviting his homosexual lover into the sanctity of your own home.

I ponder the early ages of the Church, the MARTYRS, who gave their LIVES by professing belief in Jesus and His Holy Church. When the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on earth?
 
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michele2:
if you love your husbands brother,you must embrase him, and be glad for him, Truly he is only following his natural emotions. Is he not a creation of God, and is not the creations of God perfect, he is a child of God, and since God created him this way, what evil can there be; but only in the minds of evil people. in aur belief that we are right, we tend to destroy all that , which we do not understand. Have compassion.

How would react if you discovered one day that your son was Homsexual.
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Good point. And WWJD? Did He not hang around prostitutes, tax collectors, lepers and sinners?
 
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