How to trust priests post: crisis revelations

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Nichole said:
where do you think all that money is going? To your local churches light bill?
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Actually, yes, a lot of the money IS going to my parish’s light bill. There are “special collections” for maintenance, utilities, building repairs, particular parish programs, and all kinds of things. There are also diocesan appeals for various specific causes.

Many, though not all, parishes are transparent as much as they can be about where donations are going nowadays. They have to be in order to encourage bigger donations.

I rarely or never make a donation to a diocesan general fund. I have no idea what they are doing with it. I’m not concerned about seminaries specifically, but there are other programs in my dioceses that I think are of dubious value.
 
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You mean they have to be to pay to cover up the sex abuse scandals. Which is something I refuse to do by the way. I dont want people to confuse me with one of those church going pew sitting people that thinks its ok to move someone to another parish or country.
 
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gracepoole said:
Yet even these men most likely knew about the debauchery occurring in seminaries if what I’ve read is correct.
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A few things to consider.
  1. “if what I’ve read is correct.” I agree that many of the articles don’t paint a good picture, but we still aren’t necessarily getting the full picture.
  2. "these men most likely knew " I wouldn’t assume this to be true. I think back to when I was in high school or college. Did I know everything that was going on in my school? Not even close. Maybe I would hear rumors from someone about something this person or that person did. But even then, I wouldn’t necessarily know what to believe. I generally shrug off gossip and hearsay. So I imagine that these seminarians, even if they heard some rumblings, such information probably came in bits and pieces, and it easily could have come across as too fanciful to believe. And many other seminarians might have simply been oblivious. If some guys are doing shady things, they’re probably not going to bring into the loop guys that they know are on the straight and narrow.
  3. “in seminaries.” There are a good number of seminaries in the country. Even if the worst is true about some of them, that doesn’t mean they are all or even mostly bad. I know my diocese does not send anyone to any of the seminaries that have been in the news this past month. So I wouldn’t necessarily expect them to know what was going on in other seminaries.
 
As I understand it, a lot of the money does go to the parish, yes. Some gets kicked up to the diocese, and a small amount to Rome.
 
I trust priests completely until/unless they give me a reason not to. I think it was St. Thomas Aquinas who said that we should only judge well of someone until they’ve given us reason not to.
 
Usagi said:
As I understand it, a lot of the money does go to the parish, yes. Some gets kicked up to the diocese, and a small amount to Rome.
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A large amount of a parish’s collections go to diocesan assessments (I can’t remember the percentage in our diocese, maybe someone else has that number). It’s a fact of life in a hierarchical institution. That’s not a bad thing per se, but when it’s fuels and provides cover for abuses, it needs to be stopped. We are not contributing to the diocesan campaign and we are cutting our parochial contributions.
There are many needs in the world.
 
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I judge everyone starting at 0. Then you either ascend into my esteem or descend into my contempt.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
I think you have been deceived by the American Media.

It’s generally well known that National Media Outlets are frauds.
 
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gracepoole said:
I know good priests – honorable men whom I trust with my confessions and salvation. Yet even these men most likely knew about the debauchery occurring in seminaries if what I’ve read is correct.
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You do not know this.

There is also the issue of rumour and gossip. To hear rumours about some things (or some people) is not the same as knowing about things happening. And how do you know they did not express their concerns to their superiors about certain rumours they heard? Would it be the seminarians’ fault if nothing was subsequently done?

We should not hold good, faithful, holy priests accountable for the evil carried out by some of their peers, or for the failure of some of their superiors to act. That wouldn’t be fair.
 
gracepoole said:
But I also don’t know how to trust priests fully anymore. If they knew what was happening and didn’t or couldn’t come forward,
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I don’t anyone you don’t know really well can be totally trustworthy.

But now you know what you know, and you can just keep an eye one them as a lot of people will be doing. A lot of debauchery happened because people weren’t looking out for it. Now, they’ve been alerted, people will take precautions.

Its like at the airport, they check your shoes, at least on your initial trip to the airport. They let me slide right past on the return trips. They knew me. Same with this, just keep your eyes peeled- at least initially- for any shenanigans.
 
