How we view our own kids

[Rico_S]

So my daughter tells us a story about her cousin, (my wife’s sister’s kid), who goes to school with her. She said the cousin refused to do something that her grandparents asked…nothing crazy bad, but pretty in line with what we would expect from this kid. She is pretty rude, snotty and in general an unpleasant person–pretty much “it’s all about me” “everyone else sort of sucks so just leave me alone” attitude. Her attitude and behavior have been pretty consistent over the past 5 years…so it isn’t new–this is how she is. Now she isn’t a monster or anything, but she is just fairly rude and unpleasant to be around.

Anyway, my wife tells her sister of the incident in passing and her sister says,“Sally? I can’t imagine Sally would do that. Perhaps your daughter is mistaken? Sally wouldn’t do that.” My wife just chuckles and drops it and tells me about it later, and I am like, “Really??!! This surprises you!? This is exactly the type of behavior your daughter has exhibited for years and perfectly in line with what I would expect, but you think this is out of character?”

I don’t get it, is it so hard to look at our kids with any sort of objectivity.

You see it in sports too…with the parents that think their kid has great talent and the coach is not giving them a fair shake (when the reality is that the kid does not have great talent and the coach is spot on).

You see it in academics too.

I have to wonder, do I have this same lack of objectivity with my kids? I honestly do not believe so. I think I have a realistic view of their talents and behaviors. In fact, if I am biased, I think I am overly critical…at least that is the feedback I get from our friends. But I have to wonder…

So I ask you, is this the nature of parents? Is it just terribly difficult for us to be honest with ourselves that our kids might be poorly behaved, not so smart, below average athletically, socially maladjusted, etc?

 

[KellyPalmer]

I doubt you have an objective view of this “snotty” child that you don’t live with.

 

[Rico_S]

I doubt you have an objective view of this “snotty” child that you don’t live with.

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[Kal2012]

Sadly, I think it’s a reflection of modern society. A lot of people are selfish and don’t want to see anything wrong with their kid because they think it will reflect badly on them.

I don’t know if it’s a mom thing because I’ve noticed that a lot more moms aren’t objective when it comes to their kids, but dads tend to be more realistic about their kids. It always seems to be that it’s the mom who can’t believe that her son is going to prison for committing some violent crime and he just can’t be guilty…

Two examples:

My friend went shopping with her daughter on Black Friday and another girl bit her child. And the other parent didn’t do anything about it - just made excuses. When my friend told me about this, I flipped out because kids just shouldn’t go around biting other kids to get the toy that they want.

In our public school district, some kids decided that it would be a bright idea to break into one of middle schools and steal the computers in order to sell them. We live in a wealthy district and I was upset at the kids and ashamed for the parents. The parents were arguing that the kids shouldn’t be punished by the school district because the incident happened over the summer. Not on school time. The thing that set me off was that one of the parents was concerned that his kid wouldn’t get a soccer scholarship if the kid wasn’t able to play on the team. (I was kind of surprised that it was a dad, but the dad’s a lawyer…) My response to the whole thing was that my kid wouldn’t even be on the soccer team because I would have kicked him off the team, so it wouldn’t have been a deep personal tragedy that he missed one or two games. He would have missed the whole season! I really wouldn’t have cared too much about a soccer scholarship, given that the kid was breaking and entering and stealing school property.

I think that most people are able to be objective when it comes to their kid. I know I appreciate feedback when other adults see my kid not behaving well and I’m not around to see it. I think most parents are. It’s sad that ‘my kid is special’ has been translated into ‘my kid should be successful at everything they do and if they aren’t, then it’s someone’s fault.’

Anyway, my 2 cents.

 

[SamH]

Agreed.

It’s pretty much done a 180 from when I was growing up. My parents were under no illusion that their children were saints in training, and usually used other people’s perceptions of us as how we were viewed in general.

I know my older son is brutally honest to the point of rudeness (I have no idea where he gets it) and really needs to filter his responces while my younger son is a politician in training that will tell you exactly what you want to hear with such a sincere note, even if it has no relation to the truth or reality in general.

