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Veritas41
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good post:thumbsup:
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mary_bobo
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Catholig
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So you don’t support any amendments to protect marriage?
As for your other comments well I disagree but somehow I don’t think it’ll do much good to present my opinion.
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Pete99
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I never said I didn’t support the protection of marriage.
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Catholig
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But you did say that the republic party is homophobic, so what did you mean? I’ve never heard any one say we should attack gays, only that we shouldn’t allow them and flaunt their lifestyle, because it is immoral. They aren’t advocating bodily harm, are they? What else does homophobic mean?
Catholig
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Pete99
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First,
Yes, I did say that the republican party is homophobic. Perhaps I should not have made a sweeping generalization based on local experience. I apologize. What I should have said was, “My experience with Republicans in my state is that they are homophobic”.
I’ve never heard any one say we should attack gays, only that we shouldn’t allow them and flaunt their lifestyle, because it is immoral.
Yes, I will admit that I have yet to hear a republican elected official tell people to go out and beat up homosexuals (although I have heard a few come close). However, if we are going to start passing laws against homosexuals, then I would view that as an attack. The issue here is our “Catholic” view of chastity. Are we also going to pass and enforce laws against unmarried men and women living together? How about high school and college kids having sex outside of marriage? Masturbation? Lust? These are all “chastity” or “moral” issues.
Furthermore, I am very uncomfortable with a government legislating a definition of marriage. A government that has the power to do that could also some day say that all churches must offer marriage ceremonies for homosexuals. I think marriage should be taken out of government altogether. In the eyes of the law, all “married couples” should have a domestic partnership for legal benefits, etc. If you want to be “married” then go to your place of worship and have your priest, pastor, rabbi, or whatever, perform your ceremony of preference. Marriage means different things to many different people. To us Catholics, it is a sacrament, limited to this earth. For mormons it is a ceremony that has eternal implications. Other faith traditions have different definitions as well. It is not the Govt.'s job to try and make them all fit into one pot.
Finally, it is not our job as Christians to encourage legislation that discriminates against a group of people even if we don’t agree with them. I describe myself as a “Pro-life Liberal”. I think the Govt. should leave people alone (this includes the bedroom of two consenting adults) unless people are being killed (i.e. abortion, embryonic stem cell research, war, capital punishment etc). I know the phrase “Pro-life Liberal” may sound strange to some, but, well, this is a strange world.
Yes, I did say that the republican party is homophobic. Perhaps I should not have made a sweeping generalization based on local experience. I apologize. What I should have said was, “My experience with Republicans in my state is that they are homophobic”.
I’ve never heard any one say we should attack gays, only that we shouldn’t allow them and flaunt their lifestyle, because it is immoral.
Yes, I will admit that I have yet to hear a republican elected official tell people to go out and beat up homosexuals (although I have heard a few come close). However, if we are going to start passing laws against homosexuals, then I would view that as an attack. The issue here is our “Catholic” view of chastity. Are we also going to pass and enforce laws against unmarried men and women living together? How about high school and college kids having sex outside of marriage? Masturbation? Lust? These are all “chastity” or “moral” issues.
Furthermore, I am very uncomfortable with a government legislating a definition of marriage. A government that has the power to do that could also some day say that all churches must offer marriage ceremonies for homosexuals. I think marriage should be taken out of government altogether. In the eyes of the law, all “married couples” should have a domestic partnership for legal benefits, etc. If you want to be “married” then go to your place of worship and have your priest, pastor, rabbi, or whatever, perform your ceremony of preference. Marriage means different things to many different people. To us Catholics, it is a sacrament, limited to this earth. For mormons it is a ceremony that has eternal implications. Other faith traditions have different definitions as well. It is not the Govt.'s job to try and make them all fit into one pot.
Finally, it is not our job as Christians to encourage legislation that discriminates against a group of people even if we don’t agree with them. I describe myself as a “Pro-life Liberal”. I think the Govt. should leave people alone (this includes the bedroom of two consenting adults) unless people are being killed (i.e. abortion, embryonic stem cell research, war, capital punishment etc). I know the phrase “Pro-life Liberal” may sound strange to some, but, well, this is a strange world.
