How was Adam able to be "tempted"?

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The RCC teaches that man, unaided by God’s grace, will not choose God. At this point, RCC teaching and reformed teaching on total depravity are in agreement.
So, I don’t see how one can say Calvin had a warped view of humanity on the one hand and then accept RCC doctrine on original sin on the other.
the catholic magisterium does not teach that “unaided by God’s grace, will not choose God.” that is another calvinist misrepresentation of what the catholic church actually teaches.

calvin had a warped view because his starting point is warped. calvin does not believe in the goodness of man, while god does. calvin takes an evil position that man is evil, that the world is evil, that all of creation is evil. calvin has an evil mind. everything calvin sees is evil. there is nothing good in his worldview. which is a direct contrast to how god sees the world and mankind.

the catholic church does not teach that mankind is totally depraved. that is what calvin believes.
god does not think ALL of mankind is TOTALLY depraved. and god does not see sin where there isn’t any.
 
the catholic magisterium does not teach that “unaided by God’s grace, will not choose God.” that is another calvinist misrepresentation of what the catholic church actually teaches.

calvin had a warped view because his starting point is warped. calvin does not believe in the goodness of man, while god does. calvin takes an evil position that man is evil, that the world is evil, that all of creation is evil. calvin has an evil mind. everything calvin sees is evil. there is nothing good in his worldview. which is a direct contrast to how god sees the world and mankind.

the catholic church does not teach that mankind is totally depraved. that is what calvin believes.
god does not think ALL of mankind is TOTALLY depraved. and god does not see sin where there isn’t any.
So your church teaches that man in a fallen state can choose God without God’s grace? Are you sure about that? Would you like to clarify your point?
 
the catholic magisterium does not teach that “unaided by God’s grace, will not choose God.” that is another calvinist misrepresentation of what the catholic church actually teaches.
From the Council of Trent
6th Session
(concerns justification)
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Trent:
CHAPTER V
THE NECESSITY OF PREPARATION FOR JUSTIFICATION IN ADULTS, AND WHENCE IT PROCEEDS

It is furthermore declared that in adults the beginning of that justification must proceed from the predisposing grace of God through Jesus Christ, that is, from His vocation, whereby, without any merits on their part, they are called; that they who by sin had been cut off from God, may be disposed through His quickening and helping grace to convert themselves to their own justification by freely assenting to and cooperating with that grace; so that, while God touches the heart of man through the illumination of the Holy Ghost, man himself neither does absolutely nothing while receiving that inspiration, since he can also reject it, nor yet is he able by his own free will and without the grace of God to move himself to justice in His sight.

Hence, when it is said in the sacred writings:
Turn ye to me, and I will turn to you,[19] we are reminded of our liberty; and when we reply:
Convert us, O Lord, to thee, and we shall be converted,[20] we confess that we need the grace of God.

CHAPTER VI
THE MANNER OF PREPARATION

Now, they [the adults] are disposed to that justice when, aroused and aided by divine grace, receiving faith by hearing,[21] they are moved freely toward God, believing to be true what has been divinely revealed and promised, especially that the sinner is justified by God by his grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus;[22] and when, understanding themselves to be sinners, they, by turning themselves from the fear of divine justice, by which they are salutarily aroused, to consider the mercy of God, are raised to hope, trusting that God will be propitious to them for Christ’s sake; and they begin to love Him as the fountain of all justice, and on that account are moved against sin by a certain hatred and detestation, that is, by that repentance that must be performed before baptism;[23] finally, when they resolve to receive baptism, to begin a new life and to keep the commandments of God.

Of this disposition it is written:
He that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him;[24] and, Be of good faith, son, thy sins are forgiven thee;[25] and, The fear of the Lord driveth out sin;[26] and, Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost;[27] and, Going, therefore, teach ye all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you;[28] finally, Prepare your hearts unto the Lord.[29]

What do the above paragraphs mean to you? Is there anywhere in there that says that unregenerate man can choose God all by their lonesome? Would that even make sense given the vast amount of scriptural evidence to the contrary?
 
Were there pagans in Europe in the 16th century? Did he travel to places where there were?

I would presume there weren’t any in Switzerland.
Sheeesh…

From Merriam Webster

pagan
2 entries found.

paganneo-pagan

Main Entry: pa·gan
Pronunciation: \ˈpā-gən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin paganus, from Latin, civilian, country dweller, from pagus country district; akin to Latin pangere to fix — more at pact
Date: 14th century
1: heathen 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
2: one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person

I would imagine there are many pagans in Switzerland, my church, your church, USA, Europe, etc.
 
I would imagine there are many pagans in Switzerland, my church, your church, USA, Europe, etc.
There are no pagans in the Catholic Church.

You brought up Calvin and pagans for some reason.

I presume that when Christ went down to the dead, there were some number of righteous pagans among them.

Dante certainly believed so.

So your point was?
 
Calvinator, I think the problem is that there are two arguments from two different points.

Someone can choose to be a good person simply because they see the good in people. Look at some of the Pagan Greeks who tried to live a good and wholesome life, for example.

You seem to be arguing that only God can give us the Grace that leads us to Justification. No one is arguing that point.
 
From the Council of Trent
6th Session
(concerns justification)

What do the above paragraphs mean to you? Is there anywhere in there that says that unregenerate man can choose God all by their lonesome? Would that even make sense given the vast amount of scriptural evidence to the contrary?
Does it say that Man is a slave?
 
Calvinator, I think the problem is that there are two arguments from two different points.

Someone can choose to be a good person simply because they see the good in people. Look at some of the Pagan Greeks who tried to live a good and wholesome life, for example.

You seem to be arguing that only God can give us the Grace that leads us to Justification. No one is arguing that point.
I’m not even sure what point it is we’re SUPPOSED to be arguing any longer.

Q. How was Adam able to be tempted?
A. Adam possessed free will.

Calvinator, do you disagree with this?
 
I’m not even sure what point it is we’re SUPPOSED to be arguing any longer.

Q. How was Adam able to be tempted?
A. Adam possessed free will.

Calvinator, do you disagree with this?
Exactly. Scriptures says that Jesus was tempted and Jesus did not have original sin.
 
Exactly. Scriptures says that Jesus was tempted and Jesus did not have original sin.
That is an EXCELLENT point—the temptation in the desert.

I’ve always loved that account because a) it had to have originated with Christ himself and b) it amply demonstrates the folly of relying on Scripture alone, as the Devil quotes it for evil purposes.

It also underscores that Christ was fully human as well as fully divine. He was tempted. He could have chosen to follow that temptation. He did not.

Free will and sanctifying grace amply displayed.
 
So your church teaches that man in a fallen state can choose God without God’s grace? Are you sure about that? Would you like to clarify your point?
yes man can choose god even when he is in a fallen state.

man can do good even when he is in a fallen state. even if he doesn’t believe in god he can do what is good.
 
Anyway, he asked an interesting question which I told him I would ask for help in answering. It was along the lines of…How was Adam able to be tempted in the first place if he didnt suffer from the effects of original sin?
It’s all Eve’s fault,of course.

Ladies,do you have to eat everything?
 
yes man can choose god even when he is in a fallen state.

man can do good even when he is in a fallen state. even if he doesn’t believe in god he can do what is good.
No, man can not choose God without God’s grace.
 
God gave Adam free will. Angels in heaven were even able to reject God and follow Lucifer.
 
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