Recently I had a teacher tell me my older son was a liar that was faking his epilepsy symptoms (apparently to the point of making his EEG abnormal) I instantly knew who the stupidest person in the room was and treated her accordingly. She didn’t appreciate my honest evaluation of her teaching skills either. Had she said it was hard to motivate him and that he was easily distracted I would have agreed and then asked if she was reading from his IEP.

 

[Allegra]

Kids are human beings and they show different sides to different adults. There are tons of parents who can’t bring themselves to believe that their child would ever lie to them, despite the fact that the crime was caught on video and reproduced to the parent several times. On the other hand, I see plenty of parents that when I tell them their kid is doing well and is a pleasure to have in class they roll their eyes and give me a “just you wait” look. It’s also not uncommon for different teachers to have different impression of kids as well. Our impressions are formed based on what we observe and kid’s behavior is formed based on how they react to what is going on around them. Obviously, not all adults are going to form the same impression.

 

[Allegra]

Agreed.

It’s pretty much done a 180 from when I was growing up. My parents were under no illusion that their children were saints in training, and usually used other people’s perceptions of us as how we were viewed in general.

I know my older son is brutally honest to the point of rudeness (I have no idea where he gets it) and really needs to filter his responces while my younger son is a politician in training that will tell you exactly what you want to hear with such a sincere note, even if it has no relation to the truth or reality in general.

Recently I had a teacher tell me my older son was a liar that was faking his epilepsy symptoms (apparently to the point of making his EEG abnormal) I instantly knew who the stupidest person in the room was and treated her accordingly. She didn’t appreciate my honest evaluation of her teaching skills either. Had she said it was hard to motivate him and that he was easily distracted I would have agreed and then asked if she was reading from his IEP.

Not to derail the thread, but it certainly wouldn’t be unheard of for a child to really have a chronic illness, but fake symptoms flairing up once in a while in order to get out of something. I can’t tell you how many mid-quiz-asthma-attacks I’ve witnessed. Sometimes, they do it just because they want someone to notice them and tell them it’s going to be alright and everything is under control. (Especially little kids.)

 

[Rico_S]

I don’t know if it’s a mom thing because I’ve noticed that a lot more moms aren’t objective when it comes to their kids, but dads tend to be more realistic about their kids.

Although I can only speak from my very small experience, but I tend to agree there. It does seem that the moms show more lack of objectivity in assessing their children…but I would hate to extrapolate based on my small sample size

 

[90Domer]

From what I have seen with raising my own son (he is 10 and is on the autism spectrum), many parents think their child is gifted in one sense or the other, especially if the child is neurotypical. I think I learned early that my child wouldn’t be considered gifted in any aspect. My little guy proved me wrong, but we only found out after having him thoroughly tested by a neuropsychologist.

However, the vast majority of parents are quick to point out a strength of their child, if nothing else to prevent the child from feeling like a failure. And there’s the rub. I think we’re raising a generation of kids who don’t know how to overcome failure. They have been used to be praised for every small thing they do. And the lack of this skill does not bode well once life begins “in the real world.”

 

[Ophelia23]

We all think our kids are the best! But I feel it is so important to see and recognize both the strengths and weaknesses of our children. It does not serve our children any favors to turn a blind eye to their shortcomings, just as it doesn’t do any good to only point out their mistakes.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

I think that parents who are “not my kids” aren’t being realistic and enable their children. My mother never put anything past me. I am from a small town (graduated with 82 classmates) so gossip and rumors were rampant. My mom would ask me. She wouldn’t confront me screaming or yelling, but she did want to know. (It must be stated that I am probably the worst liar in the world.)

Now, being from a small town where most parent’s gossiped like they were in high school, there were a lot of “Not MY child” type parents. There was one girl who I was friends with from like, 3rd grade, until probably my Sophomore year. Her parent’s were the “not my child” parents.
She would steal alcohol from her parents and such. It was always the friend who was stay over who was to blame. She got caught with drugs on her and it was someone elses. She got pregnant our Senior year and it was everyone’s fault except hers.
Now, almost 6 years out of high school, her mother has custody of her child, she lives on her parent’s property, and she still partys her life away. Her parents still say “not my child.” I promise.

