How will Pope Francis impact traditionalists?

[10thCrusader]

The title is somewhat self explanatory. Here are the ground rules, they come from one of the moderators.

"The following will not be tolerated:

1. Bashing the Holy Father
2. Passing judgment on him and his actions, because they don’t meet your approval or your preferences
3. Attempting to impose the model of previous popes on the new pope
4. Labeling the new pope
5. Speaking about his papacy in a negative way, without giving the man a chance
6. Or any other behavior that the moderators find unacceptable on a Catholic forum

Such posts will be removed and infractions given.

Please keep in mind that Catholic Answers is truly Catholic, faithful to the Holy See and respectful of the Holy Father."

With that out of the way, how do you think Pope Francis’s palpacy will affect traditional Catholicism? Please remain civil and objective.

Based on Item No. 6 above, I suppose it’s best not to say anything about Pope Francis. I suggest they close this thread immediately before anyone gets infraction points.

 

[Megan7]

The title is somewhat self explanatory. Here are the ground rules, they come from one of the moderators.

"The following will not be tolerated:

1. Bashing the Holy Father
2. Passing judgment on him and his actions, because they don’t meet your approval or your preferences
3. Attempting to impose the model of previous popes on the new pope
4. Labeling the new pope
5. Speaking about his papacy in a negative way, without giving the man a chance
6. Or any other behavior that the moderators find unacceptable on a Catholic forum

Such posts will be removed and infractions given.

Please keep in mind that Catholic Answers is truly Catholic, faithful to the Holy See and respectful of the Holy Father."

With that out of the way, how do you think Pope Francis’s palpacy will affect traditional Catholicism? Please remain civil and objective.

Thanks for the thread

 

[Servus_Tuus]

Let’s not be trapped in a blind defense of the Pope just because he is Pope. Catholic history is full of heroic stories of saints that have firmly corrected popes. There is nothing wrong with criticizing a pope on what one sees as a fault, so long as it is done in charity. But charity can be firm as well.

You can enjoy a ham sandwich today because of Saint Paul’s argument with Saint Peter. And how many times did our Lord himself correct Saint Peter?

And don’t forget fiery Saint Catherine of Siena. She saw that Pope Gregory XI put his love of France and his relatives ahead of what is good for the Body of Christ. When questioned by Gregory on how she knew of his sins she said, “I smelt the stink of the sins which flourish in the papal court while I was still at home in my town.” She said this directly to the Pope! This is one of the greatest saints!

I appreciate that Pope Francis wants to continue his simple way of life. However, if he goes out of his way to make a point about being “humble”, he may actually be expressing pride. That would be sinful.

Perhaps a great saint will be coming our way to aid Pope Francis. Perhaps it is you. Pray.

 

[JustaServant]

Based on Item No. 6 above, I suppose it’s best not to say anything about Pope Francis. I suggest they close this thread immediately before anyone gets infraction points.

Not to worry.
CAF posters are mature and are quite able to have an adult conversation.

 

[JReducation]

I believe that it’s possible to answer the question without being critical of the man.

Yesterday I had to correct a brother who made a remark about our new Holy Father. I won’t go into what he said. Suffice it to say that it warranted a correction from the superior.

I reminded him that man is created in the image and likeness of God. While on this earth, we will never know everything there is to know about God. Therefore, it is offensive to God to impose on any man our image of what he should be.

Every man is a shadow of his Creator. Therefore, in speaking about any man, we should not look to see if he measures up to our image of what he should be. Instead, we should look to every man to discern what God has to tell us about himself through his creation.

Our tendency is to be be critics rather to be critical thinkers. A critic is one who looks for flaws. A critical thinker is one who seeks understanding. The question asked by the OP must be approached not looking for the negative. Instead, we must take up the question open to whatever God wants to tell traditionalists about his plans for them through this man.

 

[Marie5890]

Let’s not be trapped in a blind defense of the Pope just because he is Pope. Catholic history is full of heroic stories of saints that have firmly corrected popes. There is nothing wrong with criticizing a pope on what one sees as a fault, so long as it is done in charity. But charity can be firm as well.

You can enjoy a ham sandwich today because of Saint Paul’s argument with Saint Peter. And how many times did our Lord himself correct Saint Peter?

