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T.A.Stobie_SFO
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I also have thought about building a small Catholic town (which also would be a non-profit corporation). My one problem is a lack of funding. Anyone have a spare $100,000,000 I can have for this purpose?
How would a "Catholic town" differ from any other town surrounding it?
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seabird3579
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You’re in my prayers, Alan. Keep us posted.
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MrS
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A Collier rep and the president of the university were both on Fox News yesterday… deny, deny, deny… all they would stress is that is was going to be " just like any other town".
I think they may be feeling the heat on this latest daily coverage.
and… don’t let anyone try to say that the goal does not includes much financial profit.
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seabird3579
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T.A.Stobie:
…I’ll check my back pocket…
But don’t forget how Mother Angelica founded EWTN, nor how Mother Teresa founded all of her convents…all by Faith in God to bring it to pass.
You should read Mother Angelica’s biography written by Raymond Arroyo, her **faith ** will absolutely amaze you. And she did not have *dime one * when she started.
…I’ll check my back pocket…But don’t forget how Mother Angelica founded EWTN, nor how Mother Teresa founded all of her convents…all by Faith in God to bring it to pass.
You should read Mother Angelica’s biography written by Raymond Arroyo, her **faith ** will absolutely amaze you. And she did not have *dime one * when she started.
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GregoryPalamas
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I wished that they hadn’t denied. Nevertheless, are you suggesting that there is something wrong with profit? I’d be shocked and disappointed if there wasn’t some profit in this.
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jennifer101
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What’s the big deal? The Amish have been doing it forever. I’d love a Catholic town, a Jewish town… etc… I’d go visit each one and expect to learn a lot about the individual religions that way. This might be a good way to develop understanding.
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GregoryPalamas
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Excellent point. On the Byzantine Catholic board we just finished a discussion about the possibility of starting an Eastern Catholic village. So far, no one has the resources to do it, but it is a wonderful idea. It is an excellent way of establishing a colony of heaven on earth. It is possible to hide from responsibilities in a monastery I suppose but that is not the purpose of a monastery. Similarly it is possible, I suppose, to hide in a city established for Catholic civilization. That is not its purpose. The world is desparately in need of seeing how God intends His kingdom to operate. This city has the chance of doing that.
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jennifer101
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I’ve been trying to understand eastern and orthodox Catholic … stuff. I don’t quite get it. Here I am, 36 yrs old and I never realized there was this whole other realm of Catholics. Can you point me to a comprehensible explanation of the differences? I’ve looked on line a lot this week and most of what I find in the way of explanations- leaves me more confused. Thanks for any help.
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GregoryPalamas
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Jennifer,
Thanks for asking. For the moment we seem like a hybrid in many peoples’ eyes. Actually we are a return to what the Church was during her first 1,000 years. We seem odd for a couple of reasons at least. First, We are small and hence pulled and prodded from both the Orthodox and the Latin Catholic sides. Many RC’s wonder why we aren’t exactly like them. Many Orthodox criticize us for not being exactly like them. Second, We are having to reclaim a patrimony that had been lost for a very long time. We make plenty of mistakes, but unlike our two parents we are out front in our attempts to be true to the first 1,000 years.
When our work is completed everyone will know it. We are Orthodox in Communion with Rome. When our task is complete we will still be Orthodox in Communion with Rome but we will cease to exist as a separate entity.
See www.byzcath.org and www.byzantinecatholic.com for further information.
CDL
Thanks for asking. For the moment we seem like a hybrid in many peoples’ eyes. Actually we are a return to what the Church was during her first 1,000 years. We seem odd for a couple of reasons at least. First, We are small and hence pulled and prodded from both the Orthodox and the Latin Catholic sides. Many RC’s wonder why we aren’t exactly like them. Many Orthodox criticize us for not being exactly like them. Second, We are having to reclaim a patrimony that had been lost for a very long time. We make plenty of mistakes, but unlike our two parents we are out front in our attempts to be true to the first 1,000 years.
