St. Thomas Aquinas, S.T. I, Q63:
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1063.htm#article3I answer that, Without doubt the angel sinned by seeking to be as God. But this can be understood in two ways: first, by equality; secondly, by likeness. He could not seek to be as God in the first way; …
To desire to be as God according to likeness can happen in two ways. In one way, as to that likeness whereby everything is made to be likened unto God. And so, if anyone desire in this way to be Godlike, he commits no sin; provided that he desires such likeness in proper order, that is to say, that he may obtain it of God. But he would sin were he to desire to be like unto God even in the right way, as of his own, and not of God’s power. In another way one may desire to be like unto God in some respect which is not natural to one; as if one were to desire to create heaven and earth, which is proper to God; in which desire there would be sin. It was in this way that the devil desired to be as God. Not that he desired to resemble God by being subject to no one else absolutely; for so he would be desiring his own ‘not-being’; since no creature can exist except by holding its existence under God. But he desired resemblance with God in this respect—by desiring, as his last end of beatitude, something which he could attain by the virtue of his own nature, turning his appetite away from supernatural beatitude, which is attained by God’s grace. Or, if he desired as his last end that likeness of God which is bestowed by grace, he sought to have it by the power of his own nature; and not from Divine assistance according to God’s ordering. This harmonizes with Anselm’s opinion, who says [De casu diaboli, iv.] that “he sought that to which he would have come had he stood fast.” These two views in a manner coincide; because according to both, he sought to have final beatitude of his own power, whereas this is proper to God alone.
Since, then, what exists of itself is the cause of what exists of another, it follows from this furthermore that he sought to have dominion over others; wherein he also perversely wished to be like unto God.
From this we have the answer to all the objections.
Yeah, when you brought up this issue a week or two ago in a separate thread, I did the relevant reading in Aquinas. I thought it was interesting that Aquinas kept alluding back to Augustine’s opinions on pride as being the worst of the sins in the sense that pride is always lurking behind all other sin (as if it’s in the shadows, just waiting to pop out).It’s just hard, because where is the desire stemming from? What makes one angel desire one thing, and another angel desire another? Unless we want to say God makes each angel such that he will either desire or reject God… But no one wants to go there, of course, since God doesn’t create evil.
So what made the devil fall, but not St. Michael? They were both pure spirits. Right?
The problem of evil is related to the fact that the creature are not created as God and they have high desire to be God since that is ultimate perfection. Hierarchy is the source of problem. There shall be peace if all beings are created and treated equally.All rational creatures, human and angels, are built for the good. “Our hearts are restless until they rest in God” (Augustine, paraphrase). Aquinas would say anyone who acts, acts for a perceived good. OK. So if the devil knew his true fulfillment was in God, why would he willingly choose to sin and receive eternal suffering in hell?
Seeking to escape from proper hierarchy is the problem. I have no problem with accepting that God is greater than I. If we accepted it, there wouldn’t be as many problems.Hierarchy is the source of problem. There shall be peace if all beings are created and treated equally.
You don’t have any problem, many others have. So the problem remains unresolved.I have no problem with accepting that God is greater than I.
I don’t think we can say that the angels have absolutely no ignorance, only that they do not lack knowledge that is proper to them. Each angel is given the knowledge that is proper to their individual nature, and this knowledge is obviously in the realm of created things and not proper Divine Knowledge. We can say that angels can be ignorant of things not proper to them, such as Michael not knowing what it is to be Gabriel, and we can say that angels lack Divine Knowledge without Divine Grace.The angels did not lack ignorance, nor did they have passions (being immaterial). This is standard Thomistic philosophical jargon.
So if the devil knew his true fulfillment was in God, why would he willingly choose to sin and receive eternal suffering in hell?
The following goes a little bit off topic, but it is hard to see how a creature so brilliant would care so much about the things we commonly associate with demonic evil – possession, temptation, etc. Like why does he care? Sometimes I think we anthropomorphize satan as much as we do God. Like, are we to think the demons suddenly changed 100% evil wanting to inflict harm on creation? That seems mythical… Why couldn’t there be a demon who just fell but remains apathetic or doesn’t care about the rest of creation? Why does it have to be a battle between “good and evil”??o what led Lucifer to choose himself over God? We aren’t privy to the exact details, but there are several possibilities. He could have seen his own creaturely perfection, being the closest created thing to God and seeing only with creaturely eyes, and determined that following his own way was equivalent to following God; indeed, his greatness lends itself to an erroneous perspective, even without passions. He could have seen the elevation of human kind and seen it as an affront to God, elevating a man over the highest angel may seem a kind of idolatry to his understanding. We really don’t know how it went down because we lack the perspective, information, and clarity of reason to really dig to the truth. It isn’t unreasonable to conclude, however, that there are multiple possible answers that are satisfactory based on out understanding of reality.
Just some thoughts.
Peace and God bless!
I don’t think this is off-topic at all. I think it’s an astute observation about the way we humans talk about angelic evil, and I think it might cut to the heart of some of your concerns.The following goes a little bit off topic, but it is hard to see how a creature so brilliant would care so much about the things we commonly associate with demonic evil – possession, temptation, etc. Like why does he care? Sometimes I think we anthropomorphize satan as much as we do God. Like, are we to think the demons suddenly changed 100% evil wanting to inflict harm on creation? That seems mythical… Why couldn’t there be a demon who just fell but remains apathetic or doesn’t care about the rest of creation? Why does it have to be a battle between “good and evil”??
The problem is that other people have a problem with it. If people would accept that not all are equal, and had from the beginning, then there would be to say the least, a significant improvement.You don’t have any problem, many others have. So the problem remains unresolved.
I’m not sure how the bishops could have said it any plainer. The growth in understanding is made by believers as the centuries roll on. Sure sounds like the church isn’t done with it’s development, right?This tradition which comes from the Apostles develop in the Church with the help of the Holy Spirit. (5) For there is a growth in the understanding of the realities and the words which have been handed down. This happens through the contemplation and study made by believers, who treasure these things in their hearts (see Luke, 2:19, 51) through a penetrating understanding of the spiritual realities which they experience, and through the preaching of those who have received through Episcopal succession the sure gift of truth. For as the centuries succeed one another, the Church constantly moves forward toward the fullness of divine truth until the words of God reach their complete fulfillment in her. [DV 8].
It’s questions like these that make me lean toward the East in all these matters. I think the West just doesn’t have enough adequate solutions to offer. (If Aquinas can’t solve it with all his genius, then who could?)So what made the devil fall, but not St. Michael?
Well, Jim, the council said “there is a growth in the understanding of the realities and the words which have been handed down…For as the centuries succeed one another, the Church constantly moves forward toward the fullness of divine truth…”But now it sounds as though we are somehow being presented with a doctrine of continuing revelation or continuing man-made additions to revelation.