And don’t forget fiery Saint Catherine of Siena. She saw that Pope Gregory XI put his love of France and his relatives ahead of what is good for the Body of Christ. When questioned by Gregory on how she knew of his sins she said, “I smelt the stink of the sins which flourish in the papal court while I was still at home in my town.” She said this directly to the Pope! This is one of the greatest saints!

I appreciate that Pope Francis wants to continue his simple way of life. However, if he goes out of his way to make a point about being “humble”, he may actually be expressing pride. That would be sinful.

Perhaps a great saint will be coming our way to aid Pope Francis. Perhaps it is you. Pray.

How are we to discern that he is “going out of his way” to make a point about being humble, from he continuing his simple way of life?

What is the difference, other than the intent of his heart and how are we to know what is in his heart?

 

[Vouthon]

I cannot understand why anyone would have an issue with Pope Francis thus far. He has only been in office since Wednesday night and already he is immensely popular with most Catholics. Look at the crowds outside the Vatican who adore his down-to-earth, kindly, warm, approachable, humorous manner.

Its like a breath of fresh air. Humility, simplicity, affability…

What’s not to like?

 

[Marie5890]

What I mean is, he doesn’t seem particularly interested in liturgy.

I agree that it doesn’t seem that it will be of major focus in his pontificate.

To watch him celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass (and I watched his celebration of it at St Anne’s this morning) he doesnt lack in reverent worship. It was very reverent and beautiful, even in it’s simplicity.

 

[Marie5890]

I cannot understand why anyone would have an issue with Pope Francis thus far. He has only been in office since Wednesday night and already he is immensely popular with most Catholics. Look at the crowds outside the Vatican who adore his down-to-earth, kindly, warm, approachable, humorous manner.

Its like a breath of fresh air. Humility, simplicity, affability…

What’s not to like?

It’s a fair statement that there are some faithful Catholics who like a greater sense of the grandeur and elaborate when it comes to the Church as a way of giving honor and glory to God.

It’s really not either/or situation however. Both give honor and glory if the inner disposition is of right intent. The simple and the elaborate.

Pope Francis gives praise honor and glory in a more simply form of beauty.

 

[Vouthon]

It’s a fair statement that there are some faithful Catholics who like a greater sense of the grandeur and elaborate when it comes to the Church as a way of giving honor and glory to God.

It’s really not either/or situation however. Both give honor and glory if the inner disposition is of right intent. The simple and the elaborate.

Pope Francis gives praise honor and glory in a more simply form of beauty.

On this we are agreed sister Marie

 

[Sirach2]

I cannot understand why anyone would have an issue with Pope Francis thus far. He has only been in office since Wednesday night and already he is immensely popular with most Catholics. Look at the crowds outside the Vatican who adore his down-to-earth, kindly, warm, approachable, humorous manner.

Its like a breath of fresh air. Humility, simplicity, affability…

What’s not to like?

I read an interesting article that showed the overwhelming percentage of the Cardinal electors’ votes, which clearly demonstrates a most powerful move of the Holy Spirit.

By the fourth ballot on Wednesday — the fifth since the conclave had begun — Bergoglio passed the threshold of 77 votes on his way to upwards of 90 votes out of 115. It was just before 7 p.m.

 

[Vouthon]

I read an interesting article that showed the overwhelming percentage of the Cardinal electors’ votes, which clearly demonstrates a most powerful move of the Holy Spirit.

By the fourth ballot on Wednesday — the fifth since the conclave had begun — Bergoglio passed the threshold of 77 votes on his way to upwards of 90 votes out of 115. It was just before 7 p.m.

Incredible Sirach. A true consensus!

 

[Sirach2]

Laity still can’t “force” a bishop to let them have the EF in their diocese.

Most assuredly, they cannot exert force.

It has been said that the pope may bind as well as unbind. What would be the response if Pope Francis ‘unbound’ the EF making the OF the universal rite of the Church, uniting all of us in one liturgical rite? Has anyone noticed the disunity and division that the SP has caused? Catholics against Catholics, especially in this subforum and other traditional websites. If there was ever a need to bring peace and unity among our own Catholics, I see this as a concern. Would traditionalists rebel or submit?