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gtooke
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aspawloski4th
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tisk tisk tisk, lots of what you have mentioned is unconstitutional, the illegals coming here should be sent back because they are breaking the law, they are taking jobs away from americans and driving wages down, also a new problem has cropped up that Im experiencing in my job search, the requiement for some jobs to be bilingual, like a car parts counter job! no one learned german, polish, or gealic for my ancestors , im not learning spanish for anyone. all that aside. those are negotiable issues, abortion isnt. voting when you are CATHOLIC is very simple, you get out your right to life paper ith who they are endorsing and vote acordingly. very simple easy to do. and if every Catholic did that like they are supposed to do, abortion in america would end in a heart beat.
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aspawloski4th
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so whats wrong with homophobia? my wife has arrachnephobia and no one makes a big deal out of it, I have toxiphobia no one makes a big deal out of it. get a grip.
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aspawloski4th
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the real reason we still have abortion is that its very hard to get a prolife majority in the senate. in the senate a good amount 0f the republicans are from eastern liberal eastlishment states where both partys are proabortion as well as liberal , ie susan collins, olympia snow from maine ,lincoln chafee. we need republicans from states where it means something to be republican ,ie the south or most of mid america.
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Traditional_Ang
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Catholiq:
President Bush has appointed 2 Pro-Life Justices, but to overturn Roe v. Wade, we need a 3rd, and with the Democrats in control of the Senate, that 3rd Justice won’t make it through. On top of that, he had a hard time with many of his other judicial appointments because: 2001-2002 the Democrats had a slim Majority in the Senate and would block Judicial Appointments at will in spite of the promises they made; and 2002-2006, the Republicans refused to use their majority to force the President’s appointment’s through the Senate, often acting as if they were in the minority.
And, Then we have State such as California which has twice refused to pass the most basic of controls on Abortion, that of “Parental Consent for Minors”. It didn’t help that Cardinal Mahony was silent in both elections, along with most of the Catholic Bishops and Archbishops in this state. I can’t help wondering what would have happened in either of those elections if all of the Archbishops and Bishops in this state that I live in would have been made repeated public statements in support of “Parental Consent for Minors”.
We may be trying to solve a SPIRITUAL PROBLEM by PHYSICAL MEANS. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do Political Action, but that means that Political Action will only get us so far - That we also have to also do Spiritual Activity as well (Masses, Rosaries, other prayers & Bible Reading).
That said, I believe that not only do we need a President who is Pro-Life to nominate Justices and Judges who will strike down Roe v. Wade, we need a Senate that is dominated by Pro-Lifers who will confirm them. And, We need to consider getting enough Pro-Lifers in the House and Senate to pass a Pro-Life Amendment to the Constitution so that states such as California can’t continue murdering babies. An Amendment to the Constitution will require 37 States for Ratification.
To get all of the above will require continued methodical effort and education. People who are undecided or who think they have “No Right to legislate Morallity” have to be shown WHAT ABORTION REALLY IS. That’s not going to be pretty, because Abortion is REALLY UGLY.
Your Brother in Christ, Michael
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Traditional_Ang
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Coop 73:
Whose job is it to take care of the poor and the needy? UNBELIEVERS? or, The Church?
If you read the Scriptures, and the Didache, it pretty much said who are responsible to take care of elderly and poor BELIEVERS. So why do we send them to the GOVERNMENT? Why are we making UNBELIEVERS do OUR JOB? Why is it up to the POLITICIANS to solve our problems?
How many extra bedrooms do Catholics have in their homes that go unused? How many extra apartments for rent? How many empty seminaries are we getting ready to close? How many Catholics throw a couple of dollars in the plate at Mass when a TITHE would easily be $50-100/week?
Charity is our job - We shouldn’t palm it of on unbelievers, policians or the government.
Your Brother in Christ, Michael
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Pete99
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aspawloski4th,
I never said abortion is a negotiable issue. I agree that it is non negotiable. I am speaking this weekend at our local Right to LIfe rally and I am calling on all voters to pray that Roe v. Wade would someday be overturned. However, if/when that happens, abortions will not end. For abortions to end, we as a the Body of Christ are going to have to start offering real alternatives to women seeking abortions as well as encourage legislation that offers alternatives. This includes but is not limited to major adoption reform, affordable medical care, increased programs for low income families and single mothers, and in many cases, it may just mean making our homes available to a single pregnant mother if she needs it. Just because something is illegal in society doesn’t mean it will end.