When our work is completed everyone will know it. We are Orthodox in Communion with Rome. When our task is complete we will still be Orthodox in Communion with Rome but we will cease to exist as a separate entity.
See www.byzcath.org and www.byzantinecatholic.com for further information.
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jennifer101
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Thanks. I’ll give this a look tomorrow when I’m rested! Does your church say the Communion host has to have gluten? Are you pretty much in agreement with most or all of the traditions of the Cathlolic Church? I’m not looking for a divorce or same sex marriage or women priests or abortion… or anything directly contrary to the teachings in the bible. I am looking more for a bible based interpretation of our faith. Less man made traditions. I’d lean more towards Lutherenism except I really like talking to the various saints and asking them to pray for me.
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Orual
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It seems to me that if Tom Monaghan really wanted to build a truly Catholic University and a new city that would be free from Pornography, birth control, etc. he could have contracted with one of the nation’s 300 Indian Reservations, many of which have large Catholic populations in the first place. Indian Reservations are sovereign nations and would therefore be free from any pressure or legal action from the ACLU. It seems like he was just asking for trouble down in Florida.
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GregoryPalamas
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I will ask. I still have not heard from them. That possibility seems fascinating though it had not occurred until you posted it.
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Vintagecoils
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To Gregory Palamas,
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It is my vision to start a Orthodox community. I had heard about how groups are brought over through imigration and they cluster in areas. The Isralies have gone to other countries seeking out jewish people to migrate to isreal. So I said why can't I. I am more an aggrarian type my self and very conservative but I will be making every effort to draw Orthodox into an area where I live to start a parish. Thats how it was done in the old days. I live in a large Catholic area now. Many protestant churches are losing people. ONe day I saw an add on the internet of a Converted Irish priest seeking a Orthodox parish. I think there are many out there that would come to create a community that has Orthodox in numbers to work live and raise families. Once I get a handle on immigration and a good since of the available properties and may even go for the support of the state gov i will start a campaign. For example, The state of New York is keen on keeping their aggriculture lands. Its is a vital resource. They stated talks several years back with Mennoite groups that are under pressure in other states. They came to an aggreement and are inviting them to migrate to the state of New York to take over alot of abandoned farms to settle. They are working with local communities to accomadate their religious request. They have made aggreements reference schoolling issues an other items particular to them. So it is not so far fetched that a religious community won't be able to obtain the legal rights to exist. But like a Indian reservation, any member who chooses to live outside of the agrements is then on their own and subject to local laws and restrictions. The question is would the average American catholic be able to submit to the religious community fully or need to still retain there individual freedoms they obtain from the secular world.
To prevent back sliding, ideally one person or corporation type set up would have to own the land(like the old coal companies of the past or the military base model) and therefore be free to establish the standards by which the community runs. But that would take one of us winning the lottery, inherit a fortune or find a backer that was in Christ and commited. Under these conditions there is not much outside lawyers can do. The key is not asking for government financing.
Well I pray and still working out the plan.
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BillP
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Do you have a source for this? Something about sounds not quite right. I am unaware of ANY “abandoned farms” in New York. Additionally, even if there were abandoned farms they wouldn’t cede to the state until their taxes were delinquent, at which time they would cede to the county not the state. Finally, delinquent tax properties are, by statute, sold at public auction, not in state brokered side deals with religious groups.
Is there any doubt in your mind? 85% of Catholics practice ABC and only 40% go to mass weekly and you think the “average” Catholic is going to “submit” to your religious community?
No the key is not violating people’s civil rights. In the US there simply isn’t any way to legally coerce to others follow the dictats of any particular religion. Folks can voluntarily join your community, they can even sign all their property over to the community to be held in some form of common ownership. There’s nothing to stop you from setting up your own little “Catholic” version of Koresh’s Branch Davidian compound. What you won’t be able to do legally is prevent “back-sliding” in the form of folks leaving to pursue other interests. They will probably even be able to recover their property.