I used to teach at a private preschool and I had let a parent know that her child was being very aggressive with his classmates. The first thing out of this mother’s mouth was “not my child” and I had a flashback of the girl I just spoke about. Thankfully, we have cameras in the room and we were able to pull up every single time this little boy got in trouble. This lady told us (me and the director) that the other children had to have provoked her child. :tsktsk::banghead:

I think parents need to be more honest with themselves because it only hurts the child in the long run. Everyone has free will, even our precious little “angels” :angel1:

 

[FriendlyFace]

So I ask you, is this the nature of parents? Is it just terribly difficult for us to be honest with ourselves that our kids might be poorly behaved, not so smart, below average athletically, socially maladjusted, etc?

My mother was very strict when she caught me misbehaving and I think she was realistic about what my talents were and weren’t. Ditto my Dad really, though he was a tad less strict. I think that some parents are more indulgent then others. Both of my parents regarded correcting their children as part of their job as parents. I think they were in the right.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

So my daughter tells us a story about her cousin, (my wife’s sister’s kid), who goes to school with her. She said the cousin refused to do something that her grandparents asked…nothing crazy bad, but pretty in line with what we would expect from this kid. She is pretty rude, snotty and in general an unpleasant person–pretty much “it’s all about me” “everyone else sort of sucks so just leave me alone” attitude. Her attitude and behavior have been pretty consistent over the past 5 years…so it isn’t new–this is how she is. Now she isn’t a monster or anything, but she is just fairly rude and unpleasant to be around.

Anyway, my wife tells her sister of the incident in passing and her sister says,“Sally? I can’t imagine Sally would do that. Perhaps your daughter is mistaken? Sally wouldn’t do that.” My wife just chuckles and drops it and tells me about it later, and I am like, “Really??!! This surprises you!? This is exactly the type of behavior your daughter has exhibited for years and perfectly in line with what I would expect, but you think this is out of character?”

I think you should teach your daughter not to gossip about her cousins. This story wasn’t anything that had to do with her or you and no good was brought about by her telling you and then your wife passing it on to her sister.

If this child is difficult to get along with, your sil probably hears plenty of stories about her behavior from school or from friends/family. I can see why she would not be ready to hear another 3rd hand.

Perhaps you and your wife can see if being pleasant and unruffled around this girl will help improve her behavior. Certainly encouraging your own daughter to carry tales and think poorly of her cousin isn’t helping her.

 

[HouseArrest]

I think you should teach your daughter not to gossip about her cousins. This story wasn’t anything that had to do with her or you and no good was brought about by her telling you and then your wife passing it on to her sister.

If this child is difficult to get along with, your sil probably hears plenty of stories about her behavior from school or from friends/family. I can see why she would not be ready to hear another 3rd hand.

Perhaps you and your wife can see if being pleasant and unruffled around this girl will help improve her behavior. Certainly encouraging your own daughter to carry tales and think poorly of her cousin isn’t helping her.

Yeah it’s probably not a great idea to pass on a story about someone’s child that was told to you by… another child. I am not saying the telling child is lying, just that they see things through their own eyes and sometimes get the story wrong.

 

[Rico_S]

I think you should teach your daughter not to gossip about her cousins. This story wasn’t anything that had to do with her or you and no good was brought about by her telling you and then your wife passing it on to her sister.

To be honest the issue is a bit more complicated than this, I only simplified it b/c it was too long and was not relevant to the point of the thread. If it will ease your mind, my sister-in-law was the one who brought the topic up with my wife…it wasn’t like my wife went tattling. And my wife and her sister are very, very close…both would not hesitate to be open about each other’s children. I can appreciate your not wanting my wife to encourage my daughter to gossip, but that is not the case here. But thanks for you advice anywyay.

If this child is difficult to get along with, your sil probably hears plenty of stories about her behavior from school or from friends/family. I can see why she would not be ready to hear another 3rd hand.

Well, I doubt she hears tons of stories, to be honest. It isn’t like kids at school or other parents are going to say something to her…they are in highschool afterall. It is just beyond belief that she doesn’t recognize this behavior displayed at every family gathering. It is just so obvious. The whole “3rd hand” thing isn’t really relevant.