When Paul VI set forth the “Novus Ordo” many years ago and our parishes began to instruct us gradually in implementing the changes, I would guess that 95% of Catholics gave filial submission to the direction the Holy Spirit was leading the Church in the Council. Their first priority above all else was to reform the liturgy. It has been a continual grievance to me that this division has created chaos, rather than unity. May the Lord give us His guidance in this regard.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

It has been said that the pope may bind as well as unbind. What would be the response if Pope Francis ‘unbound’ the EF making the OF the universal rite of the Church, uniting all of us in one liturgical rite? Has anyone noticed the disunity and division that the SP has caused? Catholics against Catholics, especially in this subforum and other traditional websites. If there was ever a need to bring peace and unity among our own Catholics, I see this as a concern. Would traditionalists rebel or submit?

I have also been wondering about this.
You are a braver soul than I bringing it up here!!

I would be very interested to hear what people think about this, especially on this sub-forum.

And Sirach2, I think we better “duck & cover”!

 

[Sirach2]

I have also been wondering about this.
You are a braver soul than I bringing it up here!!

I would be very interested to hear what people think about this, especially on this sub-forum.

And Sirach2, I think we better “duck & cover”!

See my new thread about “Be not afraid” etc. May God give us wings to walk in truth.

 

[Spudbynight]

I personally don’t think that the holy father is going to have much of an impact on us traddies.

As others have said he doesn’t seem to be too focused on the liturgy. As the former Byzantine Rite ordinary for Argentina he is willing to celebrate Mass in more than the Novus Ordo. I think it is clear where he own personal liturgical preferences lie but I haven’t read anything from him that I have felt was overtly hostile towards the EF or the more solemn OF.

My hope is that we have the pope we need rather than the pope we want. Pope Benedict XVI gave us back the EF and introduced the whole concept of a hermeneutic of continuity.

My own personal feeling is that Pope Francis has another calling. Pope Benedict didn’t appeal to the less orthodox Catholics in the world. Those who want abortion, divorce, contraception etc etc etc. If Pope Francis can appeal to the “children of the spirit of Vatican II” and get them to accept Church teaching then that will be a huge success.

I believe abortion is the single greatest evil in the world today. It is hard to push that message into the greater world when so many Catholics are pro abortion.

If I was presented with a choice by God between the EF and the end of abortion I wouldn’t need to think twice on that.

 

[Debora123]

how do you think Pope Francis’s palpacy will affect traditional Catholicism?.

Hopefully by making them less traditionalist.

 

[Tobias22]

It doesn’t seem like liturgy will be a focus of the new Pope. One way or the other. So I don’t think he will impact the EF much if at all.

The only thing I could see, given his emphasis on helping the poor, is perhaps preferring rather than EF communities build their own churches dedicated only to the EF, he encourages instead that EF communities worship out of existing churches. many of which have seen big declines in mass attendance and could certainly make room for an EF Mass on Sundays.

 

[TEPO]

As someone else here recently wrote, Pope Emeritus Benedict’s Motu Proprio “Summorum Pontificorum” actually advanced a bottom-up approach to the promotion of the EF, i.e., traditional believers could “force” their bishop to let them have the EF in their diocese. Before that, it was kind of a “gift” or privilege the bishops bestowed on the faithful if they were so inclined.
So I believe this grassroots movement will continue, even though the Holy Father will most likely not make the promotion of the EF a main point in his service. He needn’t, either. God has probably other things in mind for him.

This is a good point!

The framework for the traditional loving Catholics has been laid out. There is no reason why liturgical progress cannot continue in a more traditional manner for those who want it -thanks to pope Benedict E.

Perhaps God wanted pope Benedict E. for that purpose specifically, and now that it has been fulfilled, God now is prepared to carry on a new mission with pope Francis.

We should all be thankful that God is willing to meet the needs of His people… All of his people.

 

[TEPO]

It doesn’t seem like liturgy will be a focus of the new Pope. One way or the other. So I don’t think he will impact the EF much if at all.

The only thing I could see, given his emphasis on helping the poor, is perhaps preferring rather than EF communities build their own churches dedicated only to the EF, he encourages instead that EF communities worship out of existing churches. many of which have seen big declines in mass attendance and could certainly make room for an EF Mass on Sundays.

Perhaps pope Francis mission by God is not a liturgical one at all. Perhaps that mission has been fulfilled.

I think, personally, that the mission of pope Francis is to rebuild the church. I envision a decline in atheism, relativism and deism. I suspect vast increases in Catholicism, and I’m talking about orthodox Catholicism.