As far as illegals go, I believe that we as Catholics have to answer to a higher authority than the laws of the United States. I’m not saying we should go around disregarding the law, but remember that Catholic Social teachings says that we are one human family. I don’t believe for a minute that people in this country who came here to make a better life for themselves and are doing so, should be “sent away”. Our immigration system is in need of serious reform. I work in a Parish that is over half hispanic. Some people I know have been trying to become citizens for 10 years. This is ridiculous. These families are my friends and fellow Catholics. I am even a God Parent to a teenager from one of these families. They are responsible, hard working, devout Catholics whom I care about deeply.
Traditional Ang,
I agree with you. We as believers need to step up. That is the main theme of my speech this weekend. I would love to email you a copy. I think you would love it based on your comments.If believers everywhere would do their part to take care of eachother and those around us, then by doing so we could cause abortions to drop faster than anything the govt. could do.
I never said abortion is a negotiable issue. I agree that it is non negotiable. I am speaking this weekend at our local Right to LIfe rally and I am calling on all voters to pray that Roe v. Wade would someday be overturned. However, if/when that happens, abortions will not end. For abortions to end, we as a the Body of Christ are going to have to start offering real alternatives to women seeking abortions as well as encourage legislation that offers alternatives. This includes but is not limited to major adoption reform, affordable medical care, increased programs for low income families and single mothers, and in many cases, it may just mean making our homes available to a single pregnant mother if she needs it. Just because something is illegal in society doesn’t mean it will end.
As far as illegals go, I believe that we as Catholics have to answer to a higher authority than the laws of the United States. I’m not saying we should go around disregarding the law, but remember that Catholic Social teachings says that we are one human family. I don’t believe for a minute that people in this country who came here to make a better life for themselves and are doing so, should be “sent away”. Our immigration system is in need of serious reform. I work in a Parish that is over half hispanic. Some people I know have been trying to become citizens for 10 years. This is ridiculous. These families are my friends and fellow Catholics. I am even a God Parent to a teenager from one of these families. They are responsible, hard working, devout Catholics whom I care about deeply.
Traditional Ang,
I agree with you. We as believers need to step up. That is the main theme of my speech this weekend. I would love to email you a copy. I think you would love it based on your comments.If believers everywhere would do their part to take care of eachother and those around us, then by doing so we could cause abortions to drop faster than anything the govt. could do.
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mlchance
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How amusing. Sure, the Democratic Party supports the wholesale, unrestricted slaughter of the unborn, but, hey!, they’re really generous with other people’s money in order to keep the poor on the dole. Plus, Republicans are just so darned mean!
Humans aren’t just a rational animal. We’re also a rationalizing animal.
– Mark L. Chance.
Humans aren’t just a rational animal. We’re also a rationalizing animal.
– Mark L. Chance.
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fix
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You lump too much together. First, this country has had laws against things like adultery up to very recent times. We certianly had laws against sodomy until very very recently.
Not everything that is immoral can or should be made illegal, but that is no argument to abolish laws that would make homosexual acts illegal, but that is a new thread.
I cannot disagree more. Marriage is a natural institution that predates the state. No matter how confused and poorly formed people’s consciences are today it is no reason to manipulate the institution of marriage to serve some neo pagan ideal. Society has an interest in keeping marriage as it is.
Actually, it is our job:
There is nothing pro life about encouraging the culture of death. The homosexual agenda is contrary to the good of society.
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Pete99
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mlchance,
Were your comments directed at me? If so, I think you are a little confused. Nowhere in any of my posts did I say that I vote for pro-death democrats or did I condone the pro-choice stance of Democrat politicians. I did make one generalization about Republicans which I apologized for. As a Catholic and a member of Democrats for life, I support pro life democrats first, and then I tend to vote independent (as I stated in an earlier post). I guess, if your post was directed at me, I’m just a little confused as to your point.
Were your comments directed at me? If so, I think you are a little confused. Nowhere in any of my posts did I say that I vote for pro-death democrats or did I condone the pro-choice stance of Democrat politicians. I did make one generalization about Republicans which I apologized for. As a Catholic and a member of Democrats for life, I support pro life democrats first, and then I tend to vote independent (as I stated in an earlier post). I guess, if your post was directed at me, I’m just a little confused as to your point.
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mlchance
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Pete99
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mlchance,
No. I apologize for assuming.
My mistake.
No. I apologize for assuming.
My mistake.
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mlchance
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