Perhaps you and your wife can see if being pleasant and unruffled around this girl will help improve her behavior.

We are. Well, my wife is. She is fantastic with her and always pushes to include her with the group. I will say my kids have learned for themselves, without our help, that “Sally” is always grumpy…so, at least the older ones sort of give her her space now.

Certainly encouraging your own daughter to carry tales and think poorly of her cousin isn’t helping her.

Wow. This is quite a jump. Where exactly did I say she was included in the conversation or that we speak poorly of her in front of our children? That is quite uncharitable. But leave it to the high post count CAFers to bring the hurt! Calling out sinners since '09…well done Sally!!

 

[Rico_S]

. And there’s the rub. I think we’re raising a generation of kids who don’t know how to overcome failure.

I believe this is huge!!! I read an article recently…I will try and find it…about how “grit” is important indicator of success. People who look at their failures, recognize them for what they are, and learn from them. and move on…those are key ingredients to greatness! If are kids never think they fail, they can never learn how to get better.

 

[Rico_S]

On the other hand, I see plenty of parents that when I tell them their kid is doing well and is a pleasure to have in class they roll their eyes and give me a “just you wait” look.

Haha I am that parent!! I have said that numerous times about my youngest. But teachers all insist that she is well behaved, respectful and a joy to have in class. (still don’t believe 'em ) I think you are right that kids react differently in different environments and so if you only see a kid interacting in a particular environment, you may not get the whole picture.

Perhaps my SIL’s child is great at home, but just moody and sour at school and most family functions. It is possible

 

[EasterJoy]

I think you should teach your daughter not to gossip about her cousins. This story wasn’t anything that had to do with her or you and no good was brought about by her telling you and then your wife passing it on to her sister.

If this child is difficult to get along with, your sil probably hears plenty of stories about her behavior from school or from friends/family. I can see why she would not be ready to hear another 3rd hand.

Perhaps you and your wife can see if being pleasant and unruffled around this girl will help improve her behavior. Certainly encouraging your own daughter to carry tales and think poorly of her cousin isn’t helping her.

Yes…if Grandma wants to notify the girl’s parents that their little darling has been a pill, she can do that. Otherwise, if she decides to tolerate the behavior, let her tolerate it.

If the girl has made herself unpleasant to be around, though, I wouldn’t feel some big need to spend time around her, as if it were some kind of favor to spend time with someone you don’t enjoy who does not enjoy you and does not treat you in a way that you expect from polite people. I’d be inclined to give her some time and space, and hope that the future brings changes that make you better company for each other.

 

[90Domer]

I believe this is huge!!! I read an article recently…I will try and find it…about how “grit” is important indicator of success. People who look at their failures, recognize them for what they are, and learn from them. and move on…those are key ingredients to greatness! If are kids never think they fail, they can never learn how to get better.

Here is an article my husband shared with me.

blog.acton.org/archives/47999-virtue-and-the-lake-wobegon-effect.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#.UQeIiHy9KSM

You post was interesting because recently I was given parenting advice by a 22 yo college senior (with no kinds, mind you) about how I was selling my kid short by NOT telling him he can “be whatever he wants to be.” I politely disagreed, but this kid persisted. I chalked it up to immaturity and the self-indulgent attitude of this generation. I am from the school of hard knocks, and my son is learning that same lesson from me and my husband.

 

[Rico_S]

Here is an article my husband shared with me.

blog.acton.org/archives/47999-virtue-and-the-lake-wobegon-effect.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#.UQeIiHy9KSM

You post was interesting because recently I was given parenting advice by a 22 yo college senior (with no kinds, mind you) about how I was selling my kid short by NOT telling him he can “be whatever he wants to be.” I politely disagreed, but this kid persisted. I chalked it up to immaturity and the self-indulgent attitude of this generation. I am from the school of hard knocks, and my son is learning that same lesson from me and my husband.

Thanks for the article…it is interesting. Not surprising that the numbers on how kids view themselves has steadily trended upward. I am sure that the number on how parents view their kids would follow that trend.

Here is a video from a commencement speech you might find interesting. “you are not special” is the theme.

youtube.com/watch?v=_lfxYhtf8o4