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seabird3579
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Well…I don’t know if “backsliding” could be prevented in any case, but what we need to bear in mind is that the people who are attracted to a Catholic town, are ‘dyed in the wool’ Catholics. They won’t typically be people who vasilate or don’t know their faith thoroughly. So only a very small chance exists for “backsliding”; besides that’s what Confession is for
Having said that, I agree with Vintagecoils in that, someone or a “corporate” someone would have to buy the town (and it can be done, I see towns for sale across the country quite often) or, they would have to buy a large amount of acreage that was free to be developed residentially and agriculturally.
I do believe an “owner” has the right to determine the “rules” regulating the “tenants” don’t they? Don’t Home Owners Associations do this all the time with their subdivisions? I don’t know about your state, but they do in California. Heck, some have in their “rules” that you can’t even fly the American flag outside your own dwelling!
Where is the ACLU when you need them? :whacky:
Having said that, I agree with Vintagecoils in that, someone or a “corporate” someone would have to buy the town (and it can be done, I see towns for sale across the country quite often) or, they would have to buy a large amount of acreage that was free to be developed residentially and agriculturally.
I do believe an “owner” has the right to determine the “rules” regulating the “tenants” don’t they? Don’t Home Owners Associations do this all the time with their subdivisions? I don’t know about your state, but they do in California. Heck, some have in their “rules” that you can’t even fly the American flag outside your own dwelling!
Where is the ACLU when you need them? :whacky:
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GregoryPalamas
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Bill,
Perhaps I’m missing something. You seem rather hostile to this plan and I don’t understand why. I think it’s realistic to imagine that the dream represented here will begin to break down after the first generation, but not all such communities have. I understand that many would not be interested in such a community. What I don’t understand is what appears to be hostility. No one is forced to go to such a community. If it turns out to be horrid then people will move away. There’s nothing in the vision that has much to do with Koresh type thinking, unless you think Sts. Benedict, Basil, Gregory the Great, Augustine, Bernard, Theresa, etc. etc. were Koresh types.
CDL
Perhaps I’m missing something. You seem rather hostile to this plan and I don’t understand why. I think it’s realistic to imagine that the dream represented here will begin to break down after the first generation, but not all such communities have. I understand that many would not be interested in such a community. What I don’t understand is what appears to be hostility. No one is forced to go to such a community. If it turns out to be horrid then people will move away. There’s nothing in the vision that has much to do with Koresh type thinking, unless you think Sts. Benedict, Basil, Gregory the Great, Augustine, Bernard, Theresa, etc. etc. were Koresh types.
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buffalo
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Founder of Catholic town backtracks
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. - Domino’s Pizza founder Thomas S. Monaghan, who is helping to bankroll the birth of a Florida town and university, backtracked Friday from comments that he would like the community to be governed by strict Catholic principles. His ideas about barring pornography and birth control, he said, apply only to the Catholic university.
Both the town of Ave Maria and its Ave Maria University, the first Catholic university to be built in the United States in four decades, are set to open next year about 25 miles east of Naples in southwest Florida.
more…
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. - Domino’s Pizza founder Thomas S. Monaghan, who is helping to bankroll the birth of a Florida town and university, backtracked Friday from comments that he would like the community to be governed by strict Catholic principles. His ideas about barring pornography and birth control, he said, apply only to the Catholic university.
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"There are a lot of misconceptions," Monaghan said Friday.more…
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MrS
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buffalo said:
As I noted in post #23, so did the university president, and a representative from Barton Collier on the morning Fox program.
At least it “appears” that this time Monaghan is listening to the critics (name removed by moderator)ut and not just ignoring their points of view as having no value because they differ from his.
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buffalo
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Yeah, but since its his money he can set it up any way he wants. Gated communities are sort of a precedent for this.
If people like his concept and move there in droves then who are we to say we need all points of view to be considered.
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stinkcat_14
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My guess is that there is a lot of farms for sale in upstate New York. The state of New York is just acting as sort of a broker linking up mennonites with people who want to sell their farms.
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