Bon_Croix said:
I think you have been deceived by the American Media.

It’s generally well known that National Media Outlets are frauds.
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If this is a response to my posts, I’m speaking of information I gained by reading the testimonies of priests. Priests. Not the scary “MSM.”
 
Brendan_64 said:
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gracepoole:
I know good priests – honorable men whom I trust with my confessions and salvation. Yet even these men most likely knew about the debauchery occurring in seminaries if what I’ve read is correct.
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You do not know this.

There is also the issue of rumour and gossip. To hear rumours about some things (or some people) is not the same as knowing about things happening. And how do you know they did not express their concerns to their superiors about certain rumours they heard? Would it be the seminarians’ fault if nothing was subsequently done?

We should not hold good, faithful, holy priests accountable for the evil carried out by some of their peers, or for the failure of some of their superiors to act. That wouldn’t be fair.
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So what about priests like Fr. Frank Fusare, who said this:
I can make these claims with 100% certainty - 100% - because I’ve not only read about this issue but for years I’ve heard with my own ears what militant, active homosexuals have to say by viewing their rallies and listening to their speeches and because I was forced to attend a seminary that protected militant homosexuals .

Now let me stop for a second and tell you that before I was a member of the Fathers of Mercy I was a priest in a diocese in this country, so the Fathers of Mercy did not send me to this awful seminary, it was the diocese that I was from originally .
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Is this rumor and gossip?
 
gracepoole said:
Is this rumor and gossip?
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I’m not saying that it is, but you cannot then extrapolate things onto all (or most) priests and accuse them of actively turning a blind eye. And what if a priest did report things to his superiors and his superiors failed to act (or even turned it against him) is that the seminarian’s fault?
 
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goout said:
A large amount of a parish’s collections go to diocesan assessments (I can’t remember the percentage in our diocese, maybe someone else has that number).
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This depends on the specific diocese. Special collections are often excluded as well. You can’t make a blanket statement for all parishes in the world.

Edited to add, here is a post from 1ke from the last time this subject came up…spot on to the discussion. So basically if you want to hold back your donation, you’re probably hurting your own parish the most.
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Where does the Mass monetary offertory goes? Liturgy and Sacraments
No that is not true. The money collected in the offertory is used to support the day to day operation and needs of the parish-- heat, air, salary of staff, sacramental and liturgical supplies, repairs, etc. In addition, there are special collections that go to various missions and needs of the wider church. Those are designated collections. Third, most dioceses have an annual bishop’s appeal. Each parish has a target, and people are asked to donate specifically to that fund. If the target…
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Tis_Bearself said:
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goout:
A large amount of a parish’s collections go to diocesan assessments (I can’t remember the percentage in our diocese, maybe someone else has that number).
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This depends on the specific diocese. Special collections are often excluded as well. You can’t make a blanket statement for all parishes in the world.

Edited to add, here is a post from 1ke from the last time this subject came up…spot on to the discussion. So basically if you want to hold back your donation, you’re probably hurting your own parish the most.

Where does the Mass monetary offertory goes? - #10 by 1ke
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The fact is:
In our diocese, the parish collections are assessed as a percentage. It is a substantial amount of money that is assessed.
In addition to that we have a diocesan appeal. These do support many good programs, and at the same time our diocese has had some notorious abusers that I will not mention. Lots of them. Payouts have been made. This is irresponsible.

In the face of rampant corruption in diocesan leadership, it is perfectly appropriate to support the body of Christ and the needs of the community at large in other ways.
No one is coerced to support irresponsible leadership.
 
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Yes, it’s a percentage. And when, as 1ke notes, it’s a percentage of 10 percent or less, that means you’re depriving your own parish of 90 percent of the money just to spite the diocese out of the 10 percent.

But as I said - since so many people give little or nothing to their church anyway, this may be pretty negligible. I’m sure there’s also people who are only too happy to have a big self-righteous reason to justify not giving any money to their parish.
 
I would call it an ethical reason not to support my parish. Until they stop pretending I wasn’t raped by a priest and blaming me for it, they aren’t getting my